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Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

The fiscal situation... and the direness of it.

Well he has without question told the residents of WI how dire the fiscal situation is. He however appears to not be taking responsibility for it, instead exempting supporting unions. If the situation is as dire as it is, all must take a cut.
 
Well he has without question told the residents of WI how dire the fiscal situation is. He however appears to not be taking responsibility for it, instead exempting supporting unions. If the situation is as dire as it is, all must take a cut.

Agreed 100%! Unfortunately with the bite size media that most people ingest, most people never GET to the crux of an issue. I am just very thankful that my statesmen are putting up the fight that they are.
 
Just a small FYI for all. The unions don't have as much power as some would have you believe.

What is the QEO? | Collective Bargaining | Wisconsin Education Association Council

Text from above link

"The Wisconsin Legislature enacted the Qualified Economic Offer (QEO) law in 1993. The QEO law - and the revenue controls that restrict the amount of money school districts can raise - were enacted in order to limit school spending. Those measures were combined with a commitment that the state would provide two-thirds of the costs of schools on a statewide average (this figure varies by community).

Under the QEO, school boards have the option of unilaterally limiting pay and benefits for K-12 teachers so long as the combined increase is 3.8%. The law allows school districts to avoid true collective bargaining regarding compensation and important school quality issues.

As rising health insurance costs have eaten up most of the 3.8% total compensation target, teacher salaries in Wisconsin have stagnated and even declined. As a result, Wisconsin teacher salaries fell 6.8% from 1997-98 to 2007-08, when adjusted for inflation. For 2007-08, Wisconsin's teacher salaries ranked 21th in the nation at $49,051, down from 20th the year before, and below the national average of $52,308."

As you see, this law actually limits the power of unions. I think we can all agree a balance of power is a good thing.
 
Midwest Lib has pointed it out already but the crux of the issue with what Governor Walker is doing is not the necessity for members of the teachers union to increase the amount they would pay into their pensions, but rather that he is trying to restrict their collective bargaining rights in future negotiations. In fact the teachers' union was more than willing to reform their pension plans to save Wisconsin from having to layoff teachers. It all goes back to Governor Walker's desire to strip them of their bargaining rights.

Add to it that he has exempted unions such as the police, firefighters, and state troopers, all supporters of his during the past election, and it's looking more and more like political retribution than trying to save the state money. If things were as dire as the governor is claiming, then no union should be excluded during this time. Surely you can agree with that.

As a New Jersey resident I'm sure you can sure answer this. When Governor Christie was battling the problem of state pensions did he move to roll back a union's collective bargaining rights? I have followed what he is doing, very impressive indeed, but to my knowledge he did not take it that far. Please let me know if I'm wrong.



I think its a different situation. Ill get back to it after the weekend... I tend to be very spotty on weekends. Remibd me if i dont address by monday.
 
These teachers are showing the underbelly of Union thuggery right now to the nation. They should be fired, and their positions refilled under new terms. Public sectors have NO business being unionized in the first place.


j-mac
 
These teachers are showing the underbelly of Union thuggery right now to the nation. They should be fired, and their positions refilled under new terms. Public sectors have NO business being unionized in the first place.


j-mac

God, don't i know it! All those damn scumbag teachers! They are thugs for fighting for the same right given to them over 50 years ago, while agreeing to pay more into their pensions, in the amount necessary to get the state on budget? Most thugs I know are certainly the compromising type!

I understand that you don't like unions, which is why you live in a right-to-work state. The fact of the matter is if you want to dissolve the unions, don't do it by tagging it as the only fiscal responsible thing to do, when union members are willing to pay there share. It's a disingenuous bill, at best.
 
The extremist right win in this nation has ALWAYS hated unions because it gives the common working man power. If you are a right winger, the one thing you NEVER want to see is common working people acquiring power. That is a great threat against you and against your agenda.

So now the Republican conservatives have looked at demographic projections and they can read the census as well as anyone else. They see that the backbone and 90%+ of their party - the white person - is decreasing in numbers and in power. By 2050 they even could be a minority of less than 50%. So how do they retain control in a democratic republic? Simple - they take away the right to vote from their opponents. They take away the unions from workers. They demonize minorities who tend to vote for the hated enemy. And the key to the door to all this is the Citizens United decision and the 2010 election results in an off year election when democrats foolishly stayed home.

That is what you are seeing in Wisconsin. This attack on unions and on workers is part of a larger strategy to repeal the political progressive measures of the 20th century. And all you right wingers here are salivating at the prospect.

I hope you like the taste of your masters hand.... or worse ... because its going to be a long struggle back to a rational nation.
 
Well he has without question told the residents of WI how dire the fiscal situation is. He however appears to not be taking responsibility for it, instead exempting supporting unions. If the situation is as dire as it is, all must take a cut.

Please go back and read how the right wing governor CREATED this so called crisis. This is a manufactured crisis designed to crush unions and working people.


Wisconsin's new Republican governor has framed his assault on public worker's collective bargaining rights as a needed measure of fiscal austerity during tough times.

The reality is radically different. Unlike true austerity measures -- service rollbacks, furloughs, and other temporary measures that cause pain but save money -- rolling back worker's bargaining rights by itself saves almost nothing on its own. But Walker's doing it anyhow, to knock down a barrier and allow him to cut state employee benefits immediately.

Mad In Madison: Wisconsin Workers Protest Against Governor's Budget Proposals
Furthermore, this broadside comes less than a month after the state's fiscal bureau -- the Wisconsin equivalent of the Congressional Budget Office -- concluded that Wisconsin isn't even in need of austerity measures, and could conclude the fiscal year with a surplus. In fact, they say that the current budget shortfall is a direct result of tax cut policies Walker enacted in his first days in office.

"Walker was not forced into a budget repair bill by circumstances beyond he control," says Jack Norman, research director at the Institute for Wisconsin Future -- a public interest think tank. "He wanted a budget repair bill and forced it by pushing through tax cuts... so he could rush through these other changes."

"The state of Wisconsin has not reached the point at which austerity measures are needed," Norman adds.

In a Wednesday op-ed, the Capitol Times of Madison picked up on this theme.

In its Jan. 31 memo to legislators on the condition of the state's budget, the Fiscal Bureau determined that the state will end the year with a balance of $121.4 million.
To the extent that there is an imbalance -- Walker claims there is a $137 million deficit -- it is not because of a drop in revenues or increases in the cost of state employee contracts, benefits or pensions. It is because Walker and his allies pushed through $140 million in new spending for special-interest groups in January.

You can read the fiscal bureaus report here (PDF). It holds that "more than half" of the new shortfall comes from three of Walker's initiatives:

$25 million for an economic development fund for job creation, which still holds $73 million because of anemic job growth.
$48 million for private health savings accounts -- a perennial Republican favorite.
$67 million for a tax incentive plan that benefits employers, but at levels too low to spur hiring.
In essence, public workers are being asked to pick up the tab for this agenda. "The provisions in his bill do two things simultaneously," Norman says. "They remove bargaining rights, and having accomplished that, make changes in the benefit packages." That's how Walker's plan saves money. And when it's all said and done, these workers will have lost their bargaining rights going forward in perpetuity.

Instead of facts, you rabid right wing anti-unionists get your belief system from garbage comic book caricatures of unions and working people. No wonder somebody here like Erod says such outright lies as the average Wisconsin teacher makes over $100K per year and when shown to be a LIAR does not even have the decency to apologize for the slur. Its worse than pathetic.
 
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Please go back and read how the right wing governor CREATED this so called crisis. This is a manufactured crisis designed to crush unions and working people.

.

Unfortunately, you are wrong on this one. The economic situation is accurate. The idea that Walker created it is being perpetrated by Rachel Maddow, most notably, though others have made the same observation.

PolitiFact Wisconsin | Rachel Maddow says Wisconsin is on track to have a budget surplus this year

Now, that having been said, we should focus on the main issue rather than conspiracy theories.
 
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Please go back and read how the right wing governor CREATED this so called crisis. This is a manufactured crisis designed to crush unions and working people.




Instead of facts, you rabid right wing anti-unionists get your belief system from garbage comic book caricatures of unions and working people. No wonder somebody here like Erod says such outright lies as the average Wisconsin teacher makes over $100K per year and when shown to be a LIAR does not even have the decency to apologize for the slur. Its worse than pathetic.

During the 2011 and 2012 period, WI is projected, and has been since Doyle was governor, to be in a 3-4 billion dollar deficit. To claim spending is not a problem or there really isn't fiscal problems or the current governor created the fiscal problems is completely diconnected from reality.
 
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The extremist right win in this nation has ALWAYS hated unions because it gives the common working man power. If you are a right winger, the one thing you NEVER want to see is common working people acquiring power. That is a great threat against you and against your agenda.

So now the Republican conservatives have looked at demographic projections and they can read the census as well as anyone else. They see that the backbone and 90%+ of their party - the white person - is decreasing in numbers and in power. By 2050 they even could be a minority of less than 50%. So how do they retain control in a democratic republic? Simple - they take away the right to vote from their opponents. They take away the unions from workers. They demonize minorities who tend to vote for the hated enemy. And the key to the door to all this is the Citizens United decision and the 2010 election results in an off year election when democrats foolishly stayed home.

That is what you are seeing in Wisconsin. This attack on unions and on workers is part of a larger strategy to repeal the political progressive measures of the 20th century. And all you right wingers here are salivating at the prospect.

I hope you like the taste of your masters hand.... or worse ... because its going to be a long struggle back to a rational nation.
Actually we just want people to be able to decide for themselves without being strong-armed by union thugs, whether or not they want to even be in a union. It has nothing do with a war on the working class. I'm not rich and I'm not in a union. If unions are so great, why the opposition to secret ballots? We also believe that if unions strike, others have the right to come in and work. Unions have a history of violence and organized criminal activity. I support busting unions wherever and whenever possible.
 
If ever there was an issue that shows why Gov't Employees should be denied the ability to Unionize, it is this.
 
If ever there was an issue that shows why Gov't Employees should be denied the ability to Unionize, it is this.

Almost enough to be considered a real response. Want to tell us what about this issue makes it so obvious that public employees should not be allowed to unionize? Or would you care to stick to vague talking points contributing nothing to the debate at hand?
 
Good for Scott Walker. People act as if he is destroying unions and these teachers are going to suffer irreperable harm from this. Its not as if he's shutting down the unions, its not like these teacher won't receive pay increases that line up with the normal CPI. He's looking at the budget, promised to take on unions, got elected by the people of Wisconsin and is now fulfilling his obligation to those who voted for him. That's how a representative republic should work, deal with it. The shame is that the state democrats in WI can't. Nobody ever walked out on their sorry budget crafting asses when Doyle was in power, along with the state legislature in the hands of the democrats. Sure, there were delays and obstructions to certain issues, but those were handled without leaving and bascially pitching a fit. It makes me ashamed of my home state for sure. North Carolina(where I live now) is facing a similar budget shortfall this year, and has a republican held legislature for the first time in 100 years IIRC. Will be interesting to see how this governor and legislature work on that issue compared to Wisconsin. I am sure they are watching it unfold. I know they have put education under the microscope as well, not sure what they are looking at cutting though.

This could all be solved if people would adopt my "Fair cut" plan, whereby all taxpayer funded programs receive a 5-10% cut in funding. That way, no program is eliminated uneccessarily, nor is any bias or favoritism shown towards an industry or group.
 
Almost enough to be considered a real response. Want to tell us what about this issue makes it so obvious that public employees should not be allowed to unionize? Or would you care to stick to vague talking points contributing nothing to the debate at hand?

Students throughout Wisconsin have been unable to go to school for the past few days.

FDR summed it up nicely:

“Meticulous attention should be paid to the special relations and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the Government….The process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service....a strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to obstruct the operations of government until their demands are satisfied. Such action looking toward the paralysis of government by those who have sworn to support it is unthinkable and intolerable.”
 
Almost enough to be considered a real response. Want to tell us what about this issue makes it so obvious that public employees should not be allowed to unionize? Or would you care to stick to vague talking points contributing nothing to the debate at hand?

Because Unions have gone form being entities to force bad employers from changing their ways into entities that exist to extract as much out of the employer as they can, up to and including causing businesses to fail. Take that into Gov't, which tends to run inefficiently as a general rule, wasteful with money even, and what do you get? Chaos. Oh sure, it starts out nice and fun, but over time the Unions DEMAND more and more and Gov't being run by politicians that need reelection money and voter bases to stay in power bow to the demands until eventually the Gov't in question becomes over burdened. And instead of the Unions understanding this, they feel ENTITLED to the money and benefits until it starts falling apart and cuts are seriously discussed. Then the Unions bring out their members, call the media and protest in the streets.

Wisconsin can ill afford the continued burdens economically, and the Unions are being UNREASONABLE in their demands. Something has to give. If the Unions win... the state goes belly up. It's like a parasite that doesn't care about the host it's killing, just as long as it gets what it wants RIGHT NOW!
 
Because Unions have gone form being entities to force bad employers from changing their ways into entities that exist to extract as much out of the employer as they can, up to and including causing businesses to fail. Take that into Gov't, which tends to run inefficiently as a general rule, wasteful with money even, and what do you get? Chaos. Oh sure, it starts out nice and fun, but over time the Unions DEMAND more and more and Gov't being run by politicians that need reelection money and voter bases to stay in power bow to the demands until eventually the Gov't in question becomes over burdened. And instead of the Unions understanding this, they feel ENTITLED to the money and benefits until it starts falling apart and cuts are seriously discussed. Then the Unions bring out their members, call the media and protest in the streets.

Wisconsin can ill afford the continued burdens economically, and the Unions are being UNREASONABLE in their demands. Something has to give. If the Unions win... the state goes belly up. It's like a parasite that doesn't care about the host it's killing, just as long as it gets what it wants RIGHT NOW!

You say something has to give, but the fact of the matter is the unions are WILLING TO GIVE IT. This is about disguising a union bust as a budget crisis.
 
And I will point out again, as I'm not sure how far back you've read Mr V., but a lot of this is about favoritsm. The public safety unions, the same who supported walker in his election, go untouched while Walker touts fiscal responsibility and "everyone has to give" rhetoric.
 
You say something has to give, but the fact of the matter is the unions are WILLING TO GIVE IT. This is about disguising a union bust as a budget crisis.

Really? I don't think the states demands are that burdensome. Of course, you're a liberal, I'm a conservative so our ideas of what's right is going to be opposite.
 
Really? I don't think the states demands are that burdensome. Of course, you're a liberal, I'm a conservative so our ideas of what's right is going to be opposite.

So do you find it shady that the public safety unions are exempt?
 
Mr v.,

Midwestlib is not your stereotypical what libs see. He's not parroting media matters Nor is he a blind partisan.

We would be wise to consider his positions no matter how much we may disagree.

I disagree with almost everything thus far but his honesty and pov is refreshing for both sides to see. He presents it without ego and hes willing to listen to oir side.
 
Mr v.,

Midwestlib is not your stereotypical what libs see. He's not parroting media matters Nor is he a blind partisan.

We would be wise to consider his positions no matter how much we may disagree.

I disagree with almost everything thus far but his honesty and pov is refreshing for both sides to see. He presents it without ego and hes willing to listen to oir side.

If you notice my friend, I am taking my time to respond to him and NOT be a jerk about it. ;) I always give new folks a chance. I merely pointed out that our two differing views on the issue lies in the fact we have different POV's when it comes to political issues maybe a reason we see the issue so differently.
 
You say something has to give, but the fact of the matter is the unions are WILLING TO GIVE IT. This is about disguising a union bust as a budget crisis.

Really? Do you actually know the facts? The unions are only being asked to contribute 12% to their Medical insurance coverage...the private sector contributes 20% or better. The unions are being asked to pay 5% into their own pension plans, the private sector averages well over 7%. There is no demand for a decrease in pay, they still will be averaging more than 30% more than their private sector counter parts. But this legislation will stop the laying off of over 5 thousand public employees if the Union would concede these to small demands.

But....it was just weeks ago, the left was preaching to the right about being CIVIL as leadership talk does effect the population, just today we see signs calling the governor of Wis. Hitler, and a Terrorist, the end of democracy (Which I kind of agree with if the union constitutions are allowed to be superior to the oath these PUBLIC SERVANT take to defend our national CONSTITUTION) while the children are being denied an education...yet the left continually TALKS about the value of education. Where is the Prez...chastising all the hate filled angry speech, as he did only weeks ago...nope, He comes out and says this is an attack on UNIONS. When in reality the BUDGET must be saved or there will be 5000 fewer UNION MEMBERS with jobs shortly. The hypocrisy is so thick you can cut it with a knife.
 
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