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Obama's FY 2012 Budget

Gill said:
Whatever they did, seemed to work since interest rates, unemployment, and inflation rates ALL came down during Reagan's term in office.

Unemployment had a brief blip up, but soon came down and continued to decline during his term in office.. Obama's policies haven't touched the out-of-control unemployment.
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If you haven't noticed a stagflation recession is different than a high unemployment/deflation scenario.

Frankly, I don't think any policies will change unemployment, nor should they. Europe has always had ~8% unemployment. We've been lucky with a low NRU, but maybe the time for it to change is now.
 
iamitter said:
If you haven't noticed a stagflation recession is different than a high unemployment/deflation scenario.

Frankly, I don't think any policies will change unemployment, nor should they. Europe has always had ~8% unemployment. We've been lucky with a low NRU, but maybe the time for it to change is now.
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Ahh, so you want us to be just like Europe ???
 
Gill said:
Ahh, so you want us to be just like Europe ???
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You know, I'm interested to where you got that from my comment. You grasped at a portion of what I said and blew it way out of proportion.

I think our NRU is going to stay at ~7% for at least the next decade.
 
Gill said:
Whatever they did, seemed to work since interest rates, unemployment, and inflation rates ALL came down during Reagan's term in office.

Unemployment had a brief blip up, but soon came down and continued to decline during his term in office.. Obama's policies haven't touched the out-of-control unemployment.
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If anything Obama's funky math isn't actually showing the real numbers.


j-mac
 
iamitter said:
You know, I'm interested to where you got that from my comment. You grasped at a portion of what I said and blew it way out of proportion.

I think our NRU is going to stay at ~7% for at least the next decade.
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He said that because you compared our numbers to that of Europe, then said that our numbers were low, and that somehow we should be more in line with Europe as far as employment numbers go, paraphrasing ofcourse.

But I don't buy the current numbers being doled out to the public either, our real unemployment in this country if you consider all the factors is closer to 20% than it is 9%

j-mac
 
iamitter said:
You know, I'm interested to where you got that from my comment. You grasped at a portion of what I said and blew it way out of proportion.

I think our NRU is going to stay at ~7% for at least the next decade.
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As j-mac pointed out, it was obvious from your post. I'm surprised you even asked.
 
Gill said:
As j-mac pointed out, it was obvious from your post. I'm surprised you even asked.
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No, it wasn't. I said Europe, using them as an example for a Western world, has always had ~8% NRU and that we may be leaving the time where we have an abnormally low NRU, too.
Where you got from that that I "want us to be just like Europe" I don't have the slightest idea.
 
iamitter said:
No, it wasn't. I said Europe, using them as an example for a Western world, has always had ~8% NRU and that we may be leaving the time where we have an abnormally low NRU, too.
Where you got from that that I "want us to be just like Europe" I don't have the slightest idea.
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I'm not going to argue with you, but if you want to believe that, feel free.
 
iamitter said:
No, it wasn't. I said Europe, using them as an example for a Western world, has always had ~8% NRU and that we may be leaving the time where we have an abnormally low NRU, too.
Where you got from that that I "want us to be just like Europe" I don't have the slightest idea.
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If you want to make the argument that throughout our history our employment rates have usually hovered around a 6% to 8% unemployment then that is a valid argument, and our stint of under 5% was unusual. However, I don't believe any comparisons with Europe or any other country are applicable unless you don't believe America to be any different than the countries you are comparing.

j-mac
 
as per OP; i think this sums it up nicely:

 
cpwill said:
as per OP; i think this sums it up nicely:

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Outstanding!! We all know that Obama is nothing but talk as he will by the end of fiscal year 2011 will add more debt in three years than Bush did in 8.
 
Conservative said:
Outstanding!! We all know that Obama is nothing but talk as he will by the end of fiscal year 2011 will add more debt in three years than Bush did in 8.
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Oh but....but.....but he had to to save the free world....hahaha....I tell ya....Well, gotta go...we are going to take advantage of some real affordable housing, and do our part for the economy the free market way.....buy a house....yay! starting our shopping today!

Check in later.


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Oh but....but.....but he had to to save the free world....hahaha....I tell ya....Well, gotta go...we are going to take advantage of some real affordable housing, and do our part for the economy the free market way.....buy a house....yay! starting our shopping today!

Check in later.

j-mac
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Good for you, congratulations and good luck!
 
j-mac said:
If you want to make the argument that throughout our history our employment rates have usually hovered around a 6% to 8% unemployment then that is a valid argument, and our stint of under 5% was unusual. However, I don't believe any comparisons with Europe or any other country are applicable unless you don't believe America to be any different than the countries you are comparing.

j-mac
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That's completely idiotic. You're saying its wrong to compare things unless they are the same.
Every major economy has usually had a NRU around 7% and its completely fair to compare America to places with similarly developed economies. We are not some special entity that we can't compare ourselves to anyone else.
 
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iamitter said:
That's completely idiotic.
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"Idiotic"? Wow, that's a little harsh.

You're saying its wrong to compare things unless they are the same.
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Well, tell me what good it does to compare unequal things?

Every major economy has usually had a NRU around 7%
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That isn't entirely true. I remember when I was in Germany back in the mid 80s the unemployment was about double what it was in the states, and France has a typically high rate. Now if you want to take the EU as a whole, you could probably fair pretty well in that argument, however, it isn't a fair comparison because of the disparity in GDP, and other factors that make the US comparison unequal.

We are not some special entity that we can't compare ourselves to anyone else.
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And that's the problem today isn't it now? Obama said we are no more exceptional than say Greece or Germany right? Great attitude.

j-mac
 
j-mac said:
"Idiotic"? Wow, that's a little harsh.
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You were defending your friend when what he said was one of the stupidest things I've ever heard in my life. How one gets from "Europe has the most comparable economy to the US since they are also western, developed countries so we might have a similar NRU" to "so you want us to be just like Europe ???", I haven't the faintest idea, especially considering I didn't even mention what I want at all.
Well, tell me what good it does to compare unequal things?
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They aren't exactly the same - if they were, it'd be no point comparing them; they're the same! Aspects of the countries in Europe, such as the style of their economies, are the most comparable to us out of the whole world. Also, considering all of those countries hold huge dollar reserves, part of the reason our dollar is so immune to inflation is because Europe and Asia hold those reserves. If they dumped them, our dollar would become trash very quickly.
That isn't entirely true. I remember when I was in Germany back in the mid 80s the unemployment was about double what it was in the states, and France has a typically high rate. Now if you want to take the EU as a whole, you could probably fair pretty well in that argument, however, it isn't a fair comparison because of the disparity in GDP, and other factors that make the US comparison unequal.
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I was never comparing us to individual countries. The total GDP of the EU is larger than the US', but only slightly. We are not exactly the same, but if we want to see where we might go, we have to look at economies that are most similar to ours and Europe fits the bill. There is unfortunately no clone of the US available, so we cannot compare ourselves to them. However, to say that just because we are not exactly the same, we cannot compare ourselves is preposterous.

And that's the problem today isn't it now? Obama said we are no more exceptional than say Greece or Germany right? Great attitude.

j-mac
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Economy-wise? Eh. We were a dominating superpower 40 years ago, but we're fading. We'll continue to be a big economy, but we won't be (and I don't think we are even today) exceptional.
 
iamitter said:
You were defending your friend when what he said was one of the stupidest things I've ever heard in my life. How one gets from "Europe has the most comparable economy to the US since they are also western, developed countries so we might have a similar NRU" to "so you want us to be just like Europe ???", I haven't the faintest idea, especially considering I didn't even mention what I want at all.

They aren't exactly the same - if they were, it'd be no point comparing them; they're the same! Aspects of the countries in Europe, such as the style of their economies, are the most comparable to us out of the whole world. Also, considering all of those countries hold huge dollar reserves, part of the reason our dollar is so immune to inflation is because Europe and Asia hold those reserves. If they dumped them, our dollar would become trash very quickly.


I was never comparing us to individual countries. The total GDP of the EU is larger than the US', but only slightly. We are not exactly the same, but if we want to see where we might go, we have to look at economies that are most similar to ours and Europe fits the bill. There is unfortunately no clone of the US available, so we cannot compare ourselves to them. However, to say that just because we are not exactly the same, we cannot compare ourselves is preposterous.



Economy-wise? Eh. We were a dominating superpower 40 years ago, but we're fading. We'll continue to be a big economy, but we won't be (and I don't think we are even today) exceptional.
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It's hard to run away from your own words, but you are really trying hard.

He should have just reported your post and been done with you, but he's probably like me and hesitant to do that.
 
Gill said:
It's hard to run away from your own words, but you are really trying hard.

He should have just reported your post and been done with you, but he's probably like me and hesitant to do that.
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If you think I broke a rule, report me. I don't think I did - I did not insult any person. I said his defense of you and his statement that you cannot compare the US and Europe because we are not identical idiotic.


Run away from my words? You're the one who twisted what I said. "so you want us to be just like Europe ???" had absolutely NOTHING to do with my post. I did not even mention what I wanted, you were being intellectually dishonest and I don't let people twist what I said and get away with it scot-free.
 
The Prof said:
RealClearPolitics - Video - Jay Carney Won't Acknowledge Whether Democrats Have A Spending Plan On The Table

the govt shuts down next friday at midnite

meanwhile, look at leadership only the lame could believe in

embarrassed yet?
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The Dems don't need a plan. All they have to do is let be known that the Reps plan is reckless and irresponsible, which it is, and the ensuing public outcry will make the Reps run for cover and lose ground on all fronts. It worked that way for Clinton.

ricksfolly
 
ricksfolly said:
The Dems don't need a plan. All they have to do is let be known that the Reps plan is reckless and irresponsible, which it is, and the ensuing public outcry will make the Reps run for cover and lose ground on all fronts. It worked that way for Clinton.

ricksfolly
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Typical spin, Democrats had total control of the Congress and were supposed to offer a budget in mid 2010 for fiscal year 2011 which began in October 2010. They didn't do that and now with control of the Senate and the WH are blaming Republicans for no budget or no compromise. Republicans have a plan, where is the Senate Democrat Plan and the Obama leadership?
 
Conservative said:
Typical spin, Democrats had total control of the Congress and were supposed to offer a budget in mid 2010 for fiscal year 2011 which began in October 2010. They didn't do that and now with control of the Senate and the WH are blaming Republicans for no budget or no compromise. Republicans have a plan, where is the Senate Democrat Plan and the Obama leadership?
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Well, the democrats did offer a plan, it just wasn't accepted, kind of like the republican one isn't going to be accepted as it stands.
 
iamitter said:
Well, the democrats did offer a plan, it just wasn't accepted, kind of like the republican one isn't going to be accepted as it stands.
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So you mean with overwhelming control of both Houses the Democrats couldn't get a budget deal together? Interesting. Where is that budget plan?
 
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