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Sikh students can wear dagger in Plymouth-Canton schools, but with modifications

Zyphlin said:
Its amazing that allowing someone to bring a religious symbol, similar to the crucifix for christians, is "PC run amok" yet the notion of schools disallowing 2" dull blades that are never exposed somehow isn't worthy of condemnation :roll:
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Huh? I could have swarn they allowed them. Let me go back and reread.
 
Albert Di Salvo said:
"4. Don't be a jerk - This simply means what it sounds like."

http://www.debatepolitics.com/forum-rules/28594-forum-rules.html#post1058778610
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irony_tshirt.jpg
 
He is required by his religion to wear this at all times. It's short and dull and can't be removed from its sheath... (the blade, for those of you who aren't thinking with your big heads! :mrgreen:) I don't understand the problem here. We're supposed to respect the practice of religion in this country, so long as it doesn't break the law or infringe on the rights of others. This doesn't do either.
 
American said:
Huh? I could have swarn they allowed them. Let me go back and reread.
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Yes, and rather than people using it as a means of staying "and its ridiculous that they ban 2" pocket knives in some schools" we instead have people going "OMG! They lettin a non-Christian do something. PC! PC! PC!"
 
jamesrage said:
So under the guise of religion a student can carry a blade to school as long as it is short and dull. For some reason I think that if a christian student claimed that the teaching of evolution offended his religious beliefs he would not get a free pass for that class.
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This incident has nothing to do with a Christian student claiming the teaching of evolution to be offensive. A better comparison to it would be a Christian student wanting to carry a full-sized wooden cross everywhere on Easter, it being disruptive to the school, and then the school saying that he can't bring a full-sized wooden cross to school but can bring a small wooden cross and even wear it as a necklace.

One doesn't have to do with the other.
 
DiAnna said:
He is required by his religion to wear this at all times. It's short and dull and can't be removed from its sheath... (the blade, for those of you who aren't thinking with your big heads! :mrgreen:) I don't understand the problem here. We're supposed to respect the practice of religion in this country, so long as it doesn't break the law or infringe on the rights of others. This doesn't do either.
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Well, hell, I'm going to send my kids to school with a Knights Templar sword tomorrow.
 
I am thrilled to here that a school is finally using reasonable judgment when it comes to weapons. One can only hope they will realize that pocket knives and other tools are perfectly reasonable as well. I have no idea whether this was motivated by political correctness or not, but regardless of intent the outcome is still good.
 
We had this in our schools in Britain a while ago and there are various options that headteachers take -

  • if a real blade is worn it is worn under several layers of clothing anyway and is short and dull (like the OP)
  • the kirpan can be small decorative part of the comb that Sikhs also have to carry as part of their 5 "K's"
  • the kirpan can be a decorative pendant

Sikhs realise they aren't in mortal combat against islamic hordes in the 16th century anymore and a ceremonial dagger symbol satisfies their religious requirement just as simply as a real kirpan would. Sikhs are damn good people and I have a huge amount of respect for them.
 
Albert Di Salvo said:
Hey Gang,

Sikhs are not at all the problem in this country. If I could I would pick up all the Sikhs in India and bring them to America. It would be a major infusion of healthy blood into a very sick body politic.
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I have no problem with Sikhs. As Zyph noted, we do hear a lot of stories about some school district giving a student hell for wearing a crucifix, studying the Bible at lunch, praying out loud, etc... then this appears as a contrast.

I have no problem with the decision, it sounds reasonable... it just seems that our school system is much more willing to bend over backward to accomodate foreign religions than our own most-popular ones.
 
Goshin said:
I have no problem with Sikhs. As Zyph noted, we do hear a lot of stories about some school district giving a student hell for wearing a crucifix, studying the Bible at lunch, praying out loud, etc... then this appears as a contrast.

I have no problem with the decision, it sounds reasonable... it just seems that our school system is much more willing to bend over backward to accomodate foreign religions than our own most-popular ones.
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I imagine part of it is that the religion REQUIRES followers to arry this. It's expected of them as a religious edict. It's not the equivalent to a sin to not wear a cross or carry a bible around.

to put it in a christian perspective, imagine if a government entity forced you to covet your neighbors wife, steal, or some other great sin. Disallowing a shik from arrying the kirpon is forcing them to violate an important edict of their religion. In this case for an entirely unreasonable purpose when the blade is 2" long (far less than a "templar sword"), dull, and always in a sheath
 
Zyphlin said:
I imagine part of it is that the religion REQUIRES followers to arry this. It's expected of them as a religious edict. It's not the equivalent to a sin to not wear a cross or carry a bible around.

to put it in a christian perspective, imagine if a government entity forced you to covet your neighbors wife, steal, or some other great sin. Disallowing a shik from arrying the kirpon is forcing them to violate an important edict of their religion. In this case for an entirely unreasonable purpose when the blade is 2" long (far less than a "templar sword"), dull, and always in a sheath
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I think that one point Goshin may have is prayers in public schools. Christians often wish to pray before school - which many liberals are against because of separation of church and state and the use of government property to provide a place for prayer - while Muslims are required to pray five times a day towards Mecca, and thus may need their own accomodations to do so since it is likely they will have to pray during school hours.

Does anyone know the ruling for public schools concerning this?
 
samsmart said:
I think that one point Goshin may have is prayers in public schools. Christians often wish to pray before school - which many liberals are against because of separation of church and state and the use of government property to provide a place for prayer - while Muslims are required to pray five times a day towards Mecca, and thus may need their own accomodations to do so since it is likely they will have to pray during school hours.

Does anyone know the ruling for public schools concerning this?
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I won't speak for other liberals but my problem has not been praying being allowed in schools but rather a teacher led prayer where all the kids in class are required to hear it. Kids are allowed to pray in all the schools in my area. They just dont have teacher led prayer.

Also I have no problem with schools accommodating a room for prayer so long as all religions can use it and not just one or two.
 
Zyphlin said:
Yes, and rather than people using it as a means of staying "and its ridiculous that they ban 2" pocket knives in some schools" we instead have people going "OMG! They lettin a non-Christian do something. PC! PC! PC!"
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Until they have a uniform policy, they should complain. The whole business is ridiculous, but hey if they're not consistent, complaints should be filed.
 
American said:
Until they have a uniform policy, they should complain. The whole business is ridiculous, but hey if they're not consistent, complaints should be filed.
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And YMMV but the problem may be exacerbated in that such issues are likely to be determined by individual school districts, which is one reason why there are no consistent guidelines.
 
Christian kids are not banned from wearing religious symbols in school. Much ado about nothing.

I have met members of the Sikh community in Canada. Quite possibly some of the most peaceful people I've ever met. They also make great bread. Much ado about nothing.
 
samsmart said:
And YMMV but the problem may be exacerbated in that such issues are likely to be determined by individual school districts, which is one reason why there are no consistent guidelines.
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I'm not talking among districts, I'm talking among religions.
 
American said:
School ban for crosses but not Muslim lockets - Telegraph

Wearing 'purity rings' is banned at girls' school | Mail Online

Yeah, no problem right?
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From your links:

Schools have been told that they should ban crosses and crucifixes, but allow Muslim children to wear symbols, even though they are not compulsory.
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So somebody suggested they should ban it and another school banned jewelry across the board. Where is the actual ban on crosses? Maybe next time you'll find us a link on an actual ban of crosses? That would be nice.
 
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samsmart said:
I think that one point Goshin may have is prayers in public schools. Christians often wish to pray before school - which many liberals are against because of separation of church and state and the use of government property to provide a place for prayer - while Muslims are required to pray five times a day towards Mecca, and thus may need their own accomodations to do so since it is likely they will have to pray during school hours.

Does anyone know the ruling for public schools concerning this?
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Okay... so are you saying that because our religion is a bit less demanding than theirs, means that theirs should get priority efforts at accomodation while ours is relegated to a side-issue at best, when not being actually stifled outright?

Not saying you meant it that way, just pointing something out...
 
samsmart said:
I think that one point Goshin may have is prayers in public schools. Christians often wish to pray before school - which many liberals are against because of separation of church and state and the use of government property to provide a place for prayer - while Muslims are required to pray five times a day towards Mecca, and thus may need their own accomodations to do so since it is likely they will have to pray during school hours.

Does anyone know the ruling for public schools concerning this?
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Have these liberals actually read the 1st Amendment?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
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ARE WE CLEAR ON THIS NOW?? Apparently public school training has adversely affected reading comprehension.
 
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This is so awesome. I now await with tingly thighs for the Satanists to demand the right to wear goat's heads for the black masses.

We are so evolved.
 
justabubba said:
if it is sewn into the sheath and is not able to be retracted, then what damage could it do

somehow, i think the opponents would be screaming if it was decided that crosses worn on necklaces could be used as weapons and were therefor no longer going to be tolerated
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in some places they are not
 
American said:
Have these liberals actually read the 1st Amendment?


ARE WE CLEAR ON THIS NOW?? Apparently public school training has adversely affected reading comprehension.
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Interesting how you bolded the "Free Exercise" Clause, which is not relevant to your point. You should have bolded the "Establishment" Clause, which precludes the government from endorsing religion. The Establishment Clause, not the Free Exercise Clause is the reason prayer is not allow at public schools, because that constitutes a government endorsement of a particular religion.

There is a difference between allowing a student to wear a religious symbol, as is the case here, and school endorsed prayer is as stark as the difference between night and day. The latter is an endorsement of religion by the school, the former is not.
 
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