White House to Push Gun Control

apdst · Jul 11, 2011

Boo Radley said:
I think we all accept that, though I think some msitakenly think ruling on law is making it.

Yeah, some like yourself.

Boo Radley · Jul 11, 2011

apdst said:
Yeah, some like yourself.

No, that would not be me. Sorry. :coffeepap

The Prof · Jul 11, 2011

fascinating...

meanwhile, the acting director of atf testified on july 4 to house judiciary that the doj tried to "limit his communication" with congress

stay tuned

j-mac · Jul 12, 2011

Boo Radley said:
Again think. You too J. Do you really believe he had all the details? Come on now, be honest. Try.

Well, I don't know if Obama had every detail, however, I do think that Holder did. And just because the President doesn't know all the details, or has been purposely kept out of the loop, doesn't mitigate his complicity with the program overall....Think Nixon Joe.

j-mac

Boo Radley · Jul 12, 2011

j-mac said:
Well, I don't know if Obama had every detail, however, I do think that Holder did. And just because the President doesn't know all the details, or has been purposely kept out of the loop, doesn't mitigate his complicity with the program overall....Think Nixon Joe.

j-mac

Not sure Holder would, but if proven he did, he should resign. However, just wanting to believe he knew is not equal to him knowing. And yes, know being involved in the actual operational knowledge does mitigate his responsibility. His job is to hol them responsible. No great job brownie nonsense, but those who screw up answer for it.

And Nixon himself committed a crime. He was not responsible for thebreak in. He was responsible for the cover up. Your response here seems to suggest you don't know well what happened there.

j-mac · Jul 12, 2011

Boo Radley said:
Not sure Holder would, but if proven he did, he should resign. However, just wanting to believe he knew is not equal to him knowing. And yes, know being involved in the actual operational knowledge does mitigate his responsibility. His job is to hol them responsible. No great job brownie nonsense, but those who screw up answer for it.

And Nixon himself committed a crime. He was not responsible for thebreak in. He was responsible for the cover up. Your response here seems to suggest you don't know well what happened there.

Lol...Good one...But the cover up is what is happening now with the Obama administration...Let's have a what did he know, and when did he know it moment....

j-mac

Boo Radley · Jul 12, 2011

j-mac said:
Lol...Good one...But the cover up is what is happening now with the Obama administration...Let's have a what did he know, and when did he know it moment....

j-mac

Just like with Nixon, you have to prove a cover up. You can't just wish it.

j-mac · Jul 12, 2011

Boo Radley said:
Just like with Nixon, you have to prove a cover up. You can't just wish it.

In the process now....Stay tuned. Although I would say it doesn't bode well for your side to be sending reams of redacted paper.....They might as well just tell congress no. They don't respect them anyway.

j-mac

Boo Radley · Jul 12, 2011

j-mac said:
In the process now....Stay tuned. Although I would say it doesn't bode well for your side to be sending reams of redacted paper.....They might as well just tell congress no. They don't respect them anyway.

j-mac

By all means, let it work it's course. But don't pretend you KNOW when you don't have the evidence. Wishing is not evidence.

The Prof · Jul 12, 2011

Boo Radley said:
Not sure Holder would, but if proven he did, he should resign.

if he didn't, he should resign

ag's should be competent

hello

And yes, know being involved in the actual operational knowledge does mitigate his responsibility.

LOL!

completely incoherent

j-mac · Jul 12, 2011

Boo Radley said:
By all means, let it work it's course. But don't pretend you KNOW when you don't have the evidence. Wishing is not evidence.

Sure, I'll watch closely as well. As for knowing, or not knowing, please show me where I have equivocally stated that I know for a fact....? You can't! We are both offering opinions on the news we see, the difference is that you'd like everyone to take your words at face value as some sort of fact when you don't know a damned thing either. So why don't you knock it off pal.

j-mac

Boo Radley · Jul 12, 2011

j-mac said:
Sure, I'll watch closely as well. As for knowing, or not knowing, please show me where I have equivocally stated that I know for a fact....? You can't! We are both offering opinions on the news we see, the difference is that you'd like everyone to take your words at face value as some sort of fact when you don't know a damned thing either. So why don't you knock it off pal.

j-mac

When when you pick up someone elses baton, you take over their argument. Go back and re-read what you jumped in on.

The Prof · Jul 12, 2011

Boo Radley said:
When when you pick up someone elses paton, you take over their argument.

pardon?

LOL!

anyway, the acting director of atf, appointed by obama, testified july 4 in house judiciary that eric holder's doj was trying to "limit his [melson's] communcation" with congress

why?

ptif219 · Jul 13, 2011

Boo Radley said:
Again think. You too J. Do you really believe he had all the details? Come on now, be honest. Try.

He is responsible as the president for all departments. Stop trying to act like he has no responsibility.

Boo Radley · Jul 14, 2011

ptif219 said:
He is responsible as the president for all departments. Stop trying to act like he has no responsibility.

Responsibility doesn't mean knowing all details. It means holding those who work him accountable. Had Bush from the start held Brownie accountable, he'd have faced face less criticism. Sure, there is the flip side of folks like you and the prof, who will always criticise regardless of the facts. But they would be no more correct than you are.

The Prof · Jul 14, 2011

Boo Radley said:
Responsibility doesn't mean knowing all details.

LOL!

competence does

and it's pretty hard to exercise responsibility sans competence

hello

holder's an idiot

he's not the only one

why did melson testify to house judiciary on july 4 that doj was trying to "limit his communication" with congress?

ptif219 · Jul 14, 2011

Boo Radley said:
Responsibility doesn't mean knowing all details. It means holding those who work him accountable. Had Bush from the start held Brownie accountable, he'd have faced face less criticism. Sure, there is the flip side of folks like you and the prof, who will always criticise regardless of the facts. But they would be no more correct than you are.

You make no sense. You ignore the fact Obama and Holder are trying to block the investigation

Boo Radley · Jul 15, 2011

ptif219 said:
You make no sense. You ignore the fact Obama and Holder are trying to block the investigation

You have to prove their efforts and not merely say someone says they are. Again, your willingness to believe anythign is more the problem here than anything else.

ptif219 · Jul 15, 2011

Boo Radley said:
You have to prove their efforts and not merely say someone says they are. Again, your willingness to believe anythign is more the problem here than anything else.

If you think they did not know you are mistaken. You are saying Obama is so incompetent that he did not know it was in the stimulus and he had no idea this was happening? Nice try but I think it was Obama's idea so he could spin it for gun control. The only thing that will satisfy you is if these criminals in the White House that did this confess

Boo Radley · Jul 15, 2011

ptif219 said:
If you think they did not know you are mistaken. You are saying Obama is so incompetent that he did not know it was in the stimulus and he had no idea this was happening? Nice try but I think it was Obama's idea so he could spin it for gun control. The only thing that will satisfy you is if these criminals in the White House that did this confess

This is actually below anything a president would have or need operational details on. And Holder would more than likely only have a passing knowledge on. You want this to be their responsibility. I get that. But yu need much more than you have.

j-mac · Jul 15, 2011

Boo Radley said:
You have to prove their efforts and not merely say someone says they are.

[video]http://videoshare.politico.com/singletitlevideo.php?bcpid=19407224001&bckey=AQ~~,AAAAAETmrZQ~,EVFEM4AKJdQtJLv7zbMPiBGChH KnGYSG&bctid=995036047001[/video]

j-mac

Boo Radley · Jul 15, 2011

j-mac said:
[video]http://videoshare.politico.com/singletitlevideo.php?bcpid=19407224001&bckey=AQ~~,AAAAAETmrZQ~,EVFEM4AKJdQtJLv7zbMPiBGChH KnGYSG&bctid=995036047001[/video]

j-mac

As we knowing about this, we can't make the leap you are. Sorry.

The Barbarian · Jul 15, 2011

Now lets see …. according to some here, no one of any substance knew anything about this whole affair …. yet it was just a year or so ago .. when Mrs. Clinton and Obama both were criticizing America for the number of guns that were supposingly showing up south of the border, even going so far as to blame the US for the violence taking place in Mexico telling us the number of guns that were from the US that were being confiscated .
.
Either this administration is just out and out lying about this, or it's the most inept, incompetent administration of all time. Just over a year ago .. they demonized America for the ease of US guns getting across the boarder … now we are shipping guns down there by the thousands and he knows nothing about it ??? A branch of our own government doing this without the knowledge of anyone in the upper echelon of the Obama administration?? If that is indeed true .. then we need to get rid of such murderous incompetence.... because only gawd knows what other weapons are leaving country without his knowledge.... or to whom they are going.

Surveillance video obtained by CBS News shows suspected drug cartel suppliers carrying boxes of weapons to their cars at a Phoenix gun shop. The long boxes shown in the video being loaded in were AK-47-type assault rifles.

So it turns out ATF not only allowed it - they videotaped it.

Documents show the inevitable result:*The guns that ATF let go*began showing up at crime scenes in Mexico. And as ATF stood by watching thousands of weapons hit the streets... the Fast and Furious group supervisor noted the escalating Mexican violence.
One e-mail noted, "958 killed in March 2010 ... most violent month since 2005." The same e-mail notes: "Our subjects purchased 359 firearms during March alone," including "numerous Barrett .50 caliber rifles."
"I'm boots on the ground in Phoenix, telling you we've been doing it every day since I've been here," he said. "Here I am. Tell me I didn't do the things that I did. Tell me you didn't order me to do the things I did. Tell me it didn't happen. Now you have a name on it. You have a face to put with it. Here I am. Someone now, tell me it didn't happen."
Agent Dodson and other sources say the gun walking strategy was approved all the way up to the Justice Department. The idea was to see where the guns ended up, build a big case and take down a cartel. And it was all kept secret from Mexico.

Sen. Grassley began investigating after his office spoke to Dodson and a dozen other ATF sources -- all telling the same story.

The Prof · Jul 15, 2011

Boo Radley said:
your willingness to believe anythign (sic) is more the problem here than anything else

the opinions of an anonymous dp poster are more the problem than the sale by the united states dept of justice of thousands of assault rifles to cruel and crazed mexican drug cartels?

LOL!

think much?

The Prof · Jul 15, 2011

Boo Radley said:
And Holder would more than likely only have a passing knowledge on

the ag is unaware of the movement of thousands of assault weapons involving THREE of his agencies, the fbi AND the dea AND the atf?

LOL!

what an idiot