White House to Push Gun Control

ptif219 · Jul 10, 2011

Boo Radley said:
I'll type slower. You have to prove Holder knew the details, and was an active participant in desigining and running it. And that would only make Holder responsibile, not Obama and not democrats. Not read everything I've typed slower.

:coffeepap

Nice spin. Why are you avoiding the fact it was put in the stimulus bill. This means Obama knew about it.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs...holder-bragged-about-operation-gunrunner-2009

Boo Radley · Jul 10, 2011

ptif219 said:
Nice spin. Why are you avoiding the fact it was put in the stimulus bill. This means Obama knew about it.

Holder bragged about Operation Gunrunner in 2009 | Barbara Hollingsworth | Beltway Confidential | Washington Examiner

No, I'm not. Obama likely knew there was a plan. He likely did not know the details. Nor is it likely that anyone in congress knew the details. The stupidity was likley well below them. You want something to make political hay with so badly you are ignoring reality. And you are not addressing what I'm saying.

Wake · Jul 10, 2011

Boo Radley said:
No, I'm not. Obama likely knew there was a plan. He likely did not know the details. Nor is it likely that anyone in congress knew the details. The stupidity was likley well below them. You want something to make political hay with so badly you are ignoring reality. And you are not addressing what I'm saying.

But... how do you know the president didn't know?

People typically expect the president to be well-informed.

Boo Radley · Jul 10, 2011

Wake said:
But... how do you know the president didn't know?

People typically expect the president to be well-informed.

I don't have to prove the negative. You have to prove he knew. Logically, it's unlikely that he did. Presidents don't get every detail on every program. No human could possibiliy handle that much knowledge.

ptif219 · Jul 10, 2011

Boo Radley said:
No, I'm not. Obama likely knew there was a plan. He likely did not know the details. Nor is it likely that anyone in congress knew the details. The stupidity was likley well below them. You want something to make political hay with so badly you are ignoring reality. And you are not addressing what I'm saying.

I guess you did not read that link where Holder gave a speech on it in 2009

ptif219 · Jul 10, 2011

Boo Radley said:
I don't have to prove the negative. You have to prove he knew. Logically, it's unlikely that he did. Presidents don't get every detail on every program. No human could possibiliy handle that much knowledge.

It was Obama's stimulus bill. If democrats put that in it was with Obama's approval

Boo Radley · Jul 10, 2011

ptif219 said:
It was Obama's stimulus bill. If democrats put that in it was with Obama's approval

You're not paying attention. This does not mean he knew the details.

Wake · Jul 10, 2011

Boo Radley said:
I don't have to prove the negative. You have to prove he knew. Logically, it's unlikely that he did. Presidents don't get every detail on every program. No human could possibiliy handle that much knowledge.

That's understandable. Thank you.

This whole scenario is convoluted and unfortunate..

ptif219 · Jul 10, 2011

Boo Radley said:
You're not paying attention. This does not mean he knew the details.

So the dems put that in without Obama approval?

Boo Radley · Jul 10, 2011

Wake said:
That's understandable. Thank you.

This whole scenario is convoluted and unfortunate..

I do agree it is unfortunate, and I would add someone shold be held accountable. And I do think there was a resignation, someone accepting responsibility. If someone higher should, we need evidence of knowledge of and of green lighting based on that knowledge of such a poorly planned and excuted effort.

Boo Radley · Jul 10, 2011

ptif219 said:
So the dems put that in without Obama approval?

They could have. But it is unlikely either knew all the details.

The Prof · Jul 10, 2011

Boo Radley said:
You have to prove Holder knew the details, and was an active participant in desigining and running it

LOL!

whether he designed the operation or not, his dept executed it

hello

holder says he didn't know

but melson testified in house oversight that the program was ongoing thruout doj, involving the fbi, dea AS WELL AS the atf

that'd only make the ag an idiot

but hey, at least no one said "heckuva job, homie"

ptif219 · Jul 10, 2011

Boo Radley said:
They could have. But it is unlikely either knew all the details.

Nice cop out. Obama is responsible for the ATF and holder and the stimulus bill. he knew or else he is a total incompetent that knows nothing about being president. I showed Holder knew that also means Obama knew.

ptif219 · Jul 10, 2011

The Prof said:
LOL!

whether he designed the operation or not, his dept executed it

hello

holder says he didn't know

but melson testified in house oversight that the program was ongoing thruout doj, involving the fbi, dea AS WELL AS the atf

that'd only make the ag an idiot

but hey, at least no one said "heckuva job, homie"

Holder knew and said so in a speech

Holder bragged about Operation Gunrunner in 2009 | Barbara Hollingsworth | Beltway Confidential | Washington Examiner

Thunder · Jul 10, 2011

ptif219 said:
But in the next two weeks, the White House will unveil a new gun-control effort in which it will urge Congress to strengthen current laws, which now allow some mentally unstable people, such as alleged Arizona shooter Jared Loughner, to obtain certain assault weapons, in some cases without even a background check.

we need national standards on how people who have been deemed unfit to own a firearm, are kept in a database and how their right to own weapons again is restored.

apdst · Jul 10, 2011

Thunder said:
we need national standards on how people who have been deemed unfit to own a firearm, are kept in a database and how their right to own weapons again is restored.

Who--exactly--gets to determine who is unfit? A board filled with a bunch of anti-gun mother****ers could deem every U.S. citizen unfit and thereby take way our 2nd Amendment rights.

Thunder · Jul 10, 2011

apdst said:
Who--exactly--gets to determine who is unfit?

Judges do.

And hopefully they follow the professional and expert views of a Psychologist who thoroughly interviews the person.

apdst · Jul 10, 2011

Thunder said:
Judges do.

And hopefully they follow the professional and expert views of a Psychologist who thoroughly interviews the person.

Sorry, but judges don't get to **** over our constitutional rights. Thank God!

Thunder · Jul 10, 2011

apdst said:
Sorry, but judges don't get to **** over our constitutional rights. Thank God!

Judges have been given the power to suspend a person's right to own a firearm. This happens ALL the time, in every state.

Do you feel comfortable with an untreated paranoid-schizophrenic, whom doctors feel is a serious danger to himself and the public, owning a firearm?

apdst · Jul 10, 2011

Thunder said:
Judges have been given the power to suspend a person's right to own a firearm. This happens ALL the time, in every state.

No, the law suspends a person's right to own a firearm, after they have been convicted of a crime. Judges have no authority to remove civil rights.

Do you feel comfortable with an untreated paranoid-schizophrenic, whom doctors feel is a serious danger to himself and the public, owning a firearm?

No, I don't. But, I'm even more incomfortable with a bunch of anti-gunners bypassing the Constitution and taking away my rights.

I'll take my chances with the armed nut-job. At least I'll have my personal weapon to defend myself from him, or her.

Thunder · Jul 10, 2011

apdst said:
No, the law suspends a person's right to own a firearm, after they have been convicted of a crime. Judges have no authority to remove civil rights.

judges restrict a person's right to own firearms all the time, whether or not they have been convicted of a crime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Control_Act_of_1968#Prohibited_persons

the Gun Control Act of 1968 forbids the sale of guns to anyone who:

(4) has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been
committed to any mental institution;

who does this adjudicating? a Judge.

who commits a person to a mental institution? a Judge.

ptif219 · Jul 10, 2011

Thunder said:
we need national standards on how people who have been deemed unfit to own a firearm, are kept in a database and how their right to own weapons again is restored.

Who are you talking about?

ptif219 · Jul 10, 2011

Thunder said:
Judges have been given the power to suspend a person's right to own a firearm. This happens ALL the time, in every state.

Do you feel comfortable with an untreated paranoid-schizophrenic, whom doctors feel is a serious danger to himself and the public, owning a firearm?

Do you mean convicts?

Thunder · Jul 10, 2011

ptif219 said:
Do you mean convicts?

did you read my quote from the Gun Control Act of 1968?

ptif219 · Jul 10, 2011

Thunder said:
did you read my quote from the Gun Control Act of 1968?

That is seldom used. Do you want a mental evaluation to buy a gun?