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White House to Push Gun Control

Gun regulation in the U.S. is already tough - if done legally. Yes there are exceptions ie., straw purchases which I don't like either and would like to see removed, but that's a states issue. And I also realize that there are those who think every gun is evil, and therefore all guns should be banned no matter the reason - so some people will always cry about how lax the gun laws are in the U.S. However, in my state, I have to go through a full background check, get a firearms purchasers card, get fingerprinted and get a signed document by my local law enforcement (State Troopers), submit that to the BATF, have them do a full check on me including mental capacity, then I get my card, which takes 30-90 days. If I want a pistol, I have to submit yet another form and I'm limited to 2 pistols per purchase. That takes another 30-90 days. Once I pay my fees and get THAT card, which is only valid for purchase for 30 days, I can go pick out my handgun, and then I have to wait 24 hours before I can pick it up. When I go to pick it up, my ID is checked an another BATF call is made to a hotline to verify I've passed and to validate my form. Then I can go home with my handgun.

I hear about these people going to gun shows and going home with 20 pistols and stuff, but I've yet to see it, and I've been to gun shows in PA and Virginia. I'm sure it happens, but the frequency may be overblown.

I believe you. I was merely stating that for Obama to make gun laws stricter in any material sense probably wouldn't be good politics. I definitely believe that the most effective gun control laws should be directed toward the prevention of straw purchases and a better tracking system that allows the ATF to trace crime guns, since currently law prevents them from computerizing that data and putting them into databases and instead they have to resort to manual paperwork.
 
Unless you are democrat and you think it will fire up your base

I think Obama's already shown enough propensity for pissing off the base and moving towards the center, because honestly catering to the center does you a lot more good than catering to the liberal base which is pretty small in this country.
 
I hear about these people going to gun shows and going home with 20 pistols and stuff, but I've yet to see it, and I've been to gun shows in PA and Virginia. I'm sure it happens, but the frequency may be overblown.

I don't believe it happens at gun shows. I believe it occurs in specific stores with specific dealers.
 
Presidents have always had czars. This didn't begin with Obama, since most of his "czars" were inherited from Bush.

Technically incorrect --- the "czars" positions only existing since FDR, they have not "always" existed - though yes, some czar position existed since Bush.
 
Dogs are good. My parents have a bulldog, 3 mutts and various dos in and out of the house (mom does animal rescue for a no kill shelter and often has dogs there when needed) and they both have pistols. Because dogs aren't perfect ;)

I have an English mastiff and 3 hand guns
 
I don't believe it happens at gun shows. I believe it occurs in specific stores with specific dealers.

Mmm, shady arms dealer. I want to be a shady arms dealer if my dream of becoming a pirate falls through.
 
Yeah, that's probably true. But if I were robbing a place and came across a dog that wanted to eat me, I'd probably just pop the dog. And then the owner in the leg for having released the dog. Maybe the knee so that whenever it rains they're reminded of their bad choice.

My concern would be someone attempting to get into the house in the middle of the night when I'm not there. My dog can be in the bedroom, caged up, and will still go ballistic if you touch the outside of the house. I'm not worried about the scenario I described with her there. And, unlike the movies, someone who's trying to get into the house in the middle of the night is worried about being stealthy and probably doesn't have a silencer. So no, they aren't going to shoot the dog and wake the neighbors. We live in a suburban neighborhood.

hahah...am I evil?

This discussion would require an entirely new thread.
 
I think Obama's already shown enough propensity for pissing off the base and moving towards the center, because honestly catering to the center does you a lot more good than catering to the liberal base which is pretty small in this country.

Obama center? What world do?
 
I don't believe it happens at gun shows. I believe it occurs in specific stores with specific dealers.

Wow. I would have thought the direct opposite. I wouldn't think those stores or dealers would stay out of jail very long doing that.
 
Mmm, shady arms dealer. I want to be a shady arms dealer if my dream of becoming a pirate falls through.

If my dream of being a zombie slayer falls through, I want to be a Parisian courtesan.
 
Wow. I would have thought the direct opposite. I wouldn't think those stores or dealers would stay out of jail very long doing that.

Purchases at gun shows require the same sort of paperwork as purchases through a dealer.

This is a good article on the subject of crime guns. Money quote:

ATF officials say that only about 8% of the nation's 124,000 retail gun dealers sell the majority of handguns that are used in crimes.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html

I didn't know this either, but I was trained by the ATF this year. I'd say that one of the most valuable things that the ATF does is to attempt to deter/prosecute these kinds of illegal sales of weapons.

FWIW, the BATFE (mostly known as the ATF) is my favorite federal agency. Most of the guys and gals who work for BATFE have street cop experience before they go to work for BATFE, and their work shows. I know that they are the favorite punching bag of the far right, but when it comes to actual street level crime, BATFE is the best federal ally that most local police agencies have access to. They aren't afraid to get their hands dirty and work in the street, they share information readily, they serve willingly on joint task forces, and they don't have to own everything that happens. This is very dissimilar from other federal agencies.
 
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Technically incorrect --- the "czars" positions only existing since FDR, they have not "always" existed - though yes, some czar position existed since Bush.

Sorry, "always" is an exaggeration. But the number of czars went up dramatically between Clinton and Bush, and Obama has carried on with about the same number.
 
Obama center? What world do?

Does creating a watered-down, weak-ass healthcare bill that never considered a single-payer system (a socialist's fantasy) or that gave up on the public option (a liberals' wet dream), and mandates people to buy insurance from PRIVATE insurers sound liberal to you?
Does creating a weak-ass financial regulation bill that barely does anything to prevent a repeat of what happened in 2008 sound liberal to you?
Does continuing the War in Afghanistan sound liberal to you?
Does having conservatives like Robert Gates as your defense secretary sound liberal to you? (Actually I rather like Gates he's doing a fine job given the steaming pile of **** he was handed)
Does keeping Guantanamo bay open sound liberal to you?
Does continuing the use of torture and maintaining the Bush policy of extraordinary rendition sound liberal to you?
Does not supporting gay marriage sound liberal to you?
Does not taking the lead on the repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell, and instead letting Congress do the heavy lifting sound liberal to you?
Does keeping the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy sound liberal to you?

Obama might be a liberal at heart but he has been anything but a liberal President. The thought of him being a socialist is even more laughable.
 
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Obama might be a liberal at heart but he has been anything but a liberal President. The thought of him being a socialist is even more laughable.

Oh no. You've created a cognitive distortion that could be fatal. I wonder if their prewired programming will be able to overwhelm this attempt to make their circuits melt down.
 
This is your Washington working hard for you Americans. Gun control again. Maybe we can dive into the abortion issue next. Maybe a little flag burning debate for a few weeks after that. Anything to take the fickle American people's attention off the real issues that have proven to be too difficult for the elected douches in suits to solve.
 
I am a gun owner and recreational shooter and personally I think that guns should have annual registration requirements like vehicles do. People buy guns and then there is no accountability on that gun again to make sure its still in a qualified person's ownership. Many guns end up in criminal hands because criminals use legitimate people to buy their guns and then they pass them on to criminals who use them in crimes. Why not hold people accountable to their firearms every year like we do with their cars?
 
Does creating a watered-down, weak-ass healthcare bill that never considered a single-payer system (a socialist's fantasy) or that gave up on the public option (a liberals' wet dream), and mandates people to buy insurance from PRIVATE insurers sound liberal to you?
Does creating a weak-ass financial regulation bill that barely does anything to prevent a repeat of what happened in 2008 sound liberal to you?
Does continuing the War in Afghanistan sound liberal to you?
Does having conservatives like Robert Gates as your defense secretary sound liberal to you? (Actually I rather like Gates he's doing a fine job given the steaming pile of **** he was handed)
Does keeping Guantanamo bay open sound liberal to you?
Does continuing the use of torture and maintaining the Bush policy of extraordinary rendition sound liberal to you?
Does not supporting gay marriage sound liberal to you?
Does not taking the lead on the repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell, and instead letting Congress do the heavy lifting sound liberal to you?
Does keeping the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy sound liberal to you?

Obama might be a liberal at heart but he has been anything but a liberal President. The thought of him being a socialist is even more laughable.

Ouch. Somebody just got owned.
 
I am a gun owner and recreational shooter and personally I think that guns should have annual registration requirements like vehicles do. People buy guns and then there is no accountability on that gun again to make sure its still in a qualified person's ownership. Many guns end up in criminal hands because criminals use legitimate people to buy their guns and then they pass them on to criminals who use them in crimes. Why not hold people accountable to their firearms every year like we do with their cars?

Because the last thing this nation needs is more beauracracy to stagnate it. Do you really want a firmearms "DMV?" Imagine what the long lines and administration mistakes will cause people to do. "Postal?"
 
Because the last thing this nation needs is more beauracracy to stagnate it. Do you really want a firmearms "DMV?" Imagine what the long lines and administration mistakes will cause people to do. "Postal?"

Based upon the standard rationale, no one would go postal because everyone there would be packing.
 
Based upon the standard rationale, no one would go postal because everyone there would be packing.


Well, they would all just pull out and kill the offender. This gun craze is tiring. Protect the flag..."To Abort or Not to Abort".....isn't there an economy issue to deal with?
 
Do you really want a firmearms "DMV?"

If that's what it takes to keep more guns out of the hands of crazies and criminals and ensure they are in law abiding citizens hands, yes. Cut out bureaucracy where its not needed and put some in where it is. Then learn how to spell bureaucracy before complaining that we have too much of it.
 
The 2nd amendment is viewed as an extremeness important right because it ensures that citizens have the ability to remove the government if it became tyrannical,It ensures that citizens can defend themselves from criminals and invasion. It can still be amended.

2nd amendment proponents use the lie that the "constitution is a living document" to **** on the 2nd amendment because they know that they can not get the support to amend the constitution to remove it.

Here is my point on both issues, first back when that was advocated the private citizenry were actually a match for the military as they only had muskets and the such. I don't think our glocks and hunting rifles will do much against jets, tanks, and drones.

On the Constitution, I think that the Founders, though intelligent men were smart enough to predict all of the issues and technology that there would ever be, that is why they expected generations to shape the country as they needed.
 
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