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White House to Push Gun Control

That lack of capacity didn't seem to hinder Health Care from getting passed... other things did like a lack of citizens support - but not a Presidential lack of capacity.

I guess...healthcare reform was a watered-down piece of **** in my opinion though. Certainly Obamacare in its current form isn't what he had in mind from the beginning.
 
So I take it you feel that the Constitution should be taken exactly how it was

Of course and if you think the constitution needs interpretation then you can look at the intentions of those who authored the amendments in the constitution.


and left unchanged, ever?

You do not know that we have an amendment process for repealing or adding amendments to the constitution. The most recent one the 27th added in 1992.
 
Hmm... the U.K. and Australia thought that too. Didn't work out too well for them.

Crime Statistics > Murders (per capita) (most recent) by country

Showing latest available data. Rank Countries Amount
# 1 Colombia: 0.617847 per 1,000 people
# 2 South Africa: 0.496008 per 1,000 people
# 3 Jamaica: 0.324196 per 1,000 people
# 4 Venezuela: 0.316138 per 1,000 people
# 5 Russia: 0.201534 per 1,000 people
# 6 Mexico: 0.130213 per 1,000 people
# 7 Estonia: 0.107277 per 1,000 people
# 8 Latvia: 0.10393 per 1,000 people
# 9 Lithuania: 0.102863 per 1,000 people
# 10 Belarus: 0.0983495 per 1,000 people
# 11 Ukraine: 0.094006 per 1,000 people
# 12 Papua New Guinea: 0.0838593 per 1,000 people
# 13 Kyrgyzstan: 0.0802565 per 1,000 people
# 14 Thailand: 0.0800798 per 1,000 people
# 15 Moldova: 0.0781145 per 1,000 people
# 16 Zimbabwe: 0.0749938 per 1,000 people
# 17 Seychelles: 0.0739025 per 1,000 people
# 18 Zambia: 0.070769 per 1,000 people
# 19 Costa Rica: 0.061006 per 1,000 people
# 20 Poland: 0.0562789 per 1,000 people
# 21 Georgia: 0.0511011 per 1,000 people
# 22 Uruguay: 0.045082 per 1,000 people
# 23 Bulgaria: 0.0445638 per 1,000 people
# 24 United States: 0.042802 per 1,000 people
# 25 Armenia: 0.0425746 per 1,000 people
# 26 India: 0.0344083 per 1,000 people
# 27 Yemen: 0.0336276 per 1,000 people
# 28 Dominica: 0.0289733 per 1,000 people
# 29 Azerbaijan: 0.0285642 per 1,000 people
# 30 Finland: 0.0283362 per 1,000 people
# 31 Slovakia: 0.0263303 per 1,000 people
# 32 Romania: 0.0250784 per 1,000 people
# 33 Portugal: 0.0233769 per 1,000 people
# 34 Malaysia: 0.0230034 per 1,000 people
# 35 Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of: 0.0229829 per 1,000 people
# 36 Mauritius: 0.021121 per 1,000 people
# 37 Hungary: 0.0204857 per 1,000 people
# 38 Korea, South: 0.0196336 per 1,000 people
# 39 Slovenia: 0.0179015 per 1,000 people
# 40 France: 0.0173272 per 1,000 people
# 41 Czech Republic: 0.0169905 per 1,000 people
# 42 Iceland: 0.0168499 per 1,000 people
# 43 Australia: 0.0150324 per 1,000 people
# 44 Canada: 0.0149063 per 1,000 people
# 45 Chile: 0.014705 per 1,000 people
# 46 United Kingdom: 0.0140633 per 1,000 people
# 47 Italy: 0.0128393 per 1,000 people
# 48 Spain: 0.0122456 per 1,000 people
# 49 Germany: 0.0116461 per 1,000 people
# 50 Tunisia: 0.0112159 per 1,000 people
# 51 Netherlands: 0.0111538 per 1,000 people
# 52 New Zealand: 0.0111524 per 1,000 people
# 53 Denmark: 0.0106775 per 1,000 people
# 54 Norway: 0.0106684 per 1,000 people
# 55 Ireland: 0.00946215 per 1,000 people
# 56 Switzerland: 0.00921351 per 1,000 people
# 57 Indonesia: 0.00910842 per 1,000 people
# 58 Greece: 0.0075928 per 1,000 people
# 59 Hong Kong: 0.00550804 per 1,000 people
# 60 Japan: 0.00499933 per 1,000 people
# 61 Saudi Arabia: 0.00397456 per 1,000 people
# 62 Qatar: 0.00115868 per 1,000 people
Weighted average: 0.1 per 1,000 people





DEFINITION: Total recorded intentional homicides, completed. Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence. Per capita figures expressed per 1,000 population.


SOURCE: Seventh United Nations Survey of Crime Trends and Operations of Criminal Justice Systems, covering the period 1998 - 2000 (United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, Centre for International Crime Prevention) via NationMaster

Looks like it has to me....just saying
 
Alright ptif. If the ATF ever comes to your house and tries to take away your guns just shoot the **** outta them with whatever you got. stock up on whatever you need, and take all those nasty Feds out or go out in a blaze of glory.

Why should I have to? Keep gun ownership legal
 
The answer is to commit these people not make anti gun laws

Don't commit them --- just evaluate them even if it involuntary for 24-48 hours and if they've got mental issues and the hospital cannot keep them under current law, have have their record marked that they cannot purchase weapons of any kind, until they have been cleared by a certified / licensed mental health practicioner.
 
The answer is to commit these people not make anti gun laws

I'm not sure there's much need. These are isolated cases and are very low probability events. Sure with enough time, you'll see the probability work out. But in the end, I don't know what can be done to document and commit these people. Maybe in this one case there could have been something. But it's not going to dramatically affect the system by trying to make changes other than offering a much higher chance of government force used against the rights of the individual.
 
Of course and if you think the constitution needs interpretation then you can look at the intentions of those who authored the amendments in the constitution.




You do not know that we have an amendment process for repealing or adding amendments to the constitution. The most recent one the 27th added in 1992.

So why is the 2nd so important? Can it not be amended, but slavery can?
 
You gotta watch out for the ATF. They've shown that they are more than willing to set fire to your compound and watch everyone inside burn to death.

Seems entirely avoidable if you don't shoot back at someone trying to execute a legal search warrant. And to this day there's still debate as to who actually set the fire.
 
More like partisan hackery

So do you or do you not support gun ownership?

Do you or do you not want the government to prevent gay marriage and abortion?

Thus, not partisan hackery!
 
tlmorg02 said:
Looks like it has to me....just saying

What's that list got to do with guns or gun laws? And your list doesn't have anything to do with the gun bans in the U.K. or Australia - which is a rights issue, not a homicide issue.
 
Hindsight my friend. He "could have" "might have" had enough people acted. But they didn't. And the police and college folks had both the ample power and reason to get the ball going and dropped it. I don't believe hindsight is wisdom.

Shows we need laws to commit nut cases not gun laws
 
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Seems entirely avoidable if you don't shoot back at someone trying to execute a legal search warrant. And to this day there's still debate as to who actually set the fire.

Ahh yes, let them run roughshod over you and you'll have nothing to worry about. Very nice.
 
So you think it is bad to stop mentally imbalanced people from obtaining assault rifles?

I don't have a problem with this, however, loughner wasn't judged to be mentally ill. There is no legislation that can be passed that would have changed this situation......at all.
 
That's what i'm saying. The probably if gun ownership becoming illegal within the near future, or even into the foreseeable future, is virtually nil.

And we can ensure that it is actually nil by not overreacting to isolated, low probability events.
 
What's that list got to do with guns or gun laws? And your list doesn't have anything to do with the gun bans in the U.K. or Australia - which is a rights issue, not a homicide issue.

The point is, countries with gun laws have lower murder rates.....do I really have to explain this to you?
 
Looks like it has to me....just saying

United nations
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I'm not sure there's much need. These are isolated cases and are very low probability events. Sure with enough time, you'll see the probability work out. But in the end, I don't know what can be done to document and commit these people. Maybe in this one case there could have been something. But it's not going to dramatically affect the system by trying to make changes other than offering a much higher chance of government force used against the rights of the individual.

When people see signs of them being unstable there should be ways to have them evaluated
 
So why is the 2nd so important?

Can it not be amended, but slavery can?

The 2nd amendment is viewed as an extremeness important right because it ensures that citizens have the ability to remove the government if it became tyrannical,It ensures that citizens can defend themselves from criminals and invasion. It can still be amended.

2nd amendment proponents use the lie that the "constitution is a living document" to **** on the 2nd amendment because they know that they can not get the support to amend the constitution to remove it.
 
I don't have a problem with this, however, loughner wasn't judged to be mentally ill. There is no legislation that can be passed that would have changed this situation......at all.


When was Loughner's mental health evaluated prior to the shooting? He wasn't judged mentally ill because he wasn't evaluated.

Regarding the legislation comment, you may have missed this from a previous post: Loughner could have been committed under Arizona law - USATODAY.com
 
So do you or do you not support gun ownership?

Do you or do you not want the government to prevent gay marriage and abortion?

Thus, not partisan hackery!

Not the point. People said those would never happen yet hear we are. Now we have liberals saying don't worry your guns are safe. It is the liberals trying to get us to let our guard down once again

I am not a republican
 
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And we can ensure that it is actually nil by not overreacting to isolated, low probability events.

Innocent people get shot the **** up every single day all across America. Prince George's County, in Maryland, where I go to college, experienced 13 murders in 13 days. The only reason we're even talking about Loughner is that it happened on the national stage. Seems to me nobody really likes to touch the issue until real **** happens on TV.
 
The point is, countries with gun laws have lower murder rates.....do I really have to explain this to you?

Yes you do. Your link and quote says nothing about guns... just homicides and murders. Do I have to explain how many ways a person can be killed or murdered WITHOUT a gun? Either you link your nonsense statistics to gun use, or it's bupkus, which I already know it is.
 
So we need guns in our homes to protect against armed intruders....?

Or rattle snakes.

I know people who've had intruders come into their home in the middle of the night. I'd damn sure wish I had a gun if that happened.
 
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