School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their academic

[American]

Link

By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 11:21 PM on 26th January 2011

A high school in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, is defending its decision to segregate its students by race and gender.
The scheme, at McCaskey East High School, separates black students from the rest of the school body, and then further breaks it down into black females and black males.
The separation is only for a short period - six minutes each day and 20 minutes twice a month - but it naturally drew criticism for bringing back the awful memory of racial segregation.
Today the school's principal defended its policy.

This is amazing, isn't it? Hatuey is going to have a field day with this.

 

[spud_meister]

Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

:shock: An entire 6 minutes, it's like Jim Crow all over again.

 

[Your Star]

Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

What's the point to this?

 

[spud_meister]

Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

What's the point to this?

It's an experiment to see if a subset of students with the lowest all-round performance perform better in a homogeneous environment, if it's shown to improve their grades, it's a good thing, and if it doesn't, there's no harm done.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

Bill Jimenez said the school noticed that black students were not performing as well as other students, and that research had shown that same-race classes with strong same-race role models led to better academic results.

I had no idea such research had even been done. Quite frankly wouldn't have even expected it considering today's political corrrectness. I'd like to see that report before I draw any conclusions about this. If such a report was honest and factual with its data then I wouldn't mind...so long as it had been peer reviewed also.

 

[Kandahar]

Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

Wow, this is unbelievably stupid on the school's part, if it's actually true. The fact that it was only six minutes per day makes me suspect that there's something more than meets the eye to this story...after all, how much can you really learn in six minutes? But yeah, racial segregation is a horrendous idea.

It's an experiment to see if a subset of students with the lowest all-round performance perform better in a homogeneous environment, if it's shown to improve their grades, it's a good thing, and if it doesn't, there's no harm done.

That's what remedial classes are for. Presumably some of the black students do fine, and some of the non-black students are underperforming. Separating them by race is segregation, pure and simple.

I had no idea such research had even been done. Quite frankly wouldn't have even expected it considering today's political corrrectness. I'd like to see that report before I draw any conclusions about this. If such a report was honest and factual with its data then I wouldn't mind...so long as it had been peer reviewed also.

I can buy the same-race role model argument...but not the segregation aspect. We should be concerned about boosting individual performance, not the performance of an arbitrary group of people. The black students who need extra help should get it, and those who don't should not. Just like students of any other race.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

I can buy the same-race role model argument...but not the segregation aspect. We should be concerned about boosting individual performance, not the performance of an arbitrary group of people. The black students who need extra help should get it, and those who don't should not. Just like students of any other race.

Underlined part: Doesn't the same-race role model argument sort of imply segregation?

Bold part: Isn't that what this school is trying to do? Granted it is applied to the whole group..but if something works for the ones that are not doing as well as others then wouldn't it also work for the ones that are doing well also?

I'm a firm believer in doing whatever it takes to improve childrens education and acadamia performance. If this plan of thiers works then why not use it? Political Correctness? I'm not a fan of it. IMO people need to grow thicker skins and start using things that work and at least try things that might work and peoples feelings be damned.

 

[Kandahar]

Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

Underlined part: Doesn't the same-race role model argument sort of imply segregation?

Not necessarily. You can introduce students to same-race role models simply by having a diverse faculty.

Bold part: Isn't that what this school is trying to do? Granted it is applied to the whole group..but if something works for the ones that are not doing as well as others then wouldn't it also work for the ones that are doing well also?

No. Saying that blacks as a group will improve says nothing about how individual blacks will do. If the black students in the school are underperforming as a group, then of course their aggregate statistics will improve if they're segregated, for the same reason that ANY underperforming group of students would improve if put in special classes. But that's hardly fair to the talented black students or the struggling non-black students. Ultimately, this solution uses race as a proxy for academic performance...so why not just use ACTUAL academic performance measures to segregate the underperforming students?

I'm a firm believer in doing whatever it takes to improve childrens education and acadamia performance. If this plan of thiers works then why not use it? Political Correctness? I'm not a fan of it. IMO people need to grow thicker skins and start using things that work and at least try things that might work and peoples feelings be damned.

I'm less offended by the political incorrectness of it, than just plain skeptical that it will work. I don't mind innovative solutions, but at the same time I'm not going to support an initiative just because it's edgy and un-PC.

 

[EnigmaO01]

Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

This brings back fond memories of the 6th grade and teacher that ran the class like a dictatorship. A year before that I had a traumatic thing happen to me that caused me to crawl into a shell and basically become very very shy around people. It was absolute terror for me to just give an oral book report. The teacher in all her wisdom separated myself and a girl who was also shy, from the rest of the class because she assumed we were dumb. (The girl had a nervous disorder). Turns out the teacher was embarrassed when she got back my achievement test scores and I was at a level above the 6th grade. I actually started 1st grade at the age of 4 so I wasn't really stupid.



My point is if you think this is bad you should see what went on 30 or more years ago. My sister was duck taped to a chair because she couldn't sit still. Educators are still doing stupid things but nothing like they were years ago.

 

[American]

Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

I wonder if Hatuey is being silent because it's the liberal school system doing it. Here we have what appears to be a clear case of segregation, and crickets.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

That's what remedial classes are for. Presumably some of the black students do fine, and some of the non-black students are underperforming. Separating them by race is segregation, pure and simple.

There are some education experts who suggest that black culture has a correlation to school underperformance. It has little to do with income. I've seen folks argue that interventions should be culturally based. Perhaps that is what this plan is attempting to do.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

I wonder if Hatuey is being silent because it's the liberal school system doing it. Here we have what appears to be a clear case of segregation, and crickets.

Or because he has a life...Don't you have an x-box or something to amuse you when Hatuey isn't online?

 

[Kandahar]

Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

I wonder if Hatuey is being silent because it's the liberal school system doing it. Here we have what appears to be a clear case of segregation, and crickets.

Huh? Why does it matter if it's a liberal or conservative school system? For that matter, how do you even know that it *is* a "liberal school system" (whatever that means)? The article certainly says nothing of the sort. It's a shame that you found an interesting topic, and then instead of discussing it you decided to be a partisan troll.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

Here's a much better article about what's going on....

McCaskey tries new mentoring program

 

[Kal'Stang]

Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

Huh? Why does it matter if it's a liberal or conservative school system? For that matter, how do you even know that it *is* a "liberal school system" (whatever that means)? The article certainly says nothing of the sort. It's a shame that you found an interesting topic, and then instead of discussing it you decided to be a partisan troll.

Actually to be perfectly fair I would have to deem it a liberal school system also. While looking into the OP's article I read about the school from its own website and read what its objectives are and about its history. It all points to being liberal.

But you are certainly right that whether it is liberal or not doesn't matter. All that matters is the results. I also agree that it appears that American was just being a troll.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

Research has shown, Tilghman said, that grouping black students by gender with a strong role model can help boost their academic achievement and self-esteem.

Isn't school performance a non-partisan issue?

 

[Whovian]

Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

Here's a much better article about what's going on....

McCaskey tries new mentoring program

I liked this idea...

In Thedford's class, for instance, students weren't assigned seats but were asked to sit at desks at which he had placed such name tags as "doctor," "friend," "lawyer" and "father."

When his pupils arrived, Thedford asked them to sit at the name tag that applied to them, and the class spent several days talking about what it takes to be those people.

"Once they said it, they were put to the task to aspire to be that person on the card," Thedford said. "Believe it or not, those kids got a sense of ownership.

"If you can get a bunch of kids, no matter what nationality or ethnicity, to buy into something that nobody ever said they could do, that's a good thing."

Then why break them up to begin with?

 

[Catz Part Deux]

Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

Then why break them up to begin with?

Because students need to relate to each other. However, black students, in particular, seem to struggle academically, for cultural reasons that aren't immediately apparent.

There is an anti-academic culture in a lot of black communities, and in some cases, black kids who excel in school are viewed as sellouts and losers by their peers. This isn't just an urban poor thing, it applies just as much to middle and upper income black families. This school is recognizing the existence of this stigma about school success, and is attempting to change the values of the black peer culture. In other words, making it cool to excel in school.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

I liked this idea...

I noted that to. Plan on talking to some teachers in my area about it.

Then why break them up to begin with?

From what I can tell it seems to be based on self identification. Black students will probably identify with black teachers more than that of white teachers. I noticed in the comments section this comment...

I have the honor of being on the faculty of the J.P. McCaskey Campus. I also know the students well, and have worked very hard to build relationships with my kids. However, I have heard from some of my students, kids that are not white, that they have been at Park City for example, shopping with money in their pockets from their own jobs They have been followed, interrupted, hassled, almost interrogated by employees of stores - and the only reason they can come up with is the color of their skin. Most often by store employees who are white. Granted, some youth from any background and of any color, race or ethnicity will shoplift, and stores must attend to loss prevention - but focus should be on the behavior and not the color.

Now, I as a white male am, realistically, not the best person to try and get to an earnest open dialogue with some of these students. There is just a little too much history on their side to trust me from the get-go. Over time, perhaps. Given this cold,hard fact the mentoring program, which is not placing any student group in isolation, deserves a solid attempt and trial. If it yields very good results, then who would be losing out?

What he says there in the bold part is true.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

It's an experiment to see if a subset of students with the lowest all-round performance perform better in a homogeneous environment, if it's shown to improve their grades, it's a good thing, and if it doesn't, there's no harm done.

I had no idea such research had even been done. Quite frankly wouldn't have even expected it considering today's political corrrectness. I'd like to see that report before I draw any conclusions about this. If such a report was honest and factual with its data then I wouldn't mind...so long as it had been peer reviewed also.

Six minutes a day. Twenty minutes twice a month. Yeah, there's a scientific study. Let's bank those results. The mentoring aspect is an excellent one. It doesn't take segregation to check that out.

 

[American]

Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

Or because he has a life...Don't you have an x-box or something to amuse you when Hatuey isn't online?

I don't own a game console, which one do you use?

 

[Catz Part Deux]

Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

I don't own a game console, which one do you use?

My son loves his xbox 360 250gb.

 

[American]

Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

Huh? Why does it matter if it's a liberal or conservative school system? For that matter, how do you even know that it *is* a "liberal school system" (whatever that means)? The article certainly says nothing of the sort. It's a shame that you found an interesting topic, and then instead of discussing it you decided to be a partisan troll.

Are you serious?

 

[Catz Part Deux]

Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

Six minutes a day. Twenty minutes twice a month. Yeah, there's a scientific study. Let's bank those results. The mentoring aspect is an excellent one. It doesn't take segregation to check that out.

Why do you assume that this is insufficient time for some good purpose to occur? The issue with teenagers isn't spending massive amounts of time with them. It's CONSISTENTLY spending time with them so that you can build a relationship over time, and see when you need to step in.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

Why do you assume that this is insufficient time for some good purpose to occur? The issue with teenagers isn't spending massive amounts of time with them. It's CONSISTENTLY spending time with them so that you can build a relationship over time, and see when you need to step in.

If you think six minutes a day is time enough to form meaningful relationships, I don't know what to say. But I know I wouldn't want to be your boyfriend. ;-) ;-)