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School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their academic

Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

If you think six minutes a day is time enough to form meaningful relationships, I don't know what to say. But I know I wouldn't want to be your boyfriend. ;-) ;-)

I don't think its about building up so much of a "meaningful" relationship as it is just about the relationship period. IMO a teacher should not build meaningful relationships with students. But they do need a relationship with which to find common ground.

If you spent 6 minutes a day with the same person for a year don't you think that you would eventually start to trust that person? I'm not saying that you have to trust them in all things. But wouldn't you trust thier word over someone whom you had just met? Catz is right that consistancy is key.
 
Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

If you think six minutes a day is time enough to form meaningful relationships, I don't know what to say. But I know I wouldn't want to be your boyfriend. ;-) ;-)

These are teachers, not mentors. They already spend time with these kids in the classroom. This time is above and beyond that classroom time for a specific intent.

Also, 6 minutes is a long time, depending on what you're doing. :mrgreen:
 
Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

Link


This is amazing, isn't it? Hatuey is going to have a field day with this.

Hahaha, so the Bell Curve is back in style eh?
 
Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

I don't think its about building up so much of a "meaningful" relationship as it is just about the relationship period. IMO a teacher should not build meaningful relationships with students. But they do need a relationship with which to find common ground.

What? Teachers should't build meaningful relationships with students? Are you kidding me? The best teachers on the planet earth build relationships with their students...ones of trust, fair play, concern, positive reinforcement, respect. I'm not talking about sex, you know. ;-)

If you spent 6 minutes a day with the same person for a year don't you think that you would eventually start to trust that person? I'm not saying that you have to trust them in all things. But wouldn't you trust thier word over someone whom you had just met? Catz is right that consistancy is key.

Yeah, perhaps. But my initial post was that this wasn't a test I personally would put much credence in. And I'll still stand by that. The idea that consistency is the key reminds me of what working parents try to tell themselves: It's not about how much time I spend, it's about quality time. It's both.
 
Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

I had no idea such research had even been done. Quite frankly wouldn't have even expected it considering today's political corrrectness. I'd like to see that report before I draw any conclusions about this. If such a report was honest and factual with its data then I wouldn't mind...so long as it had been peer reviewed also.

Sociologists and psychologists put an extensive amount of reserach and effort into trying to understand every factor that goes into all our many issues in the country.
It's not new as far as research goes.

She said research had shown that grouping black students by gender with a strong role model could boost both academic achievement and self-esteem.

Some students, staff and parents were against the segregation, saying that it ran against everything the school stood for - with students from diverse backgrounds.

But it was something Mr Jimenez thought was worth trying.

In all segregated classes, mentors track their students' grades, test scores and attendance.

One such mentor is Michael Mitchell, who hopes to inspire his black male students during their short daily meetings.

What it sounds like here is just a get-together - more like a support group session than anything else.

I don't see anything wrong with ti - they're not being treated poorly, punished, or withheld from activities. He seems like he's wanting to connect with them on a mature level which would be highly beneficial.

A lot of extensive research shows that when youth are with other youth who share the same traits or interests they form a more positive bond and closeness which helps them grow positively and be supportive - independent and self-reliant as well as boosting feelings of self-worth and personal value.

I don't see the harm. My son is in a special-ed program that does something similar for special-ed students.
 
Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

Yeah, perhaps. But my initial post was that this wasn't a test I personally would put much credence in. And I'll still stand by that. The idea that consistency is the key reminds me of what working parents try to tell themselves: It's not about how much time I spend, it's about quality time. It's both.

This isn't about connecting between the teachers and the kids. It's about connecting the kids to each other and to the idea of scholarship.
 
Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

sounds like the idea itself may have value, but 6 minutes? you can't even get them in their seats in 6 minutes.
 
Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

sounds like the idea itself may have value, but 6 minutes? you can't even get them in their seats in 6 minutes.

I think this is to accomodate the idea, first - test the waters. I'm sure many are like "Oh, just 6 minutes - sure"
 
Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

Because students need to relate to each other. However, black students, in particular, seem to struggle academically, for cultural reasons that aren't immediately apparent.

There is an anti-academic culture in a lot of black communities, and in some cases, black kids who excel in school are viewed as sellouts and losers by their peers. This isn't just an urban poor thing, it applies just as much to middle and upper income black families. This school is recognizing the existence of this stigma about school success, and is attempting to change the values of the black peer culture. In other words, making it cool to excel in school.

As someone that has attended an urban school you hit the nail right on the head. Additoinally has anyone noticed how smart whites are treated in black sitcoms? Then there's Erkel. Anyone remember that sitcom? Bill Cosby talks about this all the time.
 
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Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

As someone that has attended an urban school you hit the nail right on the head. Additoinally has anyone noticed how smart whites are treated in black sitcoms? Then there's Erkel. Anyone remember that sitcom? Bill Cosby talks about this all the time.

Always liked Bill Cosby. One of the FEW celebrities that I always wanted to meet in person.
 
Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

"The idea originated with Angela Tilghman, a McCaskey East instructional coach who was alarmed at the poor academic performance of the school's black students.
Only about a third of McCaskey's African-Americans scored proficient or advanced in reading on last year's PSSAs, compared with 60 percent of white students and 42 percent of all students.
Math scores were even worse, with just 27 percent of black pupils scoring proficient or advanced."
Read more: McCaskey tries new mentoring program - LancasterOnline.com News

I dont care if the have them stand on their heads, walk in circles and chant, burn incense, or whatever else they want to try. The individuals they are trying to help have been failing under the old system. If this works. Well done. If it doesnt, well...try something different.
 
Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

This doesn't quite pass the sniff test to me. Six minutes a day isn't going to do squat for anyone's academic performance. I mean, that's laughable. Segregating students by race throws all manner of warning flags in my head. I don't care about gender. Adolescents are so danged hormonal that six minutes a day without lusting after that hunky jock or getting an erection because a female tank top showed two inches of side boob is probably a good thing. The race thing takes me back to a time that I don't want to see again. There is no logical reason for this. None. Whatsoever.

Now if this is some kind of cultural support group... although how 6 minutes of "cultural support" a day could possibly be enlightening eludes my grasp... then let the school come out and say so. I just can't buy the "it will improve academic permance hooey." It won't. It can't.

Personally I've spent a part of my life marching against segregation. I hate it with every fiber of my being. To re-implement such a foul policy on any level at all makes me crazy. This not only doesn't pass the sniff test, it actually reeks to high heaven.
 
Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

This doesn't quite pass the sniff test to me. Six minutes a day isn't going to do squat for anyone's academic performance. I mean, that's laughable. Segregating students by race throws all manner of warning flags in my head. I don't care about gender. Adolescents are so danged hormonal that six minutes a day without lusting after that hunky jock or getting an erection because a female tank top showed two inches of side boob is probably a good thing. The race thing takes me back to a time that I don't want to see again. There is no logical reason for this. None. Whatsoever.

Now if this is some kind of cultural support group... although how 6 minutes of "cultural support" a day could possibly be enlightening eludes my grasp... then let the school come out and say so. I just can't buy the "it will improve academic permance hooey." It won't. It can't.

Personally I've spent a part of my life marching against segregation. I hate it with every fiber of my being. To re-implement such a foul policy on any level at all makes me crazy. This not only doesn't pass the sniff test, it actually reeks to high heaven.

So because in the past we treated race, overall, negatively - we cant ever approach issues on a race-basis? Truth of the matter is that sometimes race is a divide - health wise, academically - and I don't scold if they ahve an obvious problem and are trying to figure out what to do about it.

Now I don't think this is going to actually help, either - because I feel that issues of the schooling nature are cultural and come more from familial views and support and so forth. But I'm sure that if the students felt like they were being treated *negatively* in this whole deal that they'd certainly put that out there.
 
Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

Underlined part: Doesn't the same-race role model argument sort of imply segregation?

Bold part: Isn't that what this school is trying to do? Granted it is applied to the whole group..but if something works for the ones that are not doing as well as others then wouldn't it also work for the ones that are doing well also?

I'm a firm believer in doing whatever it takes to improve childrens education and acadamia performance. If this plan of thiers works then why not use it? Political Correctness? I'm not a fan of it. IMO people need to grow thicker skins and start using things that work and at least try things that might work and peoples feelings be damned.

Not always. Putting people who can't read through basic reading classes might help them, but putting people who are reading well into basic reading classes is just a waste of their time which could be better spent on more advance subjects. Personally, nothing puts me off school more than being bored with things I already learned.

The articles says that a third of the black students scored well in reading compared to 2/3 of whites. So the 2/3 of blacks and 1/3 of whites should be having remedial reading classes together. Why drag the 1/3 of blacks who are doing well into this group, and leave the 1/3 of whites who are not doing well behind? How fair is it to group the 1/3 of blacks who did well into the "black" group who need such special help they need to be segregated? And 1/3 of whites need help too, why are they being left out?
 
Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

Because students need to relate to each other. However, black students, in particular, seem to struggle academically, for cultural reasons that aren't immediately apparent.

There is an anti-academic culture in a lot of black communities, and in some cases, black kids who excel in school are viewed as sellouts and losers by their peers. This isn't just an urban poor thing, it applies just as much to middle and upper income black families. This school is recognizing the existence of this stigma about school success, and is attempting to change the values of the black peer culture. In other words, making it cool to excel in school.

Then they ought to institute this programe school wide so as not to single out blacks. Have White and Hispanics and Asian home room classes too. Just because Whites as a group did better than the black group doesn't mean all whites do well. The white students (and all other students too) who falls behind need help too.
 
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Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

I can understand segregation based on sex, since many studies have found beneficial (especially for girls) aspects of doing so... but on skin colour/race? This is one hair brained idea that is for sure.
 
Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

This doesn't quite pass the sniff test to me. Six minutes a day isn't going to do squat for anyone's academic performance. I mean, that's laughable. Segregating students by race throws all manner of warning flags in my head. I don't care about gender. Adolescents are so danged hormonal that six minutes a day without lusting after that hunky jock or getting an erection because a female tank top showed two inches of side boob is probably a good thing. The race thing takes me back to a time that I don't want to see again. There is no logical reason for this. None. Whatsoever.

Now if this is some kind of cultural support group... although how 6 minutes of "cultural support" a day could possibly be enlightening eludes my grasp... then let the school come out and say so. I just can't buy the "it will improve academic permance hooey." It won't. It can't.

Personally I've spent a part of my life marching against segregation. I hate it with every fiber of my being. To re-implement such a foul policy on any level at all makes me crazy. This not only doesn't pass the sniff test, it actually reeks to high heaven.

If you read the link I gave earlier you would see that there are students that are saying they like it (and of course they admit that some don't also). And some of the teachers admitting that they have seen a marked difference in the students attitudes..for the positive. A positive attitude is key in learning.
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It just amazes me how many people in this thread think that 6 minutes won't change a thing. Especially when there are things that happen in this world that take FAR less time (seconds even) that do and have changed peoples lives. 6 minutes, every day for the whole school year? Yeah...its going to affect people. Take a look at advertising. You get those 30-60 second blurbs about <insert product here> over and over on a consistant basis and what happens? People eventually buy the product just to try it out. If it didn't work then why would companies even bother? And thats not even on a person to person basis. Unlike this schools idea.
 
Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

I can understand segregation based on sex, since many studies have found beneficial (especially for girls) aspects of doing so... but on skin colour/race? This is one hair brained idea that is for sure.

It really shouldn't be suprising. Integration used to be a noble concept but now it is a joke. We've set up new laws of segregation. We still encourage things like the Black Miss America contest, traditionally black schools, African Americanism, all kind of black centric celebrations and groups, all of it very much encouraging separation from everyone else. Set asides and quotas according to race should be a thing of the past by now but have become entrenched within our ideaology. The same people who bristle at the idea that blacks are somehow naturally inferior to whites often treat them like they are inferior. I think this may be one of those cases.
 
Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

I can understand segregation based on sex, since many studies have found beneficial (especially for girls) aspects of doing so... but on skin colour/race? This is one hair brained idea that is for sure.

Minority students in the U.S. continue to underperform. The economic status of black families has risen, but their children's academic performance has not. School districts are desperate to meet academic performance goals, and at this point, are willing to try almost anything to help black students succeed in school.
 
Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

It really shouldn't be suprising. Integration used to be a noble concept but now it is a joke. We've set up new laws of segregation. We still encourage things like the Black Miss America contest, traditionally black schools, African Americanism, all kind of black centric celebrations and groups, all of it very much encouraging separation from everyone else. Set asides and quotas according to race should be a thing of the past by now but have become entrenched within our ideaology. The same people who bristle at the idea that blacks are somehow naturally inferior to whites often treat them like they are inferior. I think this may be one of those cases.

This is true. The same people constantly playing the race card are the same people that are constantly seperating black Americans in all sorts of ways.
 
Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

Minority students in the U.S. continue to underperform. The economic status of black families has risen, but their children's academic performance has not. School districts are desperate to meet academic performance goals, and at this point, are willing to try almost anything to help black students succeed in school.

This is also very true. There's obviously something ingrained in the current black culture that makes academic achievement seem somewhat unimportant, or perhaps even undesirable, among young black Americans.
 
Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

This is also very true. There's obviously something ingrained in the current black culture that makes academic achievement seem somewhat unimportant, or perhaps even undesirable, among young black Americans.

It's not just that this is occurring within the peer culture. Black families do not prioritize their child's education the way that other cultures do. Black families tend to believe that education is the school's job. Even if they are affluent, they may not spend money on books, computers, etc. that will support their child's education. They do not see their role as standing over their child, making him/her do homework (in general). There are numerous studies that document this issue.
 
Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

It's not just that this is occurring within the peer culture. Black families do not prioritize their child's education the way that other cultures do. Black families tend to believe that education is the school's job. Even if they are affluent, they may not spend money on books, computers, etc. that will support their child's education. They do not see their role as standing over their child, making him/her do homework (in general). There are numerous studies that document this issue.

Unfortunately, this is a problem in a LOT of households, but it is true that it is more predominant in black (and Hispanic, btw) families. I've heard from some Hispanic people I know that it is somewhat disrespectful to "outperform" your parents in school or work. Many expect their kids to carry on the family as is.
 
Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

So because in the past we treated race, overall, negatively - we cant ever approach issues on a race-basis? Truth of the matter is that sometimes race is a divide - health wise, academically - and I don't scold if they ahve an obvious problem and are trying to figure out what to do about it.

Now I don't think this is going to actually help, either - because I feel that issues of the schooling nature are cultural and come more from familial views and support and so forth. But I'm sure that if the students felt like they were being treated *negatively* in this whole deal that they'd certainly put that out there.

I'm not really concerned with whether the students like it or not... no, I'm not a meanie, I just raised 5 teenagers and what they like isn't necessarily what they need. I'm concerned that, as you stated, this is quite unlikely to help because it doesn't support the root of the problem: cultural differences in educational priorities.

The school is trying to do something, but they should either go big or go home. If they honestly believe that these kids need cultural support, then for heaven sake give it to them. Give them blocks of time in a cultural support group, not 6 stupid minutes a day. Schedule time where families can attend for group discussions. If black and latino children in that school need more one-on-one time than white children, give it to them. Talking the talk isn't walking the walk. A 45 minute support group meeting every day to discuss educational problems as a group as well as to hear individual kids express their own needs might actually do something.

But they should stop referring to this as "segregation". That word makes my skin crawl. All other classes must remain integrated, and support groups need sufficient time to actually discover what kind of help each group needs, and to give it to them. It strikes me as a laudible goal with an untenable plan as currently laid out.
 
Re: School defends experiment to separate black students in a bid to boost their acad

I'm not really concerned with whether the students like it or not... no, I'm not a meanie, I just raised 5 teenagers and what they like isn't necessarily what they need. I'm concerned that, as you stated, this is quite unlikely to help because it doesn't support the root of the problem: cultural differences in educational priorities.

In this case it appears that what they like, and what they need, is the same thing. Though I think that we should ultimately hold back most of our decision on this programme and see what the test scores turn out to be and see if they are higher than previous scores. (note I said "most"..not all ;) )
 
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