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Republican Party unity cracks over raising $14.3 trillion debt ceiling

Zyroh

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Republican Party unity cracks over raising $14.3 trillion debt ceiling

The Republican Study Committee (RSC) introduced legislation on Wednesday that it says would allow the Treasury Department to avoid a default on U.S. debt without expanding the borrowing limit.
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The legislation “ensures America’s debt rating and the threat of default on our debt cannot be used as political weapons,” said RSC member and co-sponsor Rep. Scott Garrett (R-N.J.). “This bill will remind the markets and the world that America will never default on its debt while giving Congress time to have a meaningful, reasonable discussion about how to rein in out-of-control spending.”
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The RSC’s Full Faith and Credit Act would require the Treasury to pay principal and interest due on public debt before making any other payments. Sen. Pat Toomey (R-Pa.) has introduced companion legislation in the Senate.

we've all had our points in at some time on whether or not to raise the debt ceiling, now the real question for those that don't want to raise it any more: do you really want to continue to pay the lenders to this country at the expense of the poorest americans that rely on government handouts? if so, i suggest you look at why people are rioting and setting themselves on fire in tunisia, egypt, and saudi arabia right now. why ireland and greece are almost at a state of anarchy.
 
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I don't understand why we even have to go through these theatrics every few months or so. When I'm on a budget, I don't get to raise it whenever I want. Congress, either stick to the limit and cut the deficit or eliminate the limit. I hate massive deficits, but I hate contrived bull**** just as much.
 
I don't understand why we even have to go through these theatrics every few months or so. When I'm on a budget, I don't get to raise it whenever I want. Congress, either stick to the limit and cut the deficit or eliminate the limit. I hate massive deficits, but I hate contrived bull**** just as much.

the question is if you quit paying bond holders or quit paying government obligations such as food stamps, social security, medicare, defense. i just want to know if people are willing to cut off the poor and let the riots commence so that china, japan, calpers, pimco all keep collecting their government checks.
 
there is little doubt that ultimately my party will agree, surely closer to the end of the game than the beginning, to yet another hike in the ceiling

you are also correct to point out that this is the most problematical of our particular platforms

the only real question is what my side will DEMAND in return

let me assure you, it will be SUBSTANTIAL

enough to placate the preponderance of our more principled tea party membership who are far more hip to power and realpolitik than most presume

precisely our approach is still open to planning, we have, it is true, still not committed

it's not time

i could tell you today what our chips are likely to be, but i don't want to, it's not in my interest

you'll see in due course

it will, as always, be up to the electorate to decide whom they deem the more fiscally responsible, their approval or reproach for the various players involved

i'd hate to be in the president's or pelosi's penny loafers, for example

party on

good post
 
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I don't understand why we even have to go through these theatrics every few months or so. When I'm on a budget, I don't get to raise it whenever I want. Congress, either stick to the limit and cut the deficit or eliminate the limit. I hate massive deficits, but I hate contrived bull**** just as much.

Of course our government can raise the debt ceiling. Why? Because they have this process called monetization of the debt. That's what it's called when the government prints money. When you or I do it, it's called counterfeiting. Go figure. LOL.
 
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the question is if you quit paying bond holders or quit paying government obligations such as food stamps, social security, medicare, defense. i just want to know if people are willing to cut off the poor and let the riots commence so that china, japan, calpers, pimco all keep collecting their government checks.

You can cut in plenty of places. Our spending used to be a lot lower, and the Proletariat was not raising the barricades. Of course these cuts need to be done in a well thought out manner, and simply cutting to cut won't solve much. However, we have to face up to the reality that our fiscal course is not sustainable.
 
it will, as always, be up to the electorate to decide whom they deem the more fiscally responsible, their approval or reproach for the various players involved

see, this is the only problem i have prof. we don't get much of a choice as far as fiscally responsibility goes. the last senate vote of '10 was a 100-0 vote on the full defense budget. neither the president nor the republicans are proposing a cut in entitlements. do we really get a choice of fiscal responsibility? you mention some concessions in exchange for the ceiling hike, and when that happens we may have a different choice, but until that happens every time anyone believed a politician was gonna be fiscally responsible, or provide an avenue other than 'cuts in nondefense, discrescenary spending' or 'raise everyone's taxes', they were disappointed.
 
You can cut in plenty of places. Our spending used to be a lot lower, and the Proletariat was not raising the barricades. Of course these cuts need to be done in a well thought out manner, and simply cutting to cut won't solve much. However, we have to face up to the reality that our fiscal course is not sustainable.

during these times of lower spending sans riots did we have 25% underemployment? did we have 2 public wars and a dozen private wars? did we have double digit food price inflation? i agree that we do a good job keeping the rioting to a minimum around here, but people won't care too much that they have beer and football if their kids are starving.
 
during these times of lower spending sans riots did we have 25% underemployment? did we have 2 public wars and a dozen private wars? did we have double digit food price inflation? i agree that we do a good job keeping the rioting to a minimum around here, but people won't care too much that they have beer and football if their kids are starving.

If they don't have an honest job, they can always become politicians. All they have to do is learn to lie with a straight face. :mrgreen:
 
Republican Party unity cracks over raising $14.3 trillion debt ceiling



we've all had our points in at some time on whether or not to raise the debt ceiling, now the real question for those that don't want to raise it any more: do you really want to continue to pay the lenders to this country at the expense of the poorest americans that rely on government handouts? if so, i suggest you look at why people are rioting and setting themselves on fire in tunisia, egypt, and saudi arabia right now. why ireland and greece are almost at a state of anarchy.

Keep playing the "gov't has to care for people game" and we'll continue to fall off the map in debt.
 
Where was all this Republican bitching about debt when Bush was President? Where was all the doom and gloom about bankruptcy then? Does everyone think all this debt suddenly materialized in 2009 when the markets went under?
 
Keep playing the "gov't has to care for people game" and we'll continue to fall off the map in debt.

i agree that's absolutely not a way to run a country, however i want people to realize the consequencies of their actions. if you're more concerned about our debt rating and our ability to borrow money cheaply than paying for all the services the government is currently responsible for, you'll see a pretty drastic response. it's not a threat or anything, it's just the reality of the situation.

this is the biggest disagreement i have with the tea party. they're running into a trap because since they represent a very narrow mindset of people, meaning most of it's members think very similarly to each other, the cuts that they'll support are really going to anger alot of other people. and they'll quickly wash away in the new anger that arises from austerity.

so when you talk about limiting the debt, (not raising the ceiling) you need to acknowledge who it is you're gonna pay off. the government will still be paying money out like crazy, there's no stopping that, so if you continue to pay off to the richest of people and cut off the poorest, you're cutting off the people with nothing to lose, and they'll bite back.
 
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during these times of lower spending sans riots did we have 25% underemployment? did we have 2 public wars and a dozen private wars? did we have double digit food price inflation? i agree that we do a good job keeping the rioting to a minimum around here, but people won't care too much that they have beer and football if their kids are starving.

We have had far more severe recessions in this country's history and even less public spending, and quite frankly no amount of social justice in the world is going to change the fact that we cannot afford to not cut spending. If you are going to keep sensationalizing, I do not see the point of continuing this.
 
We have had far more severe recessions in this country's history and even less public spending, and quite frankly no amount of social justice in the world is going to change the fact that we cannot afford to not cut spending. If you are going to keep sensationalizing, I do not see the point of continuing this.

am i talking to a wall here? you even a person or just programed to spit out lew rockwell talking points. i support cuts in spending, spending needs to be cut, cortar el gasto. i'm pointing out the fact that this legislation proposed by the conservative wing of the republicans stipulates that the richest people, including other countries, get paid first and in full then you can cut spending. and you doing this with a libertarian tag shows that you're bastardizing the ideology as much as william f buckley screwed up conservatism.
 
Where was all this Republican bitching about debt when Bush was President? Where was all the doom and gloom about bankruptcy then? Does everyone think all this debt suddenly materialized in 2009 when the markets went under?
I, for one, was right here.

Many of the other conservatives would think it would get this bad. Basically, You see how obama is betraying the liberals here with senseless paying off corporations and powergrabbing for the sake of grabbing power, it was the same thing with conservatives and bush. Because he had an R on his name, we thought he was conservative and that it would all work out in the end. When it become clear it wasn't, many jumped ship, especially the last 2 years.

Now can we stop going "Where were you when....", It's not making the debt get any smaller, you know.
 
I, for one, was right here.

Many of the other conservatives would think it would get this bad. Basically, You see how obama is betraying the liberals here with senseless paying off corporations and powergrabbing for the sake of grabbing power, it was the same thing with conservatives and bush. Because he had an R on his name, we thought he was conservative and that it would all work out in the end. When it become clear it wasn't, many jumped ship, especially the last 2 years.

Now can we stop going "Where were you when....", It's not making the debt get any smaller, you know.

I was raising hell about the debt back when I was in high school. I even gave a speech about it in one of my Social Studies classes. I watched it jump from 6 trillion to over 14 trillion. AND NOW REPUBLICANS HAVE THE BALLS TO BITCH ABOUT IT! Forgive me if I'm a little perturbed. This is why I hate both parties, but especially the Republicans because they are bald faced liars who claim they are for smaller, limited government when all they really want is to shove their religious beliefs down people's throats in order to keep the homos from marrying and the doctors from killing the unborn babies. And now that they helped the Democrats SCREW over this country, they PLAY THE PARTISAN BITCHING CARD! You want to make the debt smaller. STOP VOTING FOR REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS!
 
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I was raising hell about the debt back when I was in high school. I even gave a speech about it in one of my Social Studies classes. I watched it jump from 6 trillion to over 40 trillion. AND NOW REPUBLICANS HAVE THE BALLS TO BITCH ABOUT IT! Forgive me if I'm a little perturbed. This is why I hate both parties, but especially the Republicans because they are bald faced liars who claim they are for smaller, limited government when all they really want is to shove their religious beliefs down people's throats in order to keep the homos from marrying and the doctors from killing the unborn babies. And now that they helped the Democrats SCREW over this country, they PLAY THE PARTISAN BITCHING CARD! You want to make the debt smaller. STOP VOTING FOR REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS!

Holy ****, when was the debt 40 trillion?
 
Where was all this Republican bitching about debt when Bush was President? Where was all the doom and gloom about bankruptcy then? Does everyone think all this debt suddenly materialized in 2009 when the markets went under?

Where is the Libbo outrage now, since the debt has been tripled?
 
ok, back to topic, looking at you apdst. we have $1.5 Trillion in projected deficit this year, $300Billion till we hit the ceiling, are you really willing to cap the debt but stipulate that we pay off the bond holders in full while everything else gets cuts?
 
ok, back to topic, looking at you apdst. we have $1.5 Trillion in projected deficit this year, $300Billion till we hit the ceiling, are you really willing to cap the debt but stipulate that we pay off the bond holders in full while everything else gets cuts?


that's what happens when you over borrow.
 
Why does the G.O.P. hate Americans? They would rather **** over ordinary people to pay foreign creditors? What's the message to the American people? I think we all are hearing the message loud and clear.
 
I was raising hell about the debt back when I was in high school. I even gave a speech about it in one of my Social Studies classes. I watched it jump from 6 trillion to over 14 trillion. AND NOW REPUBLICANS HAVE THE BALLS TO BITCH ABOUT IT! Forgive me if I'm a little perturbed. This is why I hate both parties, but especially the Republicans because they are bald faced liars who claim they are for smaller, limited government when all they really want is to shove their religious beliefs down people's throats in order to keep the homos from marrying and the doctors from killing the unborn babies. And now that they helped the Democrats SCREW over this country, they PLAY THE PARTISAN BITCHING CARD! You want to make the debt smaller. STOP VOTING FOR REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS!
Stop getting so pissed. I was doing the same thing in college. Most republicans cared about the debt, but trusted their representitives too much and didn't hold their feet to the fire. you can say what you want about the politicians, but you don't know every republican out there and many out there that are in the tea party did raise questions about the debt over and over again but no one paid attention, and didn't start protesting because...well...when was the last time there was a real conservative protest?

But before you start bitching about republicans, it's the new republicans in congress now that are actually doing something about it, whether you agree with them or not on everything else. It is THEY that is holding other republicans feet to the fire of conservativism, while it is your democrat friends across the isle that is matching 10 years of revenue from higher taxes, with 6 years of hiked spending and calling it "cost-effective".Out of all liberals that talk about paying off the debt, you seem to be the only one that cares, while republicans continue to punish their own representives for not keeping Bush in line.
 
Stop getting so pissed. I was doing the same thing in college. Most republicans cared about the debt, but trusted their representitives too much and didn't hold their feet to the fire. you can say what you want about the politicians, but you don't know every republican out there and many out there that are in the tea party did raise questions about the debt over and over again but no one paid attention, and didn't start protesting because...well...when was the last time there was a real conservative protest?

But before you start bitching about republicans, it's the new republicans in congress now that are actually doing something about it, whether you agree with them or not on everything else. It is THEY that is holding other republicans feet to the fire of conservativism, while it is your democrat friends across the isle that is matching 10 years of revenue from higher taxes, with 6 years of hiked spending and calling it "cost-effective".Out of all liberals that talk about paying off the debt, you seem to be the only one that cares, while republicans continue to punish their own representives for not keeping Bush in line.

so first you start out by telling him not to get mad, the problem is us not holding the politicians' feet to the fire. which of course that's exactly what he was talking about, the only way we can hold politicians accountable (since we don't do the violent revolt thing in this country too often) is by voting for someone else. that's exactly what he was advocating in that post. then you went on to tell us why we should keep voting for republicans even though they have quite a history of not doing what their voters expect them to do. this is the twisted mental gymnastics you have to do in order to hold onto your 2 party narrative and still think we live in a democracy that holds it's elected officials accountable to the people.
 
so first you start out by telling him not to get mad, the problem is us not holding the politicians' feet to the fire. which of course that's exactly what he was talking about, the only way we can hold politicians accountable (since we don't do the violent revolt thing in this country too often) is by voting for someone else. that's exactly what he was advocating in that post. then you went on to tell us why we should keep voting for republicans even though they have quite a history of not doing what their voters expect them to do. this is the twisted mental gymnastics you have to do in order to hold onto your 2 party narrative and still think we live in a democracy that holds it's elected officials accountable to the people.
Oh I see, so democrats are better then. Im sorry...who cares about the 14 trillion debt again? If that "someone else" is someone who says "Nah, **** the debt, it doesn't exist, we need more ****!" Then untill a republican proposes we spend a dollar more than democrats are spending now, then hell no im not voting for someone else!

Point is, it doesn't matter. If events were linear, you would have a point, but that's not how it works in the real world. We have a duopoly in this country, and so the only way things will change, is if we work inside the system. So far, the only ones who care enough and are realistic enough to do that to settle the debt is the few republicans in congress and that dennis kucinich. sorry if I see no hope in the democrats, they haven't proven anything to me...Nay, went OUT OF THEIR WAY to prove that they are the complete opposite of what this country needs. Dr Paul, has proven and is time-tested and his republicans can actually be shamed into doing the right thing, as the bailout vote proved 2 years ago.
 
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