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Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

Aren't we all connected in todays global world? That's what you libs keep telling us.


Yes, that is why I rejoice with my brothers in Egypt in their stand against a dictator.
 
I'm not as concerned as some that Egypt will turn into a radical Islamic theocracy. The vast majority of the populace are quite secular, and wouldn't be okay with that. As we've seen, when the vast majority of Egyptians are not okay with something, they have ways of expressing themselves in person. :)

I'm am concerned about tomorrow. I want these people to have more freedom and a real democracy. The country has been under Martial Law for 30 years, and they've been absolutely terrorized by the police and the plain-clothed equivalent of our FBI. There's no way I can't hope that they achieve what they've fought so hard for the past 18 days. Over 300 dead. That's a pretty hefty sacrifice. Clearly these people are willing to die for their freedom. Tomorrow I hope it doesn't come to that.
 
Bring it up in a thread about Iraq and I will discuss that. In the meantime, you have anything on-topic to add to the discussion?

Are you for the freedom the Egyptians are demanding, or not?

Well you mentioned freedom and I agree with you that it is a wonderful thing, and the people of Iraq are enjoying their freedom right now. I hope it turns out as well for the Egyptians as it did for the Iraqis. Elections, a constitution, all of it.

And of course I am for freedom for the Egyptian people. Who wouldn't support freedom and democracy for everyone?? They'd have to be pretty sick not to, wouldn't they?
 
I don't get the feeling that catawba would see being on the same side as socialists a problem. Just sayin'.


Given the choice between democracy and dictatorship, I've got to go with democracy. I've never thought of democracy as a socialist concept.
 
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I'm not as concerned as some that Egypt will turn into a radical Islamic theocracy. The vast majority of the populace are quite secular, and wouldn't be okay with that. As we've seen, when the vast majority of Egyptians are not okay with something, they have ways of expressing themselves in person. :)

I'm am concerned about tomorrow. I want these people to have more freedom and a real democracy. The country has been under Martial Law for 30 years, and they've been absolutely terrorized by the police and the plain-clothed equivalent of our FBI. There's no way I can't hope that they achieve what they've fought so hard for the past 18 days. Over 300 dead. That's a pretty hefty sacrifice. Clearly these people are willing to die for their freedom. Tomorrow I hope it doesn't come to that.

I think history has clearly shown that when it comes to "revolution" the "vast majority" is irrelevent. It is a hard core minority that drives and wins revolutions. Haven't we always said the same thing about the "vast majority" in these situations? Look at the American Revolution, I have seen estimates that it was won with the support of 1/3 or less of the populace. No it is not the majority that runs or wins revolutions, it is a dedicated minority in most cases that is victorius in the end
 
I'm not as concerned as some that Egypt will turn into a radical Islamic theocracy. The vast majority of the populace are quite secular, and wouldn't be okay with that. As we've seen, when the vast majority of Egyptians are not okay with something, they have ways of expressing themselves in person. :)

I'm am concerned about tomorrow. I want these people to have more freedom and a real democracy. The country has been under Martial Law for 30 years, and they've been absolutely terrorized by the police and the plain-clothed equivalent of our FBI. There's no way I can't hope that they achieve what they've fought so hard for the past 18 days. Over 300 dead. That's a pretty hefty sacrifice. Clearly these people are willing to die for their freedom. Tomorrow I hope it doesn't come to that.

There has yet been a, "vast majority", of Egyptians express anything. We've only seen about 1% show up to any given protest.
 
There has yet been a, "vast majority", of Egyptians express anything. We've only seen about 1% show up to any given protest.

Poll: No constituency for Muslim Brotherhood takeover in Egypt

"This 
is
 not 
an 
Islamic 
uprising. 
The 
Muslim 
Brotherhood 
is 
"approved"
by
 just 
15%, 
and 
its 
leaders 
get
 barely 1%
 in
 a 
presidential 
straw
 vote.


Asked 
to
 pick
 national
 priorities, 
just
 12% 
choose 
shariah 
over
 national 
power, democracy,
or
 economic 
development. 
Asked
 to 
explain
 the 
uprising, 
economic
 conditions,
corruption,
and unemployment 
(30‐40% 
each) 
far
 outpace 
"regime
 not 
Islamic 
enough" 
(7%).

Surprisingly, 
asked 
two
 different 
ways
 about 
the
 peace 
treaty 
with 
Israel,
 more
 support
 it 
(37%)
 than
 oppose it 
(22%). 
Only 
18% 
approve
 of
 either 
Hamas 
or 
Iran. 
And 
a
 mere 
5% 
say 
the 
uprising
 occurred 
because
 the regime 
is 
"too
 pro-Israel."
 
Poll: No constituency for Muslim Brotherhood takeover in Egypt

"This 
is
 not 
an 
Islamic 
uprising. 
The 
Muslim 
Brotherhood 
is 
"approved"
by
 just 
15%, 
and 
its 
leaders 
get
 barely 1%
 in
 a 
presidential 
straw
 vote.


Asked 
to
 pick
 national
 priorities, 
just
 12% 
choose 
shariah 
over
 national 
power, democracy,
or
 economic 
development. 
Asked
 to 
explain
 the 
uprising, 
economic
 conditions,
corruption,
and unemployment 
(30‐40% 
each) 
far
 outpace 
"regime
 not 
Islamic 
enough" 
(7%).

Surprisingly, 
asked 
two
 different 
ways
 about 
the
 peace 
treaty 
with 
Israel,
 more
 support
 it 
(37%)
 than
 oppose it 
(22%). 
Only 
18% 
approve
 of
 either 
Hamas 
or 
Iran. 
And 
a
 mere 
5% 
say 
the 
uprising
 occurred 
because
 the regime 
is 
"too
 pro-Israel."

That's all fine and good, providing that we're going to see an actual democracy in Egypt.
 
That's all fine and good, providing that we're going to see an actual democracy in Egypt.

What Actual Democracy is to you, may not be an Actual Democracy to someone else...

There's more kinds of democracy then the "American, Freedom and Liberties, Jesus USA #1" kind of democracy you subscribe to.
 
What Actual Democracy is to you, may not be an Actual Democracy to someone else...

There's more kinds of democracy then the "American, Freedom and Liberties, Jesus USA #1" kind of democracy you subscribe to.

If there aren't free, fair and non-rigged elections, then there is no democracy.
 
If there aren't free, fair and non-rigged elections, then there is no democracy.

**** dude, it takes a hell of a lot more than free and fair elections to form a functioning democracy. But it would be a good start if no political parties are excluded from running for office, and that includes the Muslim Brotherhood.
 
If there aren't free, fair and non-rigged elections, then there is no democracy.

That is why there is a revolution now, because they don't have free, non-rigged elections.
 
**** dude, it takes a hell of a lot more than free and fair elections to form a functioning democracy.

You're preaching to the choir.



But it would be a good start if no political parties are excluded from running for office, and that includes the Muslim Brotherhood.

If the only thing the MB does is run for office, you're right. If the MB ends up running the whole show, then there won't be democracy.
 
If the only thing the MB does is run for office, you're right. If the MB ends up running the whole show, then there won't be democracy.

Read the article I posted. Fear of the MB is a poor excuse for not supporting the Egyptian awakening and helping them transition to a real democracy, if we can be allowed to play a role. The Danish PM has the right idea.

From my perspective, the way the Iranian protesters lost the ring in '79, is that the only ones who were armed were the Islamists. The murdered the **** out of the opposition. It is time for the 2nd Amendment to be exported and the secular youth should arm themselves to protect their freedom.
 
Read the article I posted. Fear of the MB is a poor excuse for not supporting the Egyptian awakening and helping them transition to a real democracy, if we can be allowed to play a role. The Danish PM has the right idea.

I don't not support the Egyptian awakening. All I've been saying, is that I'm not convinced that 1) it's an actual, "Egyptian awakening", or 2) that they're going to have something better if the awakening is real. The history of the region makes me pesimistic. Sorry.

From my perspective, the way the Iranian protesters lost the ring in '79, is that the only ones who were armed were the Islamists. The murdered the **** out of the opposition. It is time for the 2nd Amendment to be exported and the secular youth should arm themselves to protect their freedom.

I'm not convinced that that won't be the case this time. Only time will tell. Hey, I hope I'm wrong.

But, it's **** like this that doesn't boost my confidence,

The Egyptian military issued a communiqué pledging to carry out a variety of constitutional reforms in a statement notable for its commanding tone. The military’s statement alludes to the delegation of power to Vice President Omar Suleiman and it suggests that the military will supervise implementation of the reforms.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/12/world/middleeast/12egypt.html
 
Step 1 accomplished: Mubarak just stepped down.
 
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