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Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

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Over rumor by anonymous sources? Not at all.

Such a posture would not be incompatible with Saudi Arabia's interests. Saudi Arabia's monarchy wants to minimize the risk of such demonstrations in Saudi Arabia. If President Mubarak were swept from power prior to the end of his term and if the U.S. were seen as backing such a move, elements opposed to Saudi Arabia's monarchy might be emboldened, or at least that could be the fear of the Saudi royal family. It is unclear whether the Saudi royal family would have the appetite to brutally crush such a popular movement as happened in Iran. While such a movement could be crushed, as occurred in Iran where it has been renedered ineffectual perhaps for years to come, not every leader has the appetite or inclination to carry out the necessary oppression.

Finally, Saudi Arabia prefers stability and continuity. It already has grave concerns about external developments (Iran's rising power and Iran's role in facilitating the influence of proxies such as Hezbollah). It does not want to see Egypt-style popular movements that could create domestic challenges to the monarchy and its aging rulers.
 
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Such a posture would not be incompatible with Saudi Arabia's interests. Saudi Arabia's monarchy wants to minimize the risk of such demonstrations in Saudi Arabia. If President Mubarak were swept from power prior to the end of his term and if the U.S. were seen as backing such a move, elements opposed to Saudi Arabia's monarchy might be emboldened, or at least that could be the fear of the Saudi royal family. It is unclear whether the Saudi royal family would have the appetite to brutally crush such a popular movement as happened in Iran. While such a movement could be crushed, as occurred in Iran where it has been renedered ineffectual perhaps for years to come, not every leader has the appetite or inclination to carry out the necessary oppression.

Finally, Saudi Arabia prefers stability and continuity. It already has grave concerns about external developments (Iran's rising power and Iran's role in facilitating the influence of proxies such as Hezbollah). It does not want to see Egypt-style popular movements that could create domestic challenges to the monarchy and its aging rulers.

Yes, I think it is possible that such a call was placed, but we have no official confirmation that it did take place. Even, if a call from the Saudis was made, it doesn't necessarily follow that it affected the decisions of the administration. It just seems there is not enough here to go on for folks to get all worried.
 
Please quit this tired diversion technique. The subject was the Muslim Brotherhood, not "American Imperialism".

I thought we were talking about what scared us.
 
Yes, I think it is possible that such a call was placed, but we have no official confirmation that it did take place. Even, if a call from the Saudis was made, it doesn't necessarily follow that it affected the decisions of the administration. It just seems there is not enough here to go on for folks to get all worried.

Today, the story is widespread. I have confidence that the Saudi position is as described, given Saudi Arabia's interests. After all, if one recalls, during the low-grade civil war in Iraq, Saudi Arabia made abundantly clear that it would not accept a situation where Iraq's Sunnis were marginalized and that it was prepared to assist them. IMO, such a posture was actually helpful. It probably contributed to a broader U.S. perspective and might have reduced the likelihood of Iranian domination, though that risk still exists depending how things evolve in coming years.

IMO, it appears that the U.S. has not defined a coherent position on Egypt. Instead, the U.S. seems to be vacillating between patience and impatience. Unfortunately, such a lack of consistency has raised questions in Egypt's current government and those of some other Middle Eastern states as to U.S. reliability and it has led to at least some of the protesters suggesting that democracy would be achieved in spite of the U.S. A consistent approach in favor of a smooth transition to more democratic rule would probably be preferable. A low profile would probably also minimize risks to U.S. interests.

Although U.S. policy makers seem to believe otherwise, Egypt currently lacks the institutions, laws, and traditions to make an immediate leap to democracy. Even if free and fair elections were held today, Egypt would not be a democracy. A transition that is increasingly inclusive with respect to Egypt's political diversity would perhaps have the best chance at leading to a more democratic state, but institutions, laws, and a democratic tradition will need to be built. That will take time. The current Egyptian government can start the process. After September, a future Egyptian government or series of governments will need to complete that process over a number of years.
 
Here's a good rason for alot of Egyptians to worry.

Muslim Brotherhood: 'We are not seeking power' - CNN

From your link...

"We want to participate, not to dominate. We will not have a presidential candidate, we want to participate and help, we are not seeking power."

Why should Egyptians worry? They'll have members in Parlaiment I believe yes, and while I don't wanna take them at their word, they're not nearly as much of a threat as you want to believe they are.
 
From your link...

"We want to participate, not to dominate. We will not have a presidential candidate, we want to participate and help, we are not seeking power."

Why should Egyptians worry? They'll have members in Parlaiment I believe yes, and while I don't wanna take them at their word, they're not nearly as much of a threat as you want to believe they are.

Those sentiments reflect the Muslim Brotherhood's understanding that the environment in Egypt is not compatible with Islamist rule. The secular base in Egypt is too broad to be toppled immediately. Hence, if the Muslim Brotherhood wants a voice, it will have to find that voice within the context of a broader political framework. Domination, which would otherwise be its preferred course, is not an option at present. Egypt is not the Iran of 1979 where the base of secularism was visible but very superficial. That base is much more entrenched and enduring in Egypt.

Taking all that into consideration, the start of a post-Mubarak era (whether it begins after September or some time earlier matters little), will more than likely see pragmatism when it comes to key domestic and foreign policy issues in Egypt. Hence, I do not believe that the first post-Mubarak government would rescind the Egypt-Israel peace agreement, even as some pundits have all but written the demise of the agreement. The major challenges facing such a government would be to lay a path that leads to a more democratic political framework and also one that leads to more robust economic growth necessary to produce meaningful opportunities for Egypt's growing population, especially its younger people. Nonetheless, I suspect that U.S. policy vaccilation on recent Egyptian affairs will lead to a need to reinvigorate the U.S.-Egypt relationship afterward, as perceptions of U.S. reliability among all parties has been undermined to some extent by fluctuating policy statements.
 
Breaking: Supreme Council of Armed forces commit to uphold people's rights and needs.
Also Mubarak is not there in the room despite being Commander in Chief o_O
 
Those sentiments reflect the Muslim Brotherhood's understanding that the environment in Egypt is not compatible with Islamist rule. The secular base in Egypt is too broad to be toppled immediately. Hence, if the Muslim Brotherhood wants a voice, it will have to find that voice within the context of a broader political framework. Domination, which would otherwise be its preferred course, is not an option at present. Egypt is not the Iran of 1979 where the base of secularism was visible but very superficial. That base is much more entrenched and enduring in Egypt.

Taking all that into consideration, the start of a post-Mubarak era (whether it begins after September or some time earlier matters little), will more than likely see pragmatism when it comes to key domestic and foreign policy issues in Egypt. Hence, I do not believe that the first post-Mubarak government would rescind the Egypt-Israel peace agreement, even as some pundits have all but written the demise of the agreement. The major challenges facing such a government would be to lay a path that leads to a more democratic political framework and also one that leads to more robust economic growth necessary to produce meaningful opportunities for Egypt's growing population, especially its younger people. Nonetheless, I suspect that U.S. policy vaccilation on recent Egyptian affairs will lead to a need to reinvigorate the U.S.-Egypt relationship afterward, as perceptions of U.S. reliability among all parties has been undermined to some extent by fluctuating policy statements.

I think you're way too smart to buy into the MB saying, "oh no! We don't want to run the whole thing.", after 80 years of trying to run the whole thing.
 
I think you're way too smart to buy into the MB saying, "oh no! We don't want to run the whole thing.", after 80 years of trying to run the whole thing.

I don't believe their long-run aspirations have changed. I believe that right now the Muslim Brotherhood recognizes that it lacks the ability to take power. Hence, it will settle for participation. That participation, however, will seek to lay the groundwork over time for its long-term goals.
 
Re: "Beginning of the end" for Egypt's Mubarak, as son and wife flee

Yet, another quagmire for the good ol' USA. I'm certain we will make all the correct calls hereas we have so often since WWII. Hey Obama, bet you never bargained for this!!
 
I don't believe their long-run aspirations have changed. I believe that right now the Muslim Brotherhood recognizes that it lacks the ability to take power. Hence, it will settle for participation. That participation, however, will seek to lay the groundwork over time for its long-term goals.

I think their, "long-run asperations", could mean 6-12 months.
 
I don't believe their long-run aspirations have changed. I believe that right now the Muslim Brotherhood recognizes that it lacks the ability to take power. Hence, it will settle for participation. That participation, however, will seek to lay the groundwork over time for its long-term goals.

But participation with whom?

Who else has been preparing, or has the infrastructure prepared, to take Mubarak's place when he finally leaves?
 
But participation with whom?

Who else has been preparing, or has the infrastructure prepared, to take Mubarak's place when he finally leaves?

That's right. I'm not seeing the Egyptian version of the tea party getting any play.
 
What a great day for the world to see this non-violent protest bring about the end of a 30 year dictatorship by Mubarak!!!! The people of Egypt are dancing in the streets!!!
 
What a great day for the world to see this non-violent protest bring about the end of a 30 year dictatorship by Mubarak!!!! The people of Egypt are dancing in the streets!!!

They might not be dancing for long.

Suleiman: When Egypt's Transitional Figure Won't Transition - TIME

And, if they don't like that,

Update: I’m not sure what her source is, but Megyn Kelly’s reporting on Fox that the army plans to “act” against the protesters if they reject the handover of power to Suleiman as not good enough. That’s basically what I argued up above — that the regime’s handing them Mubarak’s scalp to appease them and end the demonstrations, but that the regime will otherwise crawl on roughly as is.

Chaos in Egypt: Mubarak about to step down? Update: Transferring power to military council? Update: Army will “act” if protesters reject Suleiman « Hot Air
 
What a great day for the world to see this non-violent protest bring about the end of a 30 year dictatorship by Mubarak!!!! The people of Egypt are dancing in the streets!!!


Yes, and we can all rest easier that now, on this very special day, everyone will live happily forever after. Peace in our time, at last!
 
But participation with whom?

Who else has been preparing, or has the infrastructure prepared, to take Mubarak's place when he finally leaves?

It's my understanding that the Muslim Brotherhood was referring to an elected post-Mubarak government. It likely won't play a role in the temporary transitional government, possibly headed by VP Suleiman.
 
It's my understanding that the Muslim Brotherhood was referring to an elected post-Mubarak government. It likely won't play a role in the temporary transitional government, possibly headed by VP Suleiman.

It is likely the Muslim Brotherhood will say whatever it takes to encourage people to relax, and that they only want whats best for the freedom and economic health for the people of Egypt.

The course of least resistance is what people will naturally follow and that's what they also want strongly to believe, The Muslim Brotherhood certainly knows that, just as many others who have wanted to gain power know and understand that. Do you really believe that if the Muslim Brotherhood said they wanted a Islamic State for Egypt and a Caliphate that people would support them? Or, for that matter, Barak Obama would ever have been elected? People just want peace, they want to relax, and thus it is easy for many, knowing this, to lie in oder to gain power.

The Muslim Brotherhood might be ruthless, but they are certainly not stupid. I don't believe any Islamic leaders are stupid. They have human nature pegged.
 
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Al Jazeera English: Live Stream - Watch Now - Al Jazeera English

Mubarak taking his sweet time in speaking. Originally scheduled app 40 mins ago.

a-j correspondents speculating the crowd may Not be satisfied with what they here.
That he may have just been lifting emergency law.
But delaying now as that would make the protesters even angrier.
 
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Yes, and we can all rest easier that now, on this very special day, everyone will live happily forever after. Peace in our time, at last!

Than you are not a fan of freedom being achieved through non-violent means? Whatever the path the Egyptians choose to take, it is inspiring to see people stand together for a non-violent revolution! :sun
 
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