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Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

"Ordinary people" do not detonate people in grocery stores, restaurants and bus stops. Only the most twisted of human beings can ever do that.

While you might believe that the Iraqi people are all demented religious fanatics with no hope whatsoever for their future, others certainly disagree.

You are viewing Iraqi's actions through the eyes of a very different culture. Iraq's culture has been one of violence through much of its existence. I don't believe "the Iraqi people are all demented religious fanatics with no hope whatsoever for their future." I believe that in the absence of the dictator Saddam, our military occupation is now required to keep the three main factions from a civil war. Since we cannot afford an indefinite military occupation of Iraq, together with the fact that we have signed an agreement to have all our troops out of Iraq by the end of the year, its logical to assume the civil war will continue until they agree on how to run their country.
 
another day, another position

The Obama administration has reconciled itself to gradual political reform in Egypt, an approach that reflects its goal of maintaining stability in the Middle East but is at odds with demands of the protest movement in Cairo that President Hosni Mubarak relinquish power immediately.

A week after the Obama administration demanded a swift transition to a post-Mubarak era, it has dampened the sense of urgency and aligned itself with power-brokers such as new Vice President Omar Suleiman, who are urging a more stable, if much slower, move to real democracy.

But U.S. officials privately acknowledged that there is no guarantee that Suleiman, a former intelligence chief closely aligned with the military, is committed to substantial reforms.

U.S. and Egypt: U.S. eases off call for swift Egypt reform - latimes.com

cfr's gelb, of course, was right---this addled admin of amateurs is all over the map

embarrassed yet?
 
You are ignoring that Germany was an actual threat to its neighbors. The Pentagon/CIA determined that Iraq was not a threat to its neighbors since 1992.

Germany wasn't a threat to it's neighbors until she invaded them.
 
Germany wasn't a threat to it's neighbors until she invaded them.

What is your point? Iraq hasn't had the capacity to invade anyone since 1991.
 
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You are viewing Iraqi's actions through the eyes of a very different culture. Iraq's culture has been one of violence through much of its existence. I don't believe "the Iraqi people are all demented religious fanatics with no hope whatsoever for their future." I believe that in the absence of the dictator Saddam, our military occupation is now required to keep the three main factions from a civil war. Since we cannot afford an indefinite military occupation of Iraq, together with the fact that we have signed an agreement to have all our troops out of Iraq by the end of the year, its logical to assume the civil war will continue until they agree on how to run their country.

So the troops should leave Iraq, we can let the slaughter begin, and then we'll deal with the winner?

That's a plan.
 
So the troops should leave Iraq, we can let the slaughter begin, and then we'll deal with the winner?

That's a plan.

You should of thought of that before you removed the one person keeping the civil war at bay and keeping Iran out of Iraq. The civil war is going to resume whenever we stop propping up the new corrupt regime with our military. How many more trillions do you think we can afford to spend in Iraq holding off the inevitable?
 
You should of thought of that before you removed the one person keeping the civil war at bay and keeping Iran out of Iraq. The civil war is going to resume whenever we stop propping up the new corrupt regime with our military. How many more trillions do you think we can afford to spend in Iraq holding off the inevitable?

So no matter what the Americans do, the Iraqi people are destined to attack and murder each other.

Just out of curiousity, Catawba, which is your favourite and most reliable source for what's going on in the world?
 
So no matter what the Americans do, the Iraqi people are destined to attack and murder each other.

We really won't know what the Iraqis will do until the foreign military occupation of their country has ended.

Just out of curiousity, Catawba, which is your favourite and most reliable source for what's going on in the world?

My eyes and ears, how about you?
 
We really won't know what the Iraqis will do until the foreign military occupation of their country has ended.

But you're willing to take the risk, despite your assuredness that they will immediately commence to killing each other.



My eyes and ears, how about you?

No favourite media then? Nothing you find to be the most reliable?
 
You should of thought of that before you removed the one person keeping the civil war at bay and keeping Iran out of Iraq. The civil war is going to resume whenever we stop propping up the new corrupt regime with our military. How many more trillions do you think we can afford to spend in Iraq holding off the inevitable?

So it's all about money then.

You didn't strike me as a running dog capitalist, but who can ever tell?
 
So it's all about money then.

You didn't strike me as a running dog capitalist, but who can ever tell?

He says after we've killed tens of thousands and displaced millions of innocent Iraqis all for our "strategic" (oil) interest.
 
He says after we've killed tens of thousands and displaced millions of innocent Iraqis all for our "strategic" (oil) interest.

We didn't kill tens of thousands, the insurgency did. Blame the right party.

We didn't displace millions of Iraqis, many of whom aren't so innocent - former Baathists. The majority of the displaced Iraqis are Sunnis. They chose to leave the country.

The strategic interest was to spread democracy in a region locked up by dictators, fomenting terrorism. We could have easily canceled the sanctions and helped to rebuild Iraq's oil industry, if it were about oil.
 
As Egypt’s popular uprising enters its third week, the Obama administration is contemplating the prospect that President Hosni Mubarak or his allies will continue to lead Egypt for the foreseeable future — and that the United States may be in the ironic position of needing to shore up relations with a world leader who’s been a close ally for decades.

The White House has sought to walk a tightrope, projecting general support for protesters without humiliating Mubarak, alienating Egypt’s powerful military leaders or unduly alarming other Arab autocrats. But the administration has slipped several times over the past two weeks, and the missteps have pretty uniformly betrayed a bias for Mubarak and the regional stability he brings. The most striking example came when diplomatic envoy Frank Wisner — sent to push Mubarak aside — declared several days later that he felt the Egyptian president should stay.

But the improvisational — critics say closer to schizophrenic — nature of U.S. diplomacy during the crisis leaves the administration in the unwelcome position of having to make amends with whichever side emerges from the Egyptian tumult as the governing power. The anti-Mubarak forces clearly will wonder whether the White House ever had their back — but Mubarak and those close to him also will question whether Washington was ready to throw him over the side.

U.S. alienates all sides in Egypt conflict - Ben Smith - POLITICO.com

are the journolisters spinning, or do you see what everyone else sees?

are you sure this white house knows what it's doing?
 
He says after we've killed tens of thousands and displaced millions of innocent Iraqis all for our "strategic" (oil) interest.

And what's happened to these Strategic oil interests? Who's making the money? Getting the free oil?

Do you think it was cheaper for the United States to invade Iraq and, as you say, spend tens of thousands (many millions actually) than just buy oil by the barrel?

What do you think the savings might have been and how much did the United States profit by the invasion?
 
You should of thought of that before you removed the one person keeping the civil war at bay and keeping Iran out of Iraq. The civil war is going to resume whenever we stop propping up the new corrupt regime with our military. How many more trillions do you think we can afford to spend in Iraq holding off the inevitable?

Exactly!!

I'm no Rhodes Scholar, but while Bush jr was trying to whip the UN into a WMD frenzy to allow an invasion of Iraq, I was screaming at the tv (and in many political forums) that a pre-emptive invasion of a country who did not threaten us was not only barbarous and illegal, it was the epitome of insanity. Saddam was an SOB, but he was the only thing keeping the country from erupting into a bloody civil war, one which would not end until only one faction was left standing. Only a fool wouldn't realize this would be the inevitable result and naturally, it has been.

We gave them democracy? Riiiight. Hell, it's been 7 years and last I heard Iraq's government had not met in one place for years, because the bickering sides couldn't agree on how to even open a parlimentary session. And thanks to us, there is now a fourth faction in Iraq... Al Qaeda. One thing about Saddam, he utterly dispised Al Qaeda and would never have tolerated their presence on Iraqi soil. But we managed to bring them running, and now Iraq is full of 'em.

Meanwhil, Iran eyes Iraq's Shi'a majority and rubs its hands, dreaming of a Greater Persia scenario.

Iraq's infrastructure is still in tatters, most of the country still doesn't even have electricity and piped water (which they had before we blew them all up), no matter which faction an Iraqi belongs to, the members of three other factions are trying to kill them, there are bombs in the street every other week blowing civilians straight to Allah...

Bah. Nothing good came out of this "war". We left nothing but ruins, bodies and dead soldiers.
 
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why did obama ESCALATE afghanistan?
 
Back on the Topic.
The demo seemed to be fading -accepting the September change- and Egypt seemed to be returning to normal but....

Egypt protesters seek to spread beyond Tahrir Square - CSMonitor.com
Dan Murphy, February 9, 2011

The largest demonstrations yet against President Hosni Mubarak swelled Cairo's Tahrir Square last night - after young Google executive Wael Ghonim revitalized Egypt's democracy movement with an emotional TV interview upon his release from secret detention.

That massive turnout was a slap to government efforts to reach out to Gradualist reform figures and simultaneously undermine the protests by painting the demonstrators as agents of foreign powers.

Now, organizers are aware that Tahrir Square, also known as Liberation Square, is becoming something of a democracy ghetto and are pushing to establish other beachheads around the city and across the country.

“There are discussions of liberating other squares,” says Alaa Abd El-Fattah, a blogger and democracy activist who returned home from exile after the protests broke out."..."
 
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And what's happened to these Strategic oil interests?


"Iraq's massive oil reserves, the third-largest in the world, are about to be thrown open for large-scale exploitation by Western oil companies under a controversial law which is expected to come before the Iraqi parliament within days.

The US government has been involved in drawing up the law, a draft of which has been seen by The Independent on Sunday. It would give big oil companies such as BP, Shell and Exxon 30-year contracts to extract Iraqi crude and allow the first large-scale operation of foreign oil interests in the country since the industry was nationalised in 1972."
Western Oil Companies a Step Away from Iraq's 'Prize' | World | AlterNet
 
U.S. alienates all sides in Egypt conflict - Ben Smith - POLITICO.com

are the journolisters spinning, or do you see what everyone else sees?

are you sure this white house knows what it's doing?

This is why we should have kept our mouths shut. Now the ruthless dictator we used to get along with is now going to be the ruthless dictator that bears a grudge against us.

Unless we want to "Saddam Hussein" this bastard, we might want to measure ourselves. Israel played this smartly. Our doofus, of course, did not.
 
Exactly!!

I'm no Rhodes Scholar, but while Bush jr was trying to whip the UN into a WMD frenzy to allow an invasion of Iraq, I was screaming at the tv (and in many political forums) that a pre-emptive invasion of a country who did not threaten us was not only barbarous and illegal, it was the epitome of insanity. Saddam was an SOB, but he was the only thing keeping the country from erupting into a bloody civil war, one which would not end until only one faction was left standing. Only a fool wouldn't realize this would be the inevitable result and naturally, it has been.

We gave them democracy? Riiiight. Hell, it's been 7 years and last I heard Iraq's government had not met in one place for years, because the bickering sides couldn't agree on how to even open a parlimentary session. And thanks to us, there is now a fourth faction in Iraq... Al Qaeda. One thing about Saddam, he utterly dispised Al Qaeda and would never have tolerated their presence on Iraqi soil. But we managed to bring them running, and now Iraq is full of 'em.

Meanwhil, Iran eyes Iraq's Shi'a majority and rubs its hands, dreaming of a Greater Persia scenario.

Iraq's infrastructure is still in tatters, most of the country still doesn't even have electricity and piped water (which they had before we blew them all up), no matter which faction an Iraqi belongs to, the members of three other factions are trying to kill them, there are bombs in the street every other week blowing civilians straight to Allah...

Bah. Nothing good came out of this "war". We left nothing but ruins, bodies and dead soldiers.

Seven whole years, eh? You think America put democracy into place in seven years?

It takes decades to put in place what we have, and there's still only about a 10 percent chance it will take root. (in that part of the world, probably 1 percent or less of a chance)
 
"Iraq's massive oil reserves, the third-largest in the world, are about to be thrown open for large-scale exploitation by Western oil companies under a controversial law which is expected to come before the Iraqi parliament within days.

The US government has been involved in drawing up the law, a draft of which has been seen by The Independent on Sunday. It would give big oil companies such as BP, Shell and Exxon 30-year contracts to extract Iraqi crude and allow the first large-scale operation of foreign oil interests in the country since the industry was nationalised in 1972."
Western Oil Companies a Step Away from Iraq's 'Prize' | World | AlterNet

WOW!!

That is great news for the Iraqi people and their economy!
 
WOW!!

That is great news for the Iraqi people and their economy!

This is the only chance they have. We're going to build them an economy while we protect them military during the process.

The United States is so evil.
 
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