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Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

Police driven out.
The military has been called in

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Now it is a question of whether the military sympathise with the protesters. Al Jazeera reports that the military are not fighting against the protesters and were infact greeted with cheers
 
Well, Saudis protesting for more social and political rights off and on also don't mention Iraq. Neither do Syrian political parties who speak on more social and political rights for their people. It's just a big coincidence that all of this has been ramped up across the region since the "purple finger." They will all focus on local grievances, but they all have televisions. Of course, before when Saddam Hussein's government was firmly in place and "contained" by the democratically free loving Western world, none of this was going on to this degree. You protestors have been losing your steam for years. Give it up. None of you had the vision or knowledge necessary to appreciate the bigger picture as you blasted away via sensational temporary headlines.

There are buncha anti-war heads that are fixing to explode...:rofl
 
:lamo

I suppose it must feel good to be in your deluded bubble where US gets no responsibility or blame for propping up dictators
You are right, History and reality must be wrong. US hasn't had a hand in the Middle East for decades :roll:



So...we are back to blaming America for the tyrants that were facilitated by Europeans and were there before we emerged from the worrld to do business with them? .....but denying America's role in removing one and trying to fix what your people screwed up decades and centures ago? You protestors/pundits can't figure out your own grievances. Centuries of European meddling and destruction doesn't go away because you can place an American boot after the fact in the last few decades. We dealt with what you all provided. In the end, we are the one's facing the problem and dragging you all along in your age old obligations.
 
So...we are back to blaming America for the tyrants that were facilitated by Europeans and were there before we emerged from the worrld to do business with them? .....but denying America's role in removing one and trying to fix what your people screwed up decades and centures ago? You protestors/pundits can't figure out your own grievances. Centuries of European meddling and destruction doesn't go away because you can place an American boot after the fact in the last few decades. We dealt with what you all provided. In the end, we are the one's facing the problem and dragging you all along in your age old obligations.

I don't blame US in its entirety. Europe had a big role as well. :shrug:

But it's not Europe with the hand of power now in many of those countries. But it's not for me anyway. The Egyptians will be the judge and jury for how they view the United States and the West.
 
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If they provide aid, comfort and sactuary to AQ, then they are the enemy, as well.

so the money, and training that the US government has given them makes us an enemy too?
 
Now it is a question of whether the military sympathise with the protesters. Al Jazeera reports that the military are not fighting against the protesters and were infact greeted with cheers

It hinges on the military. Are they better than a third world military and loyal to their civilian leaders or are they just a second rate military that will coup at the drop of a dime? Of course, the last time the Egyptian military removed the power they merely "elected" Nasr, which started the current "pharaoh" monarchy. My guess is that the protestors will lose steam for one reason or another eventually. But this will facilitate political power towards the people and against the current authority.
 
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I don't blame US in its entirety. Europe had a big role as well. :shrug:

But it's not Europe with the hand of power now in many of those countries. But it's not for me anyway. The Egyptians will be the judge and jury for how they view the United States and the West.

Yet, all we've heard from you is how the United States is at fault.

You gotta source proving all thos tear gas canisters are American made, or are you speaking from an orafice not to be named? Prolly not. Yes?

No, I think instead, all we're seeing is anti-American bigotry, rather an honest and objective point of view on the current events.
 
It hinges on the military. Of course, the last time the Egyptian military removed the power they merely "elected" Nasr, which started the current "pharaoh" monarchy. My guess is that the protestors will lose steam for one reason or another eventually. But this will facilitate political power towards the people and against the current authority.

I don't believe the Military will stand against the people. They aren't doing anything from what we can see on Al Jazeera to disperse the crowd.

That is one guess.
The other is that it picks up steam, like it did in Tunisia. The second the President of Tunisia started discussing reform, the people pushed for more because they sensed weakness.

And even more crucially, the Army has not come out in support of Mubarak or the Generals
 
It hinges on the military. Of course, the last time the Egyptian military removed the power they merely "elected" Nasr, which started the current "pharaoh" monarchy. My guess is that the protestors will lose steam for one reason or another eventually. But this will facilitate political power towards the people and against the current authority.

Actually, the last time the military removed the power, Mubarack became prez.
 
Yet, all we've heard from you is how the United States is at fault.

You do a very good job on pointing out Europe's flaws. Maybe that is why :roll:
 
I don't blame US in its entirety. Europe had a big role as well. :shrug:

But it's not Europe with the hand of power now in many of those countries. But it's not for me anyway. The Egyptians will be the judge and jury for how they view the United States and the West.

It doesn't matter either way. They have come to respect the idea that they are ultimately to blame for their own culture (Muslims slaughtering Muslims on international television tends to look poorly on their ideas of who the enemy is). America gets to be damned for doing business with the tyrant and for taking the tyrant out. After all this time, I believe everyone on the globe can see this. Egyptians know that ultimately we will do business with what ever stability their culture produces. If they manage to overthrow and create stability through democracy, then they know that we will be there just out of sheer basic tenet and belief. But business is business.
 
I don't believe the Military will stand against the people. They aren't doing anything from what we can see on Al Jazeera to disperse the crowd.

That is one guess.
The other is that it picks up steam, like it did in Tunisia. The second the President of Tunisia started discussing reform, the people pushed for more because they sensed weakness.

And even more crucially, the Army has not come out in support of Mubarak or the Generals

I imagine the generals are playing their cards close to their vest, to see where their best interests lie. Afterall, they still want to have a job when the dust settles.
 
Actually, the last time the military removed the power, Mubarack became prez.

Oh I didn't mean Nasr (Vali Nasr was my thinking). I mean Nasser. From him it went to Sadat. From Sadat it went to Mubarack (via Taleb). Along the way, the military has been the key legitimator. See I know things.
 
Anybody else notice how all these Arab leaders who opposed the invasion of Iraq eventually began feeling tremendous pressure from their own people? No? Just that coincidence thing I guess.
 
Anybody else notice how all these Arab leaders who opposed the invasion of Iraq eventually began feeling tremendous pressure from their own people? No? Just that coincidence thing I guess.

Yes, definitely coincidence. There's no way that the United States could ever have a positive effect on anything on the world scene.
 
Well, Saudis protesting for more social and political rights off and on also don't mention Iraq. Neither do Syrian political parties who speak on more social and political rights for their people. It's just a big coincidence that all of this has been ramped up across the region since the "purple finger." They will all focus on local grievances, but they all have televisions. Of course, before when Saddam Hussein's government was firmly in place and "contained" by the democratically free loving Western world, none of this was going on to this degree. You protestors have been losing your steam for years. Give it up. None of you had the vision or knowledge necessary to appreciate the bigger picture as you blasted away via sensational temporary headlines.

You mean there was no revolts before the invasion of Iraq? You sure about that?

Do you actually have proof that these revolts are inspired by Iraq? Are you clinging on to a desperate validation of a long failed policy? If you have ever checked the news about Iraq, it is not a country people should aspire too.

Like I said people are chanting Tunisia and waving Tunisian flags in the streets of Egypt, Yemen and others, not Iraq. That is a fact. I would be more convinced by your argument if all this happened half a decade earlier.

Sorry old boy.
 
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Anybody else notice how all these Arab leaders who opposed the invasion of Iraq eventually began feeling tremendous pressure from their own people? No? Just that coincidence thing I guess.

Except Egypt didn't oppose the war in Iraq. And Turkey did. Iran didn't mind because you were taking out their enemy. Saudi Arabia didn't say a word about Iraq and let US use their bases and they are in revolt.

Please logic man, it is useful.
 
Yes, definitely coincidence. There's no way that the United States could ever have a positive effect on anything on the world scene.


There are those who will look for anything that happens in the world as the fault of the US, although you can't help that, everyone after No 1 and all, but it is disconcerting that some of those are American's. If the US is so damned horrible, then maybe they should go to where their own existence is in a "more just" society.

j-mac
 
There are those who will look for anything that happens in the world as the fault of the US, although you can't help that, everyone after No 1 and all, but it is disconcerting that some of those are American's. If the US is so damned horrible, then maybe they should go to where their own existence is in a "more just" society.

those anti-american people are surely around, but you cannot use that as an excuse to ignore our actions, and the results thereof. it seems you have a hard time seeing people criticize america in defense of american values. if we see actions america is taking in the world that aren't aiding liberty, but are imposing our will on other sovereign nations, it would be in fact very anti-american to not point it out. to hide your american values for the benefit of cheap resources and labor is the same thing that validated slavery 2 centuries ago. don't think that people are anti-american because they criticize our actions, unless you're willing to go so far as to say all actions by our government are made correctly.
 
There are those who will look for anything that happens in the world as the fault of the US, although you can't help that, everyone after No 1 and all, but it is disconcerting that some of those are American's. If the US is so damned horrible, then maybe they should go to where their own existence is in a "more just" society.

j-mac

I think all those anti-American bigots should go crying to the Russians, or the Chicoms for help, in the future. See how far that gets them.
 
Anytime an Islamist party, that supports anti-American terrorism, takes control of a government, the US should be concerned.

We have Iran, Syria supporting terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are in Gaza and Lebanon. Now, it appears that the Muslim Brotherhood and there's no telling who those clowns are, that are starting trouble in Jordon.

Yeah, this should be of very high concern.

America supports pro-American terrorism so thats okay (like the Taliban during the soviet invasion of Afghanistan). :roll:

MY concern of the Islamic brotherhood is ideological and not because they supposedly do what America has been doing for years (yeah thats right, funding terrorism).
Unless they are moderate and working within a secular democratic and independent constitutional and judiciary framework like in Turkey, they will - without a doubt - just be oppressive liberators of a former oppressor.

Basically Egypt needs more than just a new head of state. They need the entire state structure re-written from top to bottom. I genuinely believe we will not see much change in Egypt or Tunisia unless this happens.

And i also believe the Presidential system is very unsuited for Arab countries.

The panacea for Arab democracies right now is the devolution of powers from one person or institution to numerous persons and institutions, and a Parliamentary system can be of assistance in achieving this "state of democracy".
 
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