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Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

MSgt said:
Ha. I love it. By all means, lets pretend that an Iraqi population voting on their laws and governance in the central of Arab HQ has nothing to do with populations elsewhere in the region finding their unified voice for something better than oppression. Maybe along the way a religioius region that has the opportunity to express its grievances healthily will be slower to turn towards extremism and blame. Throw in the exponential rumblings in Saudi Arabia, Syria, Lebanon and Jordan and it's always been about our long term security dip****s.
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Stop trying to justify the illegality of Iraq by using other countries rising up as a shield.

Tunisia was more of a spark than Iraq. Contrary to many Americans belief, not everything revolves around the US :roll:

OT: I hope the Egyptian people continue and I hope my friends are safe. Lynch your President! :peace
 
FLASH: CNN: Obama to speak in Next 5 Minutes on Egypt.
 
Kandahar said:
So you're saying that Tunisians, located 2000 miles away from Baghdad, looked at Iraq and decided that THAT was what they wanted to emulate? :roll:
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Um...yes western thinker. And before you shut down and behave simply, pay attention.

You are welcome to read a book or two on the subject. They have all been unified under a religion for over a thousand years and all have surrendered to a certain Arab theme of governance and prescription. Of course, we could all pretend that history is absolutely wrong and that these unnatural borders actually mean something to the local people. Or we could choose to open our eyes and witness the region's behaviors since the most significant event in their recent history occurred. For you, Iraq was just a local war. For them, it was a civilizational awakening. But maybe all these social stresses and pressures under these oppressive governments throughout the region since 2003 have been about nothing at all.

Iraq is not exactly what they are showing to want to emulate. Speaking out and demanding something better is. The better Iraq gets the more the regions populations want for themselves. "If they can do it, then we can do it." And this is why Arab governments were and are so quick to want to see Iraq fail. Iraq's success is a threat to every single oppressive Arab (and Muslim) government throughout the region. All dictators, pharaohs, and religious regimes were put on notice in 2003. It was up to Iraqis to lead the region and the region has been responding.
 
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:lol:
 
Laila said:
Stop trying to justify the illegality of Iraq by using other countries rising up as a shield.
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Sure....the entire Middle East is screaming out not because of the most significant change in their history, but because they coincidentally all decided at once to have had enough. You people are so lost in your denials and protests. This region will swing towards the favorable despite your denials. And the more this region moves, the more venomous people like you will get towards the "illegality" of the Iraq War because it means that you were wrong in your near sightedness the whole time. Move on. The bumper sticker protests doesn't work anymore.

It's always been tragically fascinating how people like you could easily point out every negative aspect of this effort and deny all positive intended and unintended consequences of it. It's not me that's desperately clinging to 2003 rhetoric.
 
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mbig said:
FLASH: CNN: Obama to speak in Next 5 Minutes on Egypt.
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Got it on and waiting. Let's see what President Obama has to say. I know what I'd say.

Uh oh...sounds to me that they want exactly what their Iraqi neighbors have been doing. Before the "Iraqi vote" this would not have occurred. And do we really think that women driving in Saudi Arabia would have occurred? Or the exponentially democracy focused growing political parties in Syria? Or the Lebanese government's protests against Hezbollah? And so on? Wake up already.
 
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Laila said:
He'll chicken out.
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He didn't chicken out and Repeatedly backed the rights of the people to demonstrate peacefully.
and recalled his Cairo speech that a govt should rule by Consent Not Coercion.

Disappointing was his call for "Dialogue" between the [Coercive] govt and people.

Tricky position he's in. He's Prez.
If Mubarrak maintains power- having called for his overthrow.....
 
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Well I think it was pathetic but it should be no less than expected tbh.

Even if Mubarak stays, this is just delaying the inevitable. I don't think those in ME will forget the difference of reaction to the Iran/Egypt protest and I don't know if you were watching Al Jazeera. But the people must be pissed off considering many of teh tear gas and weapons used against them were made in US ... /facepalm
 
MSgt said:
Um...yes western thinker. And before you shut down and behave simply, pay attention.

You are welcome to read a book or two on the subject. They have all been unified under a religion for over a thousand years and all have surrendered to a certain Arab theme of governance and prescription. Of course, we could all pretend that history is absolutely wrong and that these unnatural borders actually mean something to the local people. Or we could choose to open our eyes and witness the region's behaviors since the most significant event in their recent history occurred. For you, Iraq was just a local war. For them, it was a civilizational awakening. But maybe all these social stresses and pressures under these oppressive governments throughout the region since 2003 have been about nothing at all.

Iraq is not exactly what they are showing to want to emulate. Speaking out and demanding something better is. The better Iraq gets the more the regions populations want for themselves. "If they can do it, then we can do it." And this is why Arab governments were and are so quick to want to see Iraq fail. Iraq's success is a threat to every single oppressive Arab (and Muslim) government throughout the region. All dictators, pharaohs, and religious regimes were put on notice in 2003. It was up to Iraqis to lead the region and the region has been responding.
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I have read a few books. I can say that it was not Iraq; but Afghanistan you are talking about. Many Arabs saw the invasion of Afghanistan and decided that they had enough of poverty and tyranny. So now they are rioting and voicing their opinions. So you are wrong about Iraq, how you like them apples??
 
mbig said:
He didn't chicken out and Repeatedly backed the rights of the people to demonstrate peacefully.
and recalled his Cairo speech that a govt should rule by Consent Not Coercion.

Disappointing was his call for "Dialogue" between the [Coercive] govt and people.

Tricky position he's in. He's Prez.
If Mubarrak maintains power- having called for his overthrow.....
Click to expand...


He kinda chickened out. He erred on the side of caution. Egypt is an ally, but we also have to encourage social change. He did little but to encourage civility, which tells the people that we care more about negative stability than positive disruption. Every single modernist in the region needs to know that we are on their side. I hope there is more to this. Bush denied Egypt their annual allowance in (2004?) until they released a liberal writer (who ironically blasts America too) for a proper trial under their own laws.
 
Gray_Fox_86 said:
I have read a few books. I can say that it was not Iraq; but Afghanistan you are talking about. Many Arabs saw the invasion of Afghanistan and decided that they had enough of poverty and tyranny. So now they are rioting and voicing their opinions. So you are wrong about Iraq, how you like them apples??
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Well, for one you are lying because Afghanistan has little to do with the core Arab world and poverty is exactly the Afghanistan experience for the last century. Two, I mean more than Dr. Seuss when I write of books. And three, aren't you still in time out over your obsession to attack the military repeatedly from thread to thread?

C'mon. At least try to pretend to be able to keep up with the discussion.
 
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MSgt said:
Well, for one you are lying because Afghanistan has little to do with the core Arab world. Two, I mean more than Dr. Seuss. And three, aren't you still in time out over your obsession to attack the military repeatedly from thread to thread?
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For one, I am no bigger liar than President Bush or President Obama, etc. Two, Dr. Seuss rules, you suck. And three, I do not attack the military. I attack the hicks that represent a large portion of the military. Maybe you are one. I don't know or care. I also attack the way many college graduates behave. Basically I attack everyone. I have no alligance to fools. Does that make me a bigger fool? Maybe.
 
I guess the Arab world was just biding its time since they became inspired by Iraq becoming a democracy before it revolted...for 6 years . Clearly. It can't be any other reason. None at all. Its kind of confusing how the rioters mention Tunisia....but they never mention Iraq though.

I wish the Egyptian people the liberal democracy and freedom they want.
 
GarzaUK said:
I guess the Arab world was just biding its time since they became inspired by Iraq becoming a democracy before it revolted...for 6 years . Clearly. It can't be any other reason. None at all. Its kind of confusing how the rioters mention Tunisia....but they never mention Iraq though.

I wish the Egyptian people the liberal democracy and freedom they want.
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If that is what they want.
 
mbig said:
He didn't chicken out and Repeatedly backed the rights of the people to demonstrate peacefully.
and recalled his Cairo speech that a govt should rule by Consent Not Coercion.

Disappointing was his call for "Dialogue" between the [Coercive] govt and people.

Tricky position he's in. He's Prez.
If Mubarrak maintains power- having called for his overthrow.....
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Just as bad: having supported a takeover by a known terrorist group.

Personally, I think Obama should say as little as possible, so he doesn't get saddled with the fallout.
 
Laila said:
Well I think it was pathetic but it should be no less than expected tbh.

Even if Mubarak stays, this is just delaying the inevitable. I don't think those in ME will forget the difference of reaction to the Iran/Egypt protest and I don't know if you were watching Al Jazeera. But the people must be pissed off considering many of teh tear gas and weapons used against them were made in US ... /facepalm
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Ok, now we're blaming the gun for the cime vice the criminal.

That makes alotta sense. But, hey! Anything to place the blame on the United States.
 
Gray_Fox_86 said:
For one, I am no bigger liar than President Bush or President Obama, etc.
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Congratulations on your choice of category for yourself. They lie because they are politicians they seek your sheepish/political loyalty. You lie...because why? With all the material freely offerred to you to read, why would you decide to barracade yourself behind politicial rhetorics, slogans, and half truths? Let me guess, since there was no WMD, Iraq was about doing something for the hell of it with absolutely no thought into any future hopeful consequences? You have witnessed the consequences throughout the region over the last few years. Pretending that these people have no social and civilizational tie just to cling to a notion that borders matter in this region is irrational. These tribes transcend borders and they have shared communities long before the advent of these oppressive governments.
 
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apdst said:
That's killing the enemy, not terrorism. They brought it upon themselves.
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how are thousands of impoverished women and children your enemy? if they are, you're a weak mother ****er.
 
MSgt said:
He kinda chickened out. He erred on the side of caution. Egypt is an ally, but we also have to encourage social change. He did little but to encourage civility, which tells the people that we care more about negative stability than positive disruption. Every single modernist in the region needs to know that we are on their side. I hope there is more to this. Bush denied Egypt their annual allowance in (2004?) until they released a liberal writer (who ironically blasts America too) for a proper trial under their own laws.
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He almost has to wait to see how it plays out.
He's given his 'protection' to the Demonstrations, and called for all communications to be reopened.

I strongly suspect this President is 'with' the protesters, at least personally.
Strategically this is about is touchy as it gets.
Alliances, Arms, etc, very big potential problems.

IF the demonstrations expand over the weekend and show to be overwhelming will of the people, and IF the Egyptian Army is too heavy-handed, I think you'll see him make another statement Sunday Night, or so, that is less ambiguous.

Right now his call for "Dialogue" with the govt, I have to say IS somewhat 'chickening out'.
There really is none with Mubarrak; that's the whole point of the Protest.

He is supposed to appoint a new cabinet tomorrow.
I can't foresee that will help.

Commentators on CNN are saying it all swings on the Military; which apparently is still/so far acting at Mubarrak's orders.
Protesters, however, are also appealing to the Military, who they like/respect more than the Riot Police.
Let's see what the weekend brings.
 
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apdst said:
That makes alotta sense. But, hey! Anything to place the blame on the United States.
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:lamo

I suppose it must feel good to be in your deluded bubble where US gets no responsibility or blame for propping up dictators
You are right, History and reality must be wrong. US hasn't had a hand in the Middle East for decades :roll:
 
Zyroh said:
how are thousands of impoverished women and children your enemy? if they are, you're a weak mother ****er.
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If they provide aid, comfort and sactuary to AQ, then they are the enemy, as well.
 
Laila said:
:lamo

I suppose it must feel good to be in your deluded bubble where US gets no responsibility or blame for propping up dictators
You are right, History and reality must be wrong. US hasn't had a hand in the Middle East for decades :roll:
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Your revised version of history and reality are two different things.

The United States is no more responsible for Mubarack retaining power than Sarah Palin is for the Safeway shooting. To claim so is the pinnacle of stupidity, or denial of reality, take you pick. I think it has more to do with a natural hatred for Americans, than anything else.
 
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GarzaUK said:
I guess the Arab world was just biding its time since they became inspired by Iraq becoming a democracy before it revolted...for 6 years . Clearly. It can't be any other reason. None at all. Its kind of confusing how the rioters mention Tunisia....but they never mention Iraq though.

I wish the Egyptian people the liberal democracy and freedom they want.
Click to expand...

Well, Saudis protesting for more social and political rights off and on also don't mention Iraq. Neither do Syrian political parties who speak on more social and political rights for their people. It's just a big coincidence that all of this has been ramped up across the region since the "purple finger." They will all focus on local grievances, but they all have televisions. Of course, before when Saddam Hussein's government was firmly in place and "contained" by the democratically free loving Western world, none of this was going on to this degree. You protestors have been losing your steam for years. Give it up. None of you had the vision or knowledge necessary to appreciate the bigger picture as you blasted away via sensational temporary headlines.
 
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