• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

Andalublue said:
Yes, it would appear so...gulfnews : Mubarak
Click to expand...
I posted a [CBS] refutation of that story earlier.
And that is the Same story and only source - the US based Arabic website Akhbar Al Arab.

I haven't seen any confirmed/other sourced reports of anyone having fled .. yet.
 
Last edited:
mbig said:
I posted a [CBS] refutation of that story earlier.
And that is the Same story and only source - the US based Arabic website Akhbar Al Arab.

I haven't seen any confirmed/other sourced reports of anyone having fled .. yet.
Click to expand...

Okay, let's wait and see then. I do hope it turns out not to be the case.
 
Re: "Beginning of the end" for Egypt's Mubarak, as son and wife flee

Andalublue said:
Sensible advice, I reckon this indicates the opposite of cutting him loose, wouldn't you? If they were going to do that they'd just wash their hands of him and let him carry on digging his own political grave.
Click to expand...

Nah. Repression and censorship are generally pretty effective tools for propping up a dictatorship.
 
Re: "Beginning of the end" for Egypt's Mubarak, as son and wife flee

If the government is overthrown, how long do ya'll think it will be, before the Muslim Brotherhood takes the reins?
 
Re: "Beginning of the end" for Egypt's Mubarak, as son and wife flee

Andalublue said:
Yes, but only in that sense. It does not mean that the result of any successful regime change brought about by this 'popular' uprising would herald an improvement in human rights standards
.
Click to expand...

For half of the population, I'm sure it would represent another step backwards in a process that has been occuring for decades.
 
Re: "Beginning of the end" for Egypt's Mubarak, as son and wife flee

Police are shooting protestors in Suez Canal. Protesters set fire to some Government buildings. Army is on standby. Not yet confirmed by mainstream media. :shock:
 
Re: "Beginning of the end" for Egypt's Mubarak, as son and wife flee

Gardener said:
For half of the population, I'm sure it would represent another step backwards in a process that has been occuring for decades.
Click to expand...

I think you're right. The only possible improvements might occur if the Mubarak regime can be forced to accept a process of radical change and democratisation allied with more egalitarian economic policies. The ludicrous wealth gap, caused by corruption and unfettered clientilist 'liberal' capitalism is, to my mind, the key driver of this social unrest, both in Egypt and Tunisia and indeed, across the ME.
 
Re: "Beginning of the end" for Egypt's Mubarak, as son and wife flee

Laila said:
Police are shooting protestors in Suez Canal. Protesters set fire to some Government buildings. Army is on standby. Not yet confirmed by mainstream media. :shock:
Click to expand...
CNN (USA) reporting same in Suez and had some pix.
It was the main story at the outset of the evening/5PM EST news.

Int'l attention could feed the protest's strength.
 
Last edited:
The West is very quickly losing its allies in the Middle East, one after the other. Not that I support the Western policy regarding the Middle East, but being aware of the rise of radical Islam in that part of the world since the 80s, I've never been as pessimistic as I am now.

A war that is going to spread very quickly is becoming inevitable.

I sincerely hope that I'm dead wrong.
 
Mira said:
The West is very quickly losing its allies in the Middle East, one after the other. Not that I support the Western policy regarding the Middle East, but being aware of the rise of radical Islam in that part of the world since the 80s, I've never been as pessimistic as I am now.

A war that is going to spread very quickly is becoming inevitable.

I sincerely hope that I'm dead wrong.
Click to expand...

Well, while the West continues to back-up some (not all) of the most repressive regimes in the region, it will hardly be surprising when eventually things come back to bite them. Supporting Egypt and Saudi while attacking Iran which, while unpleasant is 100% more democratic than either of the other two, is just storing up problems for the future... a future that today doesn't appear to be too distant. Had the ascendancy of the neo-cons resulted in them applying their democratic export more consistently and ethically, this may have been turned around. The current Obama regime doesn't even appear to have a policy in regard to the ME democratic deficit.

I reckon I'm as pessimistic as you.
 
Andalublue said:
Well, while the West continues to back-up some (not all) of the most repressive regimes in the region, it will hardly be surprising when eventually things come back to bite them. Supporting Egypt and Saudi while attacking Iran which, while unpleasant is 100% more democratic than either of the other two, is just storing up problems for the future... a future that today doesn't appear to be too distant. Had the ascendancy of the neo-cons resulted in them applying their democratic export more consistently and ethically, this may have been turned around. The current Obama regime doesn't even appear to have a policy in regard to the ME democratic deficit.

I reckon I'm as pessimistic as you.
Click to expand...


Agreed. Regarding Iran there is of course an episode that has been eliminated which is that it was the Shah who had started the nuclear program and it was Khomeini who had interrupted it. He only activated the program again when Iran was being attacked by "weapons of mass distruction" (supplied by the West) by Iraq which was still a Western ally at the time.

Of course the West wants democracy in the Middle East as long as those elected are the people that the West likes and chooses. The Arab leaders have been so disgustingly corrupt that for decades they played the game in order to satisfy their personal "folie des grandeurs". And this is where we are now. Thanks you the West and thanks to the Arab leaders.

edit: Obama is a powerless joke. Lots of hope was put into Obama regarding the Middle East, but the American policy toward that part of the world is so well grounded that there's hardly anything that Obama could have done without losing his own head.
 
Last edited:
Images/Videos from the protests

610x.jpg


163225_160874893962383_104224996294040_299050_3194553_n.jpg


610x.jpg


1.jpg


Tahrir+square.JPG
 
2.jpg


Tear-gas-fired-by-Egyptia-003.jpg




Quoting from the gentleman in the video .. "We will not be silent. if you are a Christian, a Muslim or an atheist. You will demand your god damn rights! And we will have our rights, one way or the other!" :applaud
 
CNN's Egypt Page. Numerous Vidoes and pix.
Police crack down on protesters in Egypt - CNN.com

Among them an interview with well know M. elBaradei, an opposition leader; possible future President.
"Egypt is NOT Stable"
"29 years of Martial law"
"rigged elections"
 
Last edited:
Andalublue said:
Well, while the West continues to back-up some (not all) of the most repressive regimes in the region, it will hardly be surprising when eventually things come back to bite them. Supporting Egypt and Saudi while attacking Iran which, while unpleasant is 100% more democratic than either of the other two, is just storing up problems for the future... a future that today doesn't appear to be too distant. Had the ascendancy of the neo-cons resulted in them applying their democratic export more consistently and ethically, this may have been turned around. The current Obama regime doesn't even appear to have a policy in regard to the ME democratic deficit.

I reckon I'm as pessimistic as you.
Click to expand...

Um_ Didn't that already happen? Also look up the Mujahidden which turned into be the Taliban ineffectual something we did in the middle east did in fact bit us in the butt by killing 3,000 of our civilians and more of our people in the military.
 
Last edited:
Re: "Beginning of the end" for Egypt's Mubarak, as son and wife flee

Andalublue said:
I think you're right. The only possible improvements might occur if the Mubarak regime can be forced to accept a process of radical change and democratisation allied with more egalitarian economic policies. The ludicrous wealth gap, caused by corruption and unfettered clientilist 'liberal' capitalism is, to my mind, the key driver of this social unrest, both in Egypt and Tunisia and indeed, across the ME.
Click to expand...

wierd, thought you were describing the US for a minute there.
 
ludahai said:
Agree this is far more likely to result in an Islamist regime than Tunisia... though, there is a significant Chrisitian minority and there is an educated class that would resist Islamism...l
Click to expand...

I disagree. The protests in Egypt are being carried on by workers, and the issues are much different than in, say, Iran. The protests in Egypt are much more secular than they are religious. I say we should encourage the protests there. I think we have a chance to end up with an Egypt that shares a few of the same values we do.
 
RyrineaHaruno said:
Um_ Didn't that already happen? Also look up the Mujahidden which turned into be the Taliban ineffectual something we did in the middle east did in fact bit us in the butt by killing 3,000 of our civilians and more of our people in the military.
Click to expand...

The mujas that the US trained and funded didn't turn into the Taliban. Let's try to stick with the topic and stay away from the revised history.
 
danarhea said:
I disagree. The protests in Egypt are being carried on by workers, and the issues are much different than in, say, Iran. The protests in Egypt are much more secular than they are religious. I say we should encourage the protests there. I think we have a chance to end up with an Egypt that shares a few of the same values we do.
Click to expand...

The Muslim Brotherhood is the largest political party in Egypt. That kinda signals that this won't end up with a transition to a more western style of government.
 
apdst said:
The Muslim Brotherhood is the largest political party in Egypt. That kinda signals that this won't end up with a transition to a more western style of government.
Click to expand...
Muslim Brotherhood is probably the largest party but not near a majority alone.
As such the PM might very well be a 'hood'.

However, I see this guy as more likely President. I'm not a fan of elBaradei either. He showed himself biased/uneven IMO as IAEA/Nuclear watchdog.
Video/Interview.
ElBaradei: Egypt is Not Stable
http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2011/01/25/ctw.intv.elbaradei.cnn.html
 
Last edited:
I hope they succeed at removing the tyrant dictator from his throne. Egyptians deserve FREEDOM not dictator!
 
danarhea said:
I disagree. The protests in Egypt are being carried on by workers, and the issues are much different than in, say, Iran. The protests in Egypt are much more secular than they are religious. I say we should encourage the protests there. I think we have a chance to end up with an Egypt that shares a few of the same values we do.
Click to expand...

I said more likely than in Tunisia... I didn't make a comparison to Iran. I also listed what I believe to be mitigating factors, but if you ignore the fact that the Muslim Brotherhood is a potent force in the country and that if their IS a vacuum there to be filled in, they are as ready as anyone else to fill it... that IS a real danger, even if not as strong a one as in Iran.
 
from several of the comments listed here i get the idea that people only support democracy in the middle east if they vote in a pro-us government. the palestinians wanted hamas, oh that can't be democratic, we heard. the irannians voted in ahmadedijad, that had to be vote rigging. nevermind the fact that we don't allow elections in key countries that let us build bases such as saudi arabia and yemen. and yes we are the ones not allowing it by giving all the weapons to their despots.

you have to choose one or the other, either democratic nations that don't want our military bases, or despots that'll support our imperialism in the region. you clearly can't have both...
 
Zyroh said:
from several of the comments listed here i get the idea that people only support democracy in the middle east if they vote in a pro-us government. the palestinians wanted hamas, oh that can't be democratic, we heard. the irannians voted in ahmadedijad, that had to be vote rigging. nevermind the fact that we don't allow elections in key countries that let us build bases such as saudi arabia and yemen. and yes we are the ones not allowing it by giving all the weapons to their despots.
Click to expand...

Hamas was voted in in legislative elections, not presidential. They then proceded to illegally (within Palestinian law) to seize control of executive functions in Gaza. As for Iran, do you truly believe that is a democracy?

I would like to see a genuine democracy in Egypt.

you have to choose one or the other, either democratic nations that don't want our military bases, or despots that'll support our imperialism in the region. you clearly can't have both...
Click to expand...

Remember when Democratic Philippines kicked out the US from bases in that country? And the U.S. supported the people's power movement that led to that decision...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom