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SKorea storms Somali pirates to rescue ship crew Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/w

Re: SKorea storms Somali pirates to rescue ship crew Read more: http://www.foxnews.c

Albert Di Salvo said:
International waters begin twelve miles from the Somali coast. How many ships have been seized by your countrymen within that twelve mile limit? How many ships have been seized beyond the twelve mile limit?
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You can see it for yourself. How many dots are ridiculously close to Somalia's coast.
Why are they there? No doubt to steal more resources and/or dump their toxic waste.

As I said, I am not going to condemn it. So I have no idea what you want now
 
Re: SKorea storms Somali pirates to rescue ship crew Read more: http://www.foxnews.c

Laila said:
You can see it for yourself. How many dots are ridiculously close to Somalia's coast.
Why are they there? No doubt to steal more resources and/or dump their toxic waste.

As I said, I am not going to condemn it. So I have no idea what you want now
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First of all, you have no evidence that resources were being stolen or toxic wastes were being dumped. If you have such evidence now would be a good time to present it.

Secondly, you refuse to address the captivity of more than six hundred innocent sailors being held hostage by criminals in Somalia. Why won't you address their plight?
 
Re: SKorea storms Somali pirates to rescue ship crew Read more: http://www.foxnews.c

LOL
You mean evidence like United Nations Environment Programme and EU saying systematic illegal dumping and fishing has been occurring in Somalia?

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Tsunami waves could have spread illegally dumped nuclear waste and other toxic waste on Somalia's coast, a United Nations spokesman has said.

Nick Nuttall of the UN Environment Programme (UNEP) told the BBC that December's tsunami appeared to have broken barrels and scattered waste.
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BBC NEWS | Africa | Waves 'brought waste to Somalia'

How about some links about European and Asian companies illegally fishing?
Do you know what is really funny ... Pirates have badly affected the fishing Industry. Now why would the fishing Industry, in particular tuna be so affected like that :roll:

Take your ignorance elsewhere, why do you think so few African neighbours are fighting Somali Pirates. Because the voluntary coast guards are doing more good than bad.
It is fine when rich countries break law but somehow it is the end of the world when a poor country does the same. Please, it doesn't work like that
 
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Re: SKorea storms Somali pirates to rescue ship crew Read more: http://www.foxnews.c

Laila said:
LOL
You mean evidence like United Nations Environment Programme and EU saying systematic illegal dumping and fishing has been occurring in Somalia?

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BBC NEWS | Africa | Waves 'brought waste to Somalia'

How about some links about European and Asian companies illegally fishing?
Do you know what is really funny ... Pirates have badly affected the fishing Industry. Now why would the fishing Industry, in particular tuna be so affected like that :roll:

Take your ignorance elsewhere, why do you think so few African neighbours are fighting Somali Pirates. Because the voluntary coast guards are doing more good than bad.
It is fine when rich countries break law but somehow it is the end of the world when a poor country does the same. Please, it doesn't work like that
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You have made a major error. The tsunami waves from international waters brought toxins to the coast of Somalia, not the ships that were seized within the twelve mile limit. So in other words the Somali pirates didn't seize the ships that illegally dumped toxins into international waters. Instead they seized easy targets. Can you explain that flaw in your argument?


Also, why won't you address the subject of the six hundred innocent sailors being held against their will by your countrymen?
 
Re: SKorea storms Somali pirates to rescue ship crew Read more: http://www.foxnews.c

Albert Di Salvo said:
You have made a major error. The tsunami waves from international waters brought toxins to the coast of Somalia, not the ships that were seized within the twelve mile limit. So in other words the Somali pirates didn't seize the ships that illegally dumped toxins into international waters. Instead they seized easy targets. Can you explain that flaw in your argument?
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Good god. Yes, they magically flew from countries and ended up near Somalia. :roll:
Somalia has been used as a illegal dumping ground by Western and Asian countries for decades. The Tsunami made those containers dumped come onto shore and has affected the locals

You don't condemn those countries but expect me to start condemning people defending their country and people? No no.

Also, why won't you address the subject of the six hundred innocent sailors being held against their will by your countrymen?
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Why won't you address you wanting genocide of women and children?
 
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Re: SKorea storms Somali pirates to rescue ship crew Read more: http://www.foxnews.c

Albert Di Salvo said:
You have made a major error. The tsunami waves from international waters brought toxins to the coast of Somalia, not the ships that were seized within the twelve mile limit. So in other words the Somali pirates didn't seize the ships that illegally dumped toxins into international waters. Instead they seized easy targets. Can you explain that flaw in your argument?
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Didn't you read her link?

Some firms have been dumping waste off Somalia's coast for years, the UN says.
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Re: SKorea storms Somali pirates to rescue ship crew Read more: http://www.foxnews.c

Laila said:
I don't think you seem to be understanding me when I say everyone hates Ethiopia.
Oh and Eritrea doesn't like US. I should have said that earlier.

Eritrea wouldn't step foot in Puntland as it has to go through Somaliland :2wave:
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Well of course not... it is a Muslim country... :p The number of Muslim countries that like the US are very small.

You do realize that modern-day Eritrea is a legacy of Islamic aggression against Christian kingdoms... The port of Adulis was once a very important port of the predecessor kingdom of Axum...
 
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ludahai said:
Well of course not... it is a Muslim country... :p The number of Muslim countries that like the US are very small.

You do realize that modern-day Eritrea is a legacy of Islamic aggression against Christian kingdoms... The port of Adulis was once a very important port of the predecessor kingdom of Axum...
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True, US does have that affect on many countries :lol:

Oh I know. Historically Eritrea used to be Christian and part of Ethiopia

I feel no sympathy for Ethiopia tho. It has stolen land from others and now it is landlocked itself. The world works in funny ways, Ethiopia surrounded by Muslim countries. South Sudan will also have to make friendly with HOA Muslim countries to have access to the sea, as does Ethiopia :shrug:
 
Re: SKorea storms Somali pirates to rescue ship crew Read more: http://www.foxnews.c

Laila said:
True, US does have that affect on many countries :lol:

Oh I know. Historically Eritrea used to be Christian and part of Ethiopia

I feel no sympathy for Ethiopia tho. It has stolen land from others and now it is landlocked itself. The world works in funny ways, Ethiopia surrounded by Muslim countries. South Sudan will also have to make friendly with HOA Muslim countries to have access to the sea, as does Ethiopia :shrug:
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Who did Ethiopia steal land from? It was the only independent African nation state for a long time. Ogaden (I presume you speak of this region) was part of Axum at its height, then was part of Islamic kingdoms, and then was regained by Ethiopia prior to the end of the 19th century. Sounds like a region that was fought over by neighboring kingdoms over time... can't say it "stole" the land... nice appeal to emotion, though...
 
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ludahai said:
Who did Ethiopia steal land from? It was the only independent African nation state for a long time. Ogaden (I presume you speak of this region) was part of Axum at its height, then was part of Islamic kingdoms, and then was regained by Ethiopia prior to the end of the 19th century. Sounds like a region that was fought over by neighboring kingdoms over time... can't say it "stole" the land... nice appeal to emotion, though...
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Ogaden was part of Somalia not Ethiopia. The tribes that have always settled there were never Christian, and still are tied to Somalis in the South. The land belongs to the Darood, not Ethiopia.

The only reason Ogaden came to Ethiopia is through a colonial back room deal without the say of the people (hence the resistance movement which fights Ethiopia's control) and has been in Ethiopia's possession for only a few decades, as opposed to the centuries it has been Somali territory and history. Eritrea may have history with Ethiopia, Western Somalia does not. Ethiopian Soldiers have done enough damage and have oppressed the people there so badly they have ensured peace will never occur long term without a referendum.

But I suppose it's justice enough Ethiopia is landlocked and will always be at the mercy of the goodwill of Muslim countries surrounding it.
 
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Re: SKorea storms Somali pirates to rescue ship crew Read more: http://www.foxnews.c

Laila said:
Ogaden was part of Somalia not Ethiopia. The tribes that have always settled there were never Christian, and still are tied to Somalis in the South. The land belongs to the Darood, not Ethiopia.

The only reason Ogaden came to Ethiopia is through a colonial back room deal without the say of the people (hence the resistance movement which fights Ethiopia's control) and has been in Ethiopia's possession for only a few decades, as opposed to the centuries it has been Somali territory and history. Eritrea may have history with Ethiopia, Western Somalia does not. Ethiopian Soldiers have done enough damage and have oppressed the people there so badly they have ensured peace will never occur long term without a referendum.

But I suppose it's justice enough Ethiopia is landlocked and will always be at the mercy of the goodwill of Muslim countries surrounding it.
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Ogaden had been under Ethiopian control several times throughout history. Never said they were Christian, but what state in Africa is ethnically homogenous, except for the very small states of the continent. Somalia invaded Ethiopia in the 1970s. When Italia defeated Ethiopia in the 1930s, Ogaden was separated from Ethiopia and attached to its Somaliland colony. It was after that that the "backdoor deal" between Rome, London and Addis Ababa occurred. It merely effectuated a RETURN of land that was taken away from Ethiopia by the Italians in 1936.
 
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ludahai said:
Ogaden had been under Ethiopian control several times throughout history. Never said they were Christian, but what state in Africa is ethnically homogenous, except for the very small states of the continent. Somalia invaded Ethiopia in the 1970s. When Italia defeated Ethiopia in the 1930s, Ogaden was separated from Ethiopia and attached to its Somaliland colony. It was after that that the "backdoor deal" between Rome, London and Addis Ababa occurred. It merely effectuated a RETURN of land that was taken away from Ethiopia by the Italians in 1936.
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Ogaden was originally part of the Muslim territory in the 13th century under the Sultan. Decades later Ethiopia fought and got the land and subsequently the Muslim natives fought against Ethiopian control and continued to do so for a very long time until the Ethiopians branded those Muslims as enemies of the Lord and invaded the territory and killed the people there. (One of the origins of the Somali/Ethiopian dislike/hatred that still kinda exists today in HOA --- Do I make it obvious? :p). Until the 15th century where it left Ethiopian control.
The people native to the Ogaden region are of the Darood tribe. The natives to the land speak Somali, are Somali and identify as Somali and Muslim, not Ethiopian. No amount of Ethiopian occupation will change that fact.

The only reason Ethiopians are oppressing the people there and clinging onto it is because of the high likelihood of oil and gas there which doesn't belong to them!
 
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Re: SKorea storms Somali pirates to rescue ship crew Read more: http://www.foxnews.c

Laila said:
Ogaden was originally part of the Muslim territory in the 13th century under the Sultan. Decades later Ethiopia fought and got the land and subsequently the Muslim natives fought against Ethiopian control and continued to do so for a very long time until the Ethiopians branded those Muslims as enemies of the Lord and invaded the territory and killed the people there. (One of the origins of the Somali/Ethiopian dislike/hatred that still kinda exists today in HOA --- Do I make it obvious? :p). Until the 15th century where it left Ethiopian control.
The people native to the Ogaden region are of the Darood tribe. The natives to the land speak Somali, are Somali and identify as Somali and Muslim, not Ethiopian. No amount of Ethiopian occupation will change that fact.

The only reason Ethiopians are oppressing the people there and clinging onto it is because of the high likelihood of oil and gas there which doesn't belong to them!
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Originally??/ 13th century??? It was a part of Axum far before that and for several centuries... Again, Ogaden, like many other places in the world at that time, were fought over by competing states and changed hands a number of times. You can't justify a claim that one state was aggressive and another was not when BOTH engaged in a policy of expanding their state. Ethnic considerations has NEVER been a factor in sub-Saharan state building, and you know it.
 
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ludahai said:
Originally??/ 13th century??? It was a part of Axum far before that and for several centuries... Again, Ogaden, like many other places in the world at that time, were fought over by competing states and changed hands a number of times. You can't justify a claim that one state was aggressive and another was not when BOTH engaged in a policy of expanding their state. Ethnic considerations has NEVER been a factor in sub-Saharan state building, and you know it.
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Fair enough but then it cancels out the claim from both sides and it should be up to the natives on which side they wish to fall on.

I have always been a supporter of a referendum because this issue will always be hanging like a cloud. If those in Ogaden choose to stay with Ethiopia. It should be respected ...

But I doubt anyone would
 
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Laila said:
Fair enough but then it cancels out the claim from both sides and it should be up to the natives on which side they wish to fall on.

I have always been a supporter of a referendum because this issue will always be hanging like a cloud. If those in Ogaden choose to stay with Ethiopia. It should be respected ...

But I doubt anyone would
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That isn't how international law works. Ogaden is a part of Ethopia. This has been confirmed by treaty. There isn't even a functioning Somali state right now. Granted, abuses by the government in Addis Ababa should be condemned, however, that does not give Somalia a right to invade and begin a war as it did nor does it confer on the people a right to referendum. It violates one of the founding premises of the OAU (the predecessor of the AU) as well as modern international law.
 
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apdst said:
That's probably a negative. South Korea sent troops to Vietnam. You could be thinking about Japan. I know they all look the same to you.
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He was referring to Japan's ROE.
 
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StillBallin75 said:
He was referring to Japan's ROE.
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Japan still has a pretty formidible defense force and they are once again (this time pretty seriously) talking of scrapping the article in the constitution regarding its armed forces in response to China's buildup and incursions into Japanese territorial and EEZ waters...
 
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ludahai said:
Japan still has a pretty formidible defense force and they are once again (this time pretty seriously) talking of scrapping the article in the constitution regarding its armed forces in response to China's buildup and incursions into Japanese territorial and EEZ waters...
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Wonder what the American military leadership thinks about that. Wonder how most Japanese people view MacArthur nowadays. He did a good job in reconstruction but I never really liked the guy he was a complete asshole.
 
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StillBallin75 said:
Wonder what the American military leadership thinks about that. Wonder how most Japanese people view MacArthur nowadays. He did a good job in reconstruction but I never really liked the guy he was a complete asshole.
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From my conversations with Japanese, he is generally well respected, especially by those who are older. They generally regard him as tough in war but generous in victory...
 
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ludahai said:
From my conversations with Japanese, he is generally well respected, especially by those who are older. They generally regard him as tough in war but generous in victory...
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I have a friend who's Japanese and from my impression it's true they generally respect him, and deplore the militaristic culture under the imperialist leadership and the role he played in that turnaround and helping to rebuild Japan. However George C. Marshall is my favorite American general.
 
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StillBallin75 said:
I have a friend who's Japanese and from my impression it's true they generally respect him, and deplore the militaristic culture under the imperialist leadership and the role he played in that turnaround and helping to rebuild Japan. However George C. Marshall is my favorite American general.
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I actually have a tremendous amount of respect for Robert E. Lee even though I hail from the North...
 
Re: SKorea storms Somali pirates to rescue ship crew Read more: http://www.foxnews.c

not that i support random violence or theft of property, but i think a bit of balancing is needed here. all of these somali pirating organization got their start in the early nineties after their government fell. there was no one there to protect their shores from invaders and almost suddenly european ships came by and started dumping nuclear waste off the shore of somalia. the first so called pirates, were just a few guys in speed boats with automatic weapons shooting at atomic litterers who were poisoning the pirates' wives and children. but don't worry, i'm sure while nato patrols to make sure no vigilante somalis protect their shore they'll also make sure no one is taking advantage of the situation and dumping their toxic garbage there.
 
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Zyroh said:
not that i support random violence or theft of property, but i think a bit of balancing is needed here. all of these somali pirating organization got their start in the early nineties after their government fell. there was no one there to protect their shores from invaders and almost suddenly european ships came by and started dumping nuclear waste off the shore of somalia. the first so called pirates, were just a few guys in speed boats with automatic weapons shooting at atomic litterers who were poisoning the pirates' wives and children. but don't worry, i'm sure while nato patrols to make sure no vigilante somalis protect their shore they'll also make sure no one is taking advantage of the situation and dumping their toxic garbage there.
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Good point. I think a lot of people easily forget this history. Of course, it doesn't excuse what is going on now with their increasing reach into the Indian Ocean, but it is important to understand the historical context.
 
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The Giant Noodle said:
OR... Roe Conn! On WLS AM 890 in Chicago :2wave:
WLS 890AM

Entertaining fella!
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i don't know what pisses me off more, that a packer fan enjoys roe, or that roe appeals to a packer fan.
 
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