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Path Is Sought for States to Escape Debt Burdens

States had better be able to find an alternative. The bond market is collapsing right now due to these rumors. It's a matter of time before nobody's going to buy their debt paper whether they declare or not. It would be a complete disaster. Would the Chinese buy our national debt if bankruptcy of states became possible? That's an unspoken warning that the Fed could do the very same thing. What a freakin' mess.



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The Chinese are slowly moving away from US Treasury securities. Btw, the Chinese do not buy state, local and municipal bond issues in America. This is irrelevant to them.
 
And the muni bonds go in the toilet.

Well done...

Thank you. No pain no gain girlfriend. I see an opportunity to administer the coup de grace to a big segment of the left. That is the only thing that matters. It's dangerous to radicalize one's enemies isn't it?
 
The Chinese are slowly moving away from US Treasury securities. Btw, the Chinese do not buy state, local and municipal bond issues in America. This is irrelevant to them.

In my opinion, it would not be irrelevant to them if our state governments began declaring bankruptcy. Right now, state's cannot legally declare bankruptcy. Change that law and destroy credibility. "Full faith and credit of the United States Government" could take on a whoooole new meaning...
 
In my opinion, it would not be irrelevant to them if our state governments began declaring bankruptcy. Right now, state's cannot legally declare bankruptcy. Change that law and destroy credibility. "Full faith and credit of the United States Government" could take on a whoooole new meaning...

I like you, but I don't agree with you on this issue. The FFandCredit Clause of the Constitution is applies to the federal govt., not state govts.
 
I like you, but I don't agree with you on this issue. The FFandCredit Clause of the Constitution is applies to the federal govt., not state govts.

Why, thank you, Albert Di Salva. I like you back. I fully realize that it applies to the Fed. We'll simply agree to disagree on this issue.
 
That is the only solution. The very fabric of the US at stake here.. if the other states or/and Feds dont help save states in trouble, then what is the freaking point of the US any more?

Problem is to fix this issue, the states, politicians and so on have to come out of the total denial they are in.. all options including tax's going up, must be on the table.... and I think pigs will fly before that happens.


The problem with another bail out, is people aren't going to stand for it. Here is a page of how our first nearly trillion dollar stimulus package was spent state by state

Stimulus Legislation, Breakdown by States - The Wall Street Journal Online

Most states took this money, let out a deep sigh, and went right back to their spending policies. In the end all the stimulus money did was prolong the problem for another year. That year is over and we are right back where we started, budget shortfalls in almost every state in the country.

As for the solution? First cut and gut down to the bone and into the bone.

People especially liberals don't like this option, but it's more true then false, because their will not be a bail out of any state. After the 2010 election where the people spoke, and said enough is enough.

The only viable answer for any federal help will come “IF” any state asking for help from the Federal government presents a plan showing deep cuts in their spending, along with tax increases, that would allow them to balance their budgets within a reasonable time frame.

Problem is to fix this issue, the states, politicians and so on have to come out of the total denial they are in.. all options including tax's going up, must be on the table.... and I think pigs will fly before that happens.
I don't agree with the last part of your statement, more and more people are beginning to understand the problem we are in and realize that higher taxes are part of the solution. “BUT” there will be no random taxes accepted, unless they are tied to spending cuts, and these cuts must be real and not just cuts made by creative accounting. Both federal and state governments must do this, people are willing to accept and share responsibility, but only if their government is willing to do the same.

Unrestrained spending, followed by tax hikes, is not the way out of our problem, “it is the problem” and I feel that only when government begins to show they can act responsibly will the people be willing to step up and do their part. It's time our government leads by example, rather then say do as I say and not as I do .
 
These policies presume a revenue problem...when are they going to learn that this is a spending problem. You want to solve the debt problem? Cut up the credit cards and live within your means.
 
These policies presume a revenue problem...when are they going to learn that this is a spending problem. You want to solve the debt problem? Cut up the credit cards and live within your means.


Spending is like heroin to these folks. They are addicted. They can't help themselves. So it's time for love of the very toughest sort.
 
States rights BS. The states do just as bad as the feds when it comes to government. Even the Conservative mecca Texas is in big trouble. Now the states are crying for Federal help. The End is Near.
 
it's pensions and medicaid that are breaking our state budgets

ie, liberal bulwarks all busted and bankrupt

austerity will be FORCED on springfield, albany and sacramento

did you catch cuomo's state of the state?

GOVERNOR ANDREW M. CUOMO STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS | Governor

We have the worst business tax climate in the nation, period. Our taxes are 66% higher than the national average. The costs of pensions are exploding, 1.3 billion in 1998-1999, projected for 2013, 6.2 billion - a 476% increase and its only getting worse. The State of New York spends too much money, it is that blunt and it is that simple. Our spending has far exceeded the rate of inflation. From 1994-2009, inflation was about 2.7% per year; medicaid when up over 5% per year and education went up over 6% per year. We just can’t afford those rates of increase. And most damaging, our expenses in this state far exceed revenue. We’ve been focusing on this year and the deficit this year, which is a very large deficit about $10 billion, and that is a major problem. Next year, the problem goes to $14 billion. The year after, the deficit goes to $17 billion. This is a fundamental economic realignment for the State of New York.

Not only to we spend too much, but we get too little in return. We spend more money on education than any state in the nation and we are number 34 in terms of results. We spend more money on Medicaid than any other state in the nation and we are number 21 in results. We spend about $1.6 billion per year in economic development and we are number 50 in terms of results. We now have more than 600 Executive branch agencies. The proof is in the pudding. And New Yorkers are voting with their feet. Two million New Yorkers have left the State over the past decade. What does this say? It says we need radical reform, it says we need a new approach, we need a new perspective and we need it now. We are going to redesign our approach because the old way wasn’t working anyway, let's be honest.

We are going to start by transforming New York’s economy. Because what made New York the Empire State was a not a large government complex, it was a vibrant private sector that was creating great jobs in the State of New York that’s what made us the Empire State once and that’s what’s going to make us the Empire State again. We get it. And this is going to be a business friendly State. The property taxes in New York are killing New Yorkers. Thirteen of the sixteen highest tax counties are in New York when assessed by home value. In absolute dollars, Westchester County has the highest property taxes in the United States of America. Nassau County has the second highest property taxes in the United State of America. It has to end this year. We have to hold the line on taxes for now and reduce taxes in the future. New York has no future as the tax capital of the nation. Our young people will not stay. Our business will not come. This has to change...

are you aware of moonbeam brown's austerity measures out here on the left coast?

California's Brown proposes painful budget cuts | Reuters

of course, we all saw springfield's solution

Illinois Lawmakers Approve 66% Tax Hike « CBS Chicago

pensions and medicaid---if they're so beneficial why are the states collapsing?

republicans in the house are gonna hold hearings on how states can reconfigure their budgetary obligations

boehner's boys and broads will make their demands

it will be interesting to watch

there's gonna be a lot of pain, both popular and progressive

stay tuned
 
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looking for GM style bankruptcy is gonna be the undoing. the little mentioned part of the GM bankruptcy is how the secured bond holders got screwed for the benefit of union pensions. this is the EXACT situation of illinois. if there's a bankruptcy set up by the congress, like they did for gm, in that bond holders get screwed and unions keep their pensions, there will be a similar crisis in type, but far larger in magnitude. there was a commercial credit crisis after the secured bond holders got screwed with GM, but the fed stopped that crisis by buying $9Trillion in corporate bonds. if the fed takes on all the municipal debt, i think we're in for some serious trouble.
 
looking for GM style bankruptcy is gonna be the undoing. the little mentioned part of the GM bankruptcy is how the secured bond holders got screwed for the benefit of union pensions. this is the EXACT situation of illinois. if there's a bankruptcy set up by the congress, like they did for gm, in that bond holders get screwed and unions keep their pensions, there will be a similar crisis in type, but far larger in magnitude. there was a commercial credit crisis after the secured bond holders got screwed with GM, but the fed stopped that crisis by buying $9Trillion in corporate bonds. if the fed takes on all the municipal debt, i think we're in for some serious trouble.

There's simply no way out because the country is no longer as affluent as it was. No matter what they do the numbers don't pencil out. The longer the states delay in accepting tough medicine the harder will be the fall.
 
Let's put it another way: The states are like a family that buys a house and some time there after, has a pay cut. They have debts they can't really pay, essential items that just can't be cut (i.e. food) and they need to make the money they have go farther. So what can they do?

The can sell new bonds at low interest rates (if they can get anyone to buy them) as an attempt to refinance. They can cut spending on non-essential services. They can raise taxes and get a short term bump with the caveat of a long term fall. They can also issue IOUs like California did.

But my favorite is that each state can create their own bank and their own money. If they back that money with a precious metal like gold or silver, they can use projected increases in the value of their state issued money to raise revenue today and to pay debts later as their money's value increases in relation to the US Dollar.
 
I think California should sell its State Parks to private buyers. California can permit its Redwood Forests to be cut. The seal lion colonies can be culled and the hides can be sold as trinkets for Chinese children. California doesn't need universities. California needs jobs.
 
Do you realize they let even a single SINGLE state do this, and the municipal bond market would collapse. How does that help anyone?

um... the municipal bond market collapses. you just answered your own question.
 
Do you realize they let even a single SINGLE state do this, and the municipal bond market would collapse. How does that help anyone?

This.

Gee, I agree with Mr. V.

Should the first state be required to give advance notice so that municipal bond investors can get out in time? Even if they did, there's a ton of folks with 401Ks that don't really follow where there investments are currently working.

Yes, the other 49 states would see an exodus of municipal bond investors. Got projects in the works? Not any longer.
 
Here's the deal. If the federal government bails out California, as it did GM, then what does that do to California's state's rights? What does the federal government get in exchange? Does California now have a lesser voice?

Is this a route to a stronger central government and lesser state power like, oh, Arizona, which is taking on Washington for the right to institute a stronger immigration policy?

Obamacare is going to bankrupt every state. Think about that.

National Healthcare doesn't even kick in for 3 more years. The States are already bankrupt. So much for your stance on things.
 
today: State Bankruptcy Would Change Life for Public Pensioners, Bond Holders - ABC News

more states looking for ways out

arizona, california, new york, illinois...

locals and municipals---vallejo, orange county, harrisburg

arizona SOLD its capitol building

CA is raising tuitions thru the roof

vallejo bondholders are expecting 5 to 20 cents on the dollar

just like the stockholders for gm and chrysler who got pennies while the uaw was awarded 55%

for our suffering states, the problem is two---pensions and medicaid (which obamacare greatly exacerbates)

Governors balk over what healthcare bill will cost states - The Boston Globe

live em, libs, love em, they're all yours

seeya at the polls
 
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today: State Bankruptcy Would Change Life for Public Pensioners, Bond Holders - ABC News

more states looking for ways out

arizona, california, new york, illinois...

locals and municipals---vallejo, orange county, harrisburg

arizona SOLD its capitol building

CA is raising tuitions thru the roof

vallejo bondholders are expecting 5 to 20 cents on the dollar

just like the stockholders for gm and chrysler who got pennies while the uaw was awarded 55%

for our suffering states, the problem is two---pensions and medicaid (which obamacare greatly exacerbates)

Governors balk over what healthcare bill will cost states - The Boston Globe

live em, libs, love em, they're all yours

seeya at the polls

Funny.............. Eight years of republican rule got us to this point.
 
sacto, albany and springfield?

public pensions and medicaid?

LOL!

party on, pal

seeya at the polls
 
The main burden on states is union demanded benefits. Legislation that allows those benefits to be cut will be a big help.

Here in Austin we have tons of people who are getting retirement benefits and another check as a consultant in their old job. Just ending double and triple dipping would help too.

It’s insane that public employees create nothing but make more money than the people who do
 
The main burden on states is union demanded benefits. Legislation that allows those benefits to be cut will be a big help.

Here in Austin we have tons of people who are getting retirement benefits and another check as a consultant in their old job. Just ending double and triple dipping would help too.

It’s insane that public employees create nothing but make more money than the people who do

Can I get that job? :D
 
Funny.............. Eight years of republican rule got us to this point.

Always amuses when people say silly things liek this. The State House composition is always ignored.

BTW Arnold was a RINO.
 
Always amuses when people say silly things liek this. The State House composition is always ignored.

BTW Arnold was a RINO.

The worst recession since the Great Depession starting in '06 caused the plummeting revenues and problems the states are facing today. Even conservative Texas is in trouble. Perry was a republican. Facing the truth amuses you?
But it is now facing the same revenue declines that have plagued most states in the union. The comptroller last week estimated Texas would only have $72 billion in general revenue available for this fiscal 2012-13 budget, down from $87 billion two years ago.

What's more, Texas would have to spend an additional $12 billion over the next two years just to maintain services at their current levels.

I know some of you are conditioned to believe the economic collapse started the day Obama took office.
 
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The worst recession since the Great Depession starting in '06 caused the plummeting revenues and problems the states are facing today. Even conservative Texas is in trouble. Perry was a republican. Facing the truth amuses you?

I know some of you are conditioned to believe the economic collapse started the day Obama took office.

Texas isn't in trouble. We have $9 billion in savings to use to get through lean times.

Now, it isn't perfect and it definitely isn't a boom time...but we are managing and our budget will come in balanced: Texas Senate budget also bleak, has more school funds than House version | The American Independent When all is said and done, they will come to a compromise that does reduce government responsibilities...but doesn't intrude on freedoms.
 
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