• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Health Care Reform Repeal Passes House

ender1 said:
What I love is that the Republicans had control of the House, Senate and the Presidency for six years and did nothing about Health care. After ignoring the problem we were left with skyrocketing costs and 50 million without insurance. Being involved with health care I personally have seen families futures destroyed because of an illness or accident. Being also involved in Banking I can tell you that the number one reason for bankruptcy is medical bills that can not be paid. Mostly due to a lack of health care. The system was broken and the Repubicans had no ideas to fix it. If they did they had all the power to do it and waisted it.

I have concerns for the health care bill that was passed last year but at least it showed that they cared and were trying to fix a badly broken system. What have the Republicans done asside from complain about the Democrats plan.
Click to expand...

do libertarians believe the federal government should run health care?
 
EnigmaO01 said:
Bingo! And one of the big deceptions is it's not being said by the right why many were't happy with the health care bill. Many like myself didn't think it went far enough! Single payer system and get health care the number one expense off of the backs of employers and you would see expansion and growth of the likes you have never seen!

But hey what do you expect from the party of no and sore losers? They'll take the country down as long as they get their way. McConnell and Boner thing they got a republican mandate. Wrong!
Click to expand...

why should we have to pay for your healthcare?
 
TurtleDude said:
why should we have to pay for your healthcare?
Click to expand...

Why should I have to pay for your police protection?

Why should I have to pay for your fire protection?

Why should I have to pay for your roads?

Why should I have to pay for your libraries?

Why should I have to pay for your parks?
 
The Prof said:
fine, but you can't fix something by making it worse
Click to expand...

Obviously you can, because even if the health care bill gets repealed, Republicans now have a fire lit under their a**es to actually do something about health care.
 
disneydude said:
Why should I have to pay for your police protection?

Why should I have to pay for your fire protection?

Why should I have to pay for your roads?

Why should I have to pay for your libraries?

Why should I have to pay for your parks?
Click to expand...

you don't so stop lying

those are all local issues and you live in california

epic FAIL on your part
 
TurtleDude said:
do libertarians believe the federal government should run health care?
Click to expand...

No, and I dont think this was the best solution. But I do think it was a move in the right direction. What was the Republican fix?
 
ender1 said:
No, and I dont think this was the best solution. But I do think it was a move in the right direction. What was the Republican fix?
Click to expand...

so you think more government control was a good idea
interesting libertarian perspective
 
TurtleDude said:
why should we have to pay for your healthcare?
Click to expand...

I pay for the best health care you can buy so nobody pays for mine but me. Having 50 million without health care is bad. How can I give consumer loans to people who have judgments and bankruptcy's.
 
TurtleDude said:
so you think more government control was a good idea
interesting libertarian perspective
Click to expand...

Its interesting watching you defend a position of inaction towards one of the most serious problems facing America. All I hear from the right is "no" without any solutions to the problems.
 
Johnny Centrist said:
Its interesting watching you defend a position of inaction towards one of the most serious problems facing America. All I hear from the right is "no" without any solutions to the problems.
Click to expand...

you seem to argue if a person has a head wound a tourniquet around their neck is better than nothing
 
TurtleDude said:
why should we have to pay for your healthcare?
Click to expand...

You already do pay for the healthcare of others. It is baked into your insurance premuims and your taxes. According the the linked article, the average family's insurance premuims includes $1,017 to pay for the healthcare of the uninsured. Last week, I attended an economic summit breakfast where the regional head of Kaiser stated that number as $1,800 per family per year. The "tax" exists... and it pays for very, very expensive emergency room care, rather than much cheaper preventive care.
 
this is just the beginning of a profound polemic that is gonna preoccupy american politics the next 2 years and beyond

the goip is gonna go after obamacare in the senate, we will revisit it upstairs in the summer, we will take it on in the courts (26 states object to the mandate), we will remedy it at the state level (gubs, legislature, ag's, insurance commissioners), we will expose its dozens of ugly realities in hearings in the house where we have subpoena power

we will address the 1099's, the hiring of irs agents, the massive cuts to medicare, the collection of citizens' personal data, the 200 billion dollar unfunded mandate on the states in the form of expanded medicaid, the 10 years of taxes vs 6 of benefits, the exemptions of the too bigs from the annual limit, the sanctions against physician owned hospitals

and, more than anything else, THE MANDATE

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/09/buy-insurance-or-go-to-jail-.html

repeal of the mean mandate is a DONE deal downstairs anytime we decide to go

upstairs, meanwhile, senator mccaskill (and, therefore, presumably, joe manchin, ben nelson, bill nelson, jon tester, kent conrad, jiltin joe lieberman and others) are waiting

McCaskill moves away from mandate - David Catanese - POLITICO.com

without the mandate, the forced inclusion of the young invulnerables, the entire obamacare unravels

and that aint ME talkin

read

Repeal vote is just Republicans' first step on health care - Carrie Budoff Brown - POLITICO.com
 
Last edited:
TurtleDude said:
you seem to argue if a person has a head wound a tourniquet around their neck is better than nothing
Click to expand...

Who would you praise more, the guy who tried to save the man with a bullet in his head, or the guy who stood there and watched him die?
 
Zaserac said:
As I understand matters there are now 26 states fighting this bill (half the country) and numerous constitituional challenges to it.
Click to expand...

There is ONE highly dubious constitutional challenge to it. Which the Supreme Court will never accept, and even if they did, it wouldn't invalidate the entire bill. It would just invalidate the individual mandate, thus bringing about the total demise of the private health insurance industry and increasing the need for government action.

Zaserac said:
Add to that the fact that tomorrow the republicans will start going about other methods of defunding and defeating the bill.
Click to expand...

Can't be done. The vast majority of the bill is entitlement spending, not discretionary spending. The Republicans can't simply choose to defund it unless the bill is repealed. At most, they can defund some minor, noncontroversial elements of the bill.

Zaserac said:
I think the chances that this bill will actually survive and be enacted as intended are pretty slim. With or without Obama's threatened veto. The president may yet decide that it is not in his best interest to veto the bill owing to public sentiment.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm sure it would be in his best interest to sell out all the people who voted for him to enact this legislation. He could TOTALLY get conservatives to vote for him then! What a wonderful idea. :roll:
 
upsideguy said:
You already do pay for the healthcare of others. It is baked into your insurance premuims and your taxes. According the the linked article, the average family's insurance premuims includes $1,017 to pay for the healthcare of the uninsured. Last week, I attended an economic summit breakfast where the regional head of Kaiser stated that number as $1,800 per family per year. The "tax" exists... and it pays for very, very expensive emergency room care, rather than much cheaper preventive care.
Click to expand...

that is no answer-I asked why should I
 
Johnny Centrist said:
Who would you praise more, the guy who tried to save the man with a bullet in his head, or the guy who stood there and watched him die?
Click to expand...

someone who actively killed him vs one who did not?

liberals operate under the concept that they must DO SOMETHING whether its good or harmful. in most cases its harmful
 
So today the Republicans voted in favor of denying healthcare to 50 million Americans, for allowing insurance companies to deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions, for continuing a system that is the primary reason for 60% of individual bankruptcies, for allowing insurance companies to continue with bloated administrative costs rather than paying claims.... for perpetuating one of the least efficient healthcare delivery systems in the world.

No question the Republicans today well differentiated themselves from progressives, proving once and for all it is the regressive party.

Get an original idea Republicans or watch the house flip once again in two years...
 
The Prof said:
you mean like this?

Obama Calls Tax Cuts the 'Right Thing to Do'
Click to expand...

If you recall he got quite a bit of grief from liberals about that too. But that would be nothing compared to repealing health care reform. Although it pissed them off, most liberals were willing to swallow a two-year extension of tax cuts for the rich. If Obama tried to repeal health care, he'd face an open rebellion from his base and almost certainly would face a credible primary challenger.

But this is all an academic point anyway. There is absolutely no way in hell that Obama is going to support the repeal of something that he campaigned on in 2008, that he spent two years working with Congress to pass, and that he has defended since then. Dream the **** on. :roll:
 
ender1 said:
What I love is that the Republicans had control of the House, Senate and the Presidency for six years and did nothing about Health care.

After ignoring the problem we were left with skyrocketing costs and 50 million without insurance.

What have the Republicans done asside from complain about the Democrats plan.
Click to expand...

And the Dems did 'what', exactly, when they were in charge? Nothing.

Yes. Certainly that is completely the fault of the GOP. :rolleyes:

Health Care - GOP Solutions for America - GOP.gov
 
Kandahar said:
There is absolutely no way in hell that Obama is going to support the repeal of something that he campaigned on in 2008, that he spent two years working with Congress to pass, and that he has defended since then.
Click to expand...

you're 100% correct

but mccaskill says she'll kill the mandate

and pros know what that means
 
hazlnut said:
Now you'll pay less.
Click to expand...

more cartoons

Extrapolating the estimated budgetary effects of the original health care legislation and accounting for the effects of subsequent legislation, CBO anticipates that enacting H.R. 2 would probably yield, for the 2012-2021 period, a reduction in revenues in the neighborhood of $770 billion and a reduction in outlays in the vicinity of $540 billion, plus or minus the effects of forthcoming technical and economic changes to CBO’s and JCT’s projections.
Click to expand...

Director's Blog » Blog Archive » Additional Information on CBO’s Preliminary Analysis of H.R. 2
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom