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AZ shooting victim arrested for making death threats against Tea Party leader

VanceMack said:
Im not forgetting it. Im accepting it as a possible cause of ASD. Or simply a mood disorder. But the reality is his behaviors today are consistent with his hyperpartisan behaviors prior to the event. Yes. He suffered a traumatic event. Still no indication of PTSD. If it was from the shooting Saturday it doesnt even meet criteria of duration avoidance, or impairment. 3 out of 6?
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It meets Criteria A, B, D, and F. He probably meets two of the five critera for C. I am only going with the PTSD diagnosis because of the reports that he has already suffered from it. ASD would not be appropriate; this would be a re-triggering of the PTSD. If he didn't suffer PTSD before, than I would agree and say that ASD is the more appropriate diagnosis.
 
Wife is getting grumpy and so its time to head to bed. I actually enjoyed the exchange. I still dont think that this guy is even close to criteria for a PTSD diagnosis (again...with the caveat that we know little of his past). No doubt he siffered a traumatic event. But his behaviors arent significantly different from his past. All I can do is take him at his words.

"Today I'm back on my feet, more or less, and I'm in a combative mood," Fuller said as he limped across the store parking lot. "It's helping me. I've never had any trauma like this in my life."

Later, he showed up at the home of accused gunman Jared Loughner, who lived within a half-mile of Fuller. "He said he was going to forgive him for shooting him," Richard Elder, 86, a retired medical mechanic who lives next door to Fuller, told The Associated Press Sunday. "If anyone shot me, I don't think I'd say, 'Hey feller, that's alright.'"
Fuller posted about eight campaign signs in front of his house during the last election, including one for Giffords. And although Fuller was friendly, he acted odd sometimes, Elder said. Once, Fuller asked him if he was going to vote. "I told him there are two things I don't talk about: politics or religion. I told him that, and he walked off without another word." He said Fuller had shown him his bullet wounds and seemed to be dealing with the shooting well."

As I said, I dont think the guy should go to jail. I dont see a value to it. I think if the 'victim' of his threat (time to put on the big boy pants) were a smart man, he would offer to meet with the guy, talk to him, show a little class. For some reason I dont have much hope of that happening.
 
Re: Shooting Victim Threatens Tea Partier

CaptainCourtesy said:
You must have missed it because I didn't read any of those threads, so I have no knowledge of what the sheriff said.

But I'm sure you have seen my outrage at people accusing Palin of causing this, right? Try not to be selective.
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I know I responded to this once already but I thought about it and something just wasn’t right.

Are you saying that you have never seen the 6:00 pm (AZ time) news briefing from the night of the shooting where the Pima County Sheriff made his preposterous statements? It was the first news briefing following the tragedy.

You didn’t see it live or on You-Tube or somewhere on this forum?

If not, you don’t keep yourself as informed on the issues as I had expected you would.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
It meets Criteria A, B, D, and F. He probably meets two of the five critera for C. I am only going with the PTSD diagnosis because of the reports that he has already suffered from it. ASD would not be appropriate; this would be a re-triggering of the PTSD. If he didn't suffer PTSD before, than I would agree and say that ASD is the more appropriate diagnosis.
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I dont know...I can see A and B...not C nor D and E and there isnt anything in his behavior that I can tell that is significantly different than the past. Certainly not adequate duration. Not ASD...but ASD closer than PTSD (we dont know what we dont know). And currently, Mood D/O NOS. Nothing more.

Regardless...the incident was an emotional outburst. He didnt threaten anyone. I suspect he was doing little more than trying to make a point (although yelling at the crowd and calling them all whores...well...the sad part is I can see a LOT of people thyese days doing the same thing). Its time for people to let this simmer down.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
It meets Criteria A, B, D, and F. He probably meets two of the five critera for C. I am only going with the PTSD diagnosis because of the reports that he has already suffered from it. ASD would not be appropriate; this would be a re-triggering of the PTSD. If he didn't suffer PTSD before, than I would agree and say that ASD is the more appropriate diagnosis.
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And fix your damn dot. Ever since it was pointed out its driving me crazy! ;)
 
Re: Shooting Victim Threatens Tea Partier

GPS_Flex said:
I know I responded to this once already but I thought about it and something just wasn’t right.

Are you saying that you have never seen the 6:00 pm (AZ time) news briefing from the night of the shooting where the Pima County Sheriff made his preposterous statements? It was the first news briefing following the tragedy.

You didn’t see it live or on You-Tube or somewhere on this forum?

If not, you don’t keep yourself as informed on the issues as I had expected you would.
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That's exactly what I'm saying. I was working until midnight that night. Also, I haven't watched any news on the TV in about 10 years. I refuse because it's not news... it's entertainment and biased entertainment at that. I also hate watching youtube videos. I read about what the sheriff said, the next day on an internet news article, minimally. Thought he was a complete inciting idiot just making things worse. I had no desire to read any of the threads about him. So, I didn't.
 
VanceMack said:
And fix your damn dot. Ever since it was pointed out its driving me crazy! ;)
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That's Raul, my pet gnat. He posts for me sometimes. He's my secret weapon. :2razz:
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
That's Raul, my pet gnat. He posts for me sometimes. He's my secret weapon. :2razz:
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OK...but Im going to charge you for the new monitor because I keep rubbing my screen.

Night!
 
VanceMack said:
I dont know...I can see A and B...not C nor D and E and there isnt anything in his behavior that I can tell that is significantly different than the past. Certainly not adequate duration. Not ASD...but ASD closer than PTSD (we dont know what we dont know). And currently, Mood D/O NOS. Nothing more.
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A and B for sure. Probably not C, definitely not E. Certainly D and F. I agree with the duration issue, but that depends on whether he already had PTSD. It could have been retriggering. If not, closer to ASD. I don't know his current state, so I don't know what I would currently diagnose him with. Probably still PTSD. Not Mood Disorder NOS... not with the quick and dramatic onset, though it is possible after taking a history. We are generally speculating based on current symptoms without a complete history. We both know that is no way to diagnose someone.

Regardless...the incident was an emotional outburst. He didnt threaten anyone. I suspect he was doing little more than trying to make a point (although yelling at the crowd and calling them all whores...well...the sad part is I can see a LOT of people thyese days doing the same thing). Its time for people to let this simmer down.
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I would agree with you here.
 
VanceMack said:
OK...but Im going to charge you for the new monitor because I keep rubbing my screen.

Night!
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Stop rubbing Raul. It gets him excited.

Good talking to you.
 
VanceMack said:
Wife is getting grumpy and so its time to head to bed. I actually enjoyed the exchange. I still dont think that this guy is even close to criteria for a PTSD diagnosis (again...with the caveat that we know little of his past). No doubt he siffered a traumatic event. But his behaviors arent significantly different from his past. All I can do is take him at his words.

"Today I'm back on my feet, more or less, and I'm in a combative mood," Fuller said as he limped across the store parking lot. "It's helping me. I've never had any trauma like this in my life."

Later, he showed up at the home of accused gunman Jared Loughner, who lived within a half-mile of Fuller. "He said he was going to forgive him for shooting him," Richard Elder, 86, a retired medical mechanic who lives next door to Fuller, told The Associated Press Sunday. "If anyone shot me, I don't think I'd say, 'Hey feller, that's alright.'"
Fuller posted about eight campaign signs in front of his house during the last election, including one for Giffords. And although Fuller was friendly, he acted odd sometimes, Elder said. Once, Fuller asked him if he was going to vote. "I told him there are two things I don't talk about: politics or religion. I told him that, and he walked off without another word." He said Fuller had shown him his bullet wounds and seemed to be dealing with the shooting well."

As I said, I dont think the guy should go to jail. I dont see a value to it. I think if the 'victim' of his threat (time to put on the big boy pants) were a smart man, he would offer to meet with the guy, talk to him, show a little class. For some reason I dont have much hope of that happening.
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Anyone who has gone to war, seen a horrible event at any point in their life or suffered from a heinous crime is a possible case of PTSD.
It's quite common - and everyone's affected differently.

My husband's been diagnosed with it - and so have countless others. It's just a part of life in the aftermath of said circumstances.

But just reading a few lines in an article isn't going to be grounds for a diagnosis - Fuller's been hospitalized and they'll figure him out one way or another. If they determine he's a possible threat to others they won't let him go - they will detain him one way or another and try to treat him.

As it should be.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Anyone who has gone to war, seen a horrible event at any point in their life or suffered from a heinous crime is a possible case of PTSD.
It's quite common - and everyone's affected differently.

My husband's been diagnosed with it - and so have countless others. It's just a part of life in the aftermath of said circumstances.

But just reading a few lines in an article isn't going to be grounds for a diagnosis - Fuller's been hospitalized and they'll figure him out one way or another. If they determine he's a possible threat to others they won't let him go - they will detain him one way or another and try to treat him.

As it should be.
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I understand the diagnosis. I also understand the criteria. Im not diagnosing the man...simply stating that based on this traumatic event he doesnt meet criteria for a diagnosis of PTSD and based on his current and recent behaviors prior to the incident there arent indicators of significant behavioral change. We dont know (as I have acknowledged numerous times) what his past history is. Even with a previous diagnosis of PTSD his current behaviors run contradictory to the diagnositic criteria.
 
VanceMack said:
I understand the diagnosis. I also understand the criteria. Im not diagnosing the man...simply stating that based on this traumatic event he doesnt meet criteria for a diagnosis of PTSD and based on his current and recent behaviors prior to the incident there arent indicators of significant behavioral change. We dont know (as I have acknowledged numerous times) what his past history is. Even with a previous diagnosis of PTSD his current behaviors run contradictory to the diagnositic criteria.
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If you understood PTSD then you'd realize that there is no cookie-cutter diagnosis. And sometimes it's not easy to realize someone even has it *or* when they developed it. Symptoms can worsen over time.

It's just a fact of the way things go. My husband is head of a warrior transition unit - he deals with latent PTSD all the time. It's a serious and often unknown issue that many deal with - and many are diagnosed when they, themselves, refuse to see they're having issues.

Fuller was hospitalized, as he should have been - and only in that way will a real diagnosis come out.
 
I doubt that PTSD had anything to do with this guy wanting to kill a person who had nothing to go with him being shot. The guy is a rabid liberal and wants to hate the right and the Tea Party people are right.

A good friend of mine had PTSD back in 1968. On August 6th 1968 he was loading bombs at the biggest bomb bump in the world - we had a capacity of more that 250K bombs – when one of the bombs ruptured and blew him off of his forklift. He flew about fifty feet threw the air and hit on his back. The rest of the crew thought that he was dead – those that thought about Jim before they jumped on the truck and left Jim on the street to die. Luckily for Jim he was not dead so he got up and fan after the truck.

I have to say that the smart move for the crew chief was to get as many men out as quick as possible. When the bomb ruptured it caught fire and the rule is that when high explosives are exposed to fire you have from 0 to 5 minutes to get away. Our accident lasted thirty minutes before 400 750 pound bombs exploded high order. By then Jim was in the hospital with deep burses on his chest – from the blast and on his back from hitting the ground.

In the days that followed Jim did some weird things. He was left to rest in the squadron area so he spent the days and nights drinking for about a month. When he came back to the bomb dump he couldn’t put his foot on the ladder to get back on a forklift. He tried but his foot would shake and he had to put it back on the ground. Jim should have been sent back to a base in Mississippi where he lived but they kept him there the rest of the year.

I don’t know how Jim is doing after all of these years but I wouldn’t be surprised if he is still a changed man. In most of these cases people are killed. Out of the three accidents that we knew of in Thailand – up north –from two to five people were killed each time. You get blown up by 60 tons of high explosives and your mother of wife will get a box of rocks with your name on it.
 
This guy sounds like Sheriff Dumbass' top deputy.

Do they realize how stupid they make liberals look? They might as well blame the shooting on global warming or the killing of baby seals.
 
The Left-wing can only spout their inner core of character ..
they are the perpetrators of projection ..
the Left-wing is totally guilty of what they accuse the Right-wing of . . .
I think they would like to create a platform for violence
( since they can't win at the ballot box or the arena of ideas ) . . . yes,
the verbal violence is now on parade ..
come join me where this issue is a little more defined . . . please click here
yall have a great day ..
dadman


​
 
this attempt to diagnose mr fuller based on a couple paragraphs of copy and, perhaps, a photo flashed on tv is completely unprofessional

and utterly laughable

party on, peeps
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Oh sorry - didn't see your question.
By the law they did the right thing - he posed a direct threat and they responded to his actions.

But I think he's having serious issues and should be placed first and foremost in the care of a psychiatric unit for a little while. . .He needs *help* - not a trial :shrug:

I still don't look *down* on him for what he's feeling. . .do I agree with him or encourage him to act on his feelings? no - but I don't think he's a horrible person for struggling with this.

I really truly hope he pulls through and is given the care he needs. If he pulls through then maybe he'll see things with a different - more reasonable - perspective.

But then again - he might struggle with these issues his whole entire life. (I pray not, though).
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If he "needs" help then he should have gotten help. He didn't, now he will go to trial. Cause and effect. Everyone lives by the consequences of their actions.
 
This guy should be charged, hopefully he gets a deal with the DA for some mental help....


The media vultures picking at this mans carcus to attach this tragedy to the right, should all be hit by a bus..... twice.
 
9 days ago, a shooter opened up on a group of patriotic americans in a safeway parking lot in tucson, a shooter filled with derangment and hate, plagued by job woes and rejection by women, kicked out of college, who tripped on heavy hallucinogens and wrote poems about strapping bombs to babies and talked of torturing students and produced amateur videos touring his "genocide school," who wasn't political, didn't watch news, didn't listen to talk radio, whose most defining animus seemed to revolve around grammar and his twisted conviction that govt was controlling our prepositions and participles, who worked up some perverse animosity against his congresswoman after she in 2007 answered in spanish a question she evidently could make no sense of...

almost before the echo of the bullets returned off the shopping mall's walls, activists of the left, pursuing THEIR observable blood vendetta, openly BLAMED the tragedy on the national leaders of an incipient grassroots movement that swept the nation's congresses in our most recent offyear...

in subsequent days, these completely unfounded ACCUSATIONS of inciting MURDER devolved into a feeding frenzy of fulmination and fury, involving most of the leadership of progressive commentary, from nbc to the ny times...

despite the fact that awareness of the shooter's total lack of connection to anything normal was profusely available and apparent per the assassin's own actions and words repeatedly posted on youtube and the social network, college records, interviews of those who came in contact with him...

exactly one week later, a surviving victim of the lonely assassin, after NAMING beck and palin and rush and angle as the individuals whom HE held responsible for his wounding, threatens to KILL a local figurehead of the movement called out as CONSPIRATORS by the likes of krugman, kos, chris matthews and the VOICE OF LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT, sheriff dupnik...

there's no doubt about it

sarah palin and her reprobate pals are CULPABLE for inspiring to bloodshed with their "heated rhetoric" this 22 year old 12 time loser who, for all anyone knows, never even heard of her

and the times and the sheriff, et al, are completely cleanhanded when it comes to this mr fuller threatening to murder a man the local sheriff and the most noteworthy names in the msm pointed out as the kind of person ultimately responsible for the tragedy

because, after all, both sides do it

hate on, homies
 
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The Prof said:
9 days ago, a shooter opened up on a group of patriotic americans in a safeway parking lot in tucson, a shooter filled with derangment and hate, plagued by job woes and rejection by women, kicked out of college, who tripped on heavy hallucinogens and wrote poems about strapping bombs to babies and talked of torturing students and produced amateur videos touring his "genocide school," who wasn't political, didn't watch news, didn't listen to talk radio, whose most defining animus seemed to revolve around grammar and his twisted conviction that govt was controlling our prepositions and participles, who worked up some perverse animosity against his congresswoman after she in 2007 answered in spanish a question she evidently could make no sense of...

almost before the echo of the bullets returned off the shopping mall's walls, activists of the left, pursuing THEIR observable blood vendetta, openly BLAMED the tragedy on the national leaders of an incipient grassroots movement that swept the nation's congresses in our most recent offyear...

in subsequent days, these completely unfounded ACCUSATIONS of inciting MURDER devolved into a feeding frenzy of fulmination and fury, involving most of the leadership of progressive commentary, from nbc to the ny times...

despite the fact that awareness of the shooter's total lack of connection to anything normal was profusely available and apparent per the assassin's own actions and words repeatedly posted on youtube and the social network, college records, interviews of those who came in contact with him...

exactly one week later, a surviving victim of the lonely assassin, after NAMING beck and palin and rush and angle as the individuals whom HE held responsible for his wounding, threatens to KILL a local figurehead of the movement called out as CONSPIRATORS by the likes of krugman, kos, chris matthews and the VOICE OF LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT, sheriff dupnik...

there's no doubt about it

sarah palin and her reprobate pals are CULPABLE for inspiring to bloodshed with their "heated rhetoric" this 22 year old 12 time loser who, for all anyone knows, never even heard of her

and the times and the sheriff, et al, are completely cleanhanded when it comes to this mr fuller threatening to murder a man the local sheriff and the most noteworthy names in the msm pointed out as the kind of person ultimately responsible for the tragedy

because, after all, both sides do it

hate on, homies
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Exactly!

No cries of MSNBC made him do it, no naming leftists who are anti Palin, anti Beck, Limbaugh and so on.

These people aren't just hypocrites, they're simple-minded hypocrites of the first order and are ruining public discourse everywhere.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
It's common and understandable for actual victims of such horrific events to act on uncontrollable emotions. PTSD is a serious mental issue - someone suffering from it NEEDS serious medical attention because, no, they are not 100% in control of theirselves or thinking rationally.

Rape victims and victims of continual abuse who strike back at their assailants are a perfect example of why post-trauma intervention is vital to them leading a normal life.

Yet for a victim of continual abuse or rape - actually striking back at their supposed assailant is a reasonable and understandable defense. Does anyone judge them FOR their reaction? In quite a few cases the anser is no.

I feel that Fuller as being no different than the many other situations of the same ilk.

He is having issues - he needs help - and I'm not going to judge him for what he's suffering through at all. It is not his fault. Blaming victims for their responses and reactions is why many victims of various crimes DON'T come forward.
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The problem is that he wasn't attacking the actual assailent. Often victims of abuse become abusers themselves for the very fact that they could not fight back agains the actual abuser. They still get put in jail and rightly so.
 
jambalaya said:
The problem is that he wasn't attacking the actual assailent. Often victims of abuse become abusers themselves for the very fact that they could not fight back agains the actual abuser. They still get put in jail and rightly so.
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The traditional use of the term "victim of abuse" suggests abuse over a period of time, not an adult injured by a lone gunman.

This guy responded with death threats, and it was obviously the fault of Keith Olberman and Nancy Pelosi.
 
wall to wall headline news, per every leading msm source in america: sarah palin uses the same maps and metaphors politicians of all stripes have been using since this nation began, contributing to atmosphere of heated rhetoric responsible for mass shooting

NOT news (except for fox and the ny post):

James Eric Fuller, 63, who was shot in the knee, had told The Post on Friday, the day before his arrest, that top Republican figures should be tortured -- and their ears severed.

"There would be torture and then an ear necklace, with Michele Bachmann and Sarah Palin's ears toward the end, because they're small, female ears, and then Limbaugh, Hannity and the biggest ears of all, Cheney's, in the center," Fuller said.
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Tucson Shooting Victim: 'There Would Be Torture and Then an Ear Necklace...' - Sarah Palin - Fox Nation

because, once again, both sides do it

ashamed yet?
 
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