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AZ shooting victim arrested for making death threats against Tea Party leader

Im sorry...you know that how exactly? And what exactly is the source of his initial PTSD? And how is his alleged PTSD experience and treatment relational too his obvious partisan bias and outbursts which have NOTHING to do with what actually occured? Sorry...it just doesnt synch. 1 = 1 has to equal '2'...not 'truck.' Where is his attempts to avoid the tramua? Hell, this cat is looking for opportunities to engage.

He cannot avoid the trauma... the trauma was thrust upon him when he was in the shooting in Tuscan. This was the trigger. Even if he HADN'T had PTSD before, a scenario like that could have certainly caused it. His partisanship is irrelevant... it never caused him to make death threats before in the way that he did. This was a response to emotional trauma. And, as I said, that does not excuse his behavior nor absolves him from consequences. I have said this repeatedly. Failure to see that demonstrates an agenda.
 
I can't believe that you actually think I'm making excuses for him. I'm not. I'm explaining his behavior. He should receive treatment AND consequences commenserate with his behavior.

IOW, you're making excuses. I don't recall you, "explaining his behavior", when talking about Loughner.

had Fuller not granted an interview with Amy Goodman, specifically accusing Palin, Beck and Angle for the Safeway Shooting, you might have a case, but...
 
Make me wonder why you are ignoring consistency. I, for one, am being consistent. Both men were motivated by mental illness. Both men's mental illness, meeting with their extreme political views combined to cause their reactions. Both men's mental illness helps explain their behaviors. Both men are responsible for their behaviors regardless of their mental illness and should receive consequences in accordance with what they did. This is consistency. Like I said... anyone who doesn't see this has their own agenda and has no objectivity.
How objective are you being in ignoring that the guy already had it in for the T party. Couldn't that, at least, suggest something other than PTSD was at work here?
 
IOW, you're making excuses. I don't recall you, "explaining his behavior", when talking about Loughner.

had Fuller not granted an interview with Amy Goodman, specifically accusing Palin, Beck and Angle for the Safeway Shooting, you might have a case, but...

Explaining Loughner's behavior? That's all anyone did except for the few who jumped to conclusions.

Almost EVERYONE said "that guy was obviously ****ing crazy and no one did anything about it, damnit!" and "if Dupnik had really done his job this would have been prevented!" - see, he needed to have been committed a long damn time ago.

And so Fuller is obviously heading that way - and here we are trying to do something about it - but you're not supporting what does HAVE to be done.

Why do you think that just putting him in jail and jail alone will keep him from harming someone when he gets out?
 
IOW, you're making excuses. I don't recall you, "explaining his behavior", when talking about Loughner.

Perhaps you don't recall, but I have been clear that it was mental illness NOT political position that motivated Loughner's behavior. If you'd like, I'll go find some posts where I said that. I think anyone rational understands that.

had Fuller not granted an interview with Amy Goodman, specifically accusing Palin, Beck and Angle for the Safeway Shooting, you might have a case, but...

Again, whether or not he gave an interview has little to do with his mental state at the moment that he made his death threats. Issues like this can build.
 
I dont know about sticking up for him, but they have certainly created for him a built in defense. Its not his fault...he was cwaaaaaazy! And how could he not be with this constant climate of hatred...like...well...like what this Fuller cat is spewing...

Maybe they are sticking up for him because they know exactly how it feels to hate conservatives, Beck, Palin, Rush Limbaugh and the tea party, like he did.
 
How objective are you being in ignoring that the guy already had it in for the T party. Couldn't that, at least, suggest something other than PTSD was at work here?

Read my posts without blinders on. I am not making excuses for his behavior. His partisan hackery combined with the mental illness to propel him to the targets that he made the threats against. If he had been a militant rightwing hack, he would have chosen different targets. The fact that he hated the Tea Party gave him direction, but the mental illness fueled the behavior. And again, this does not excuse what he did or absolve him from consequences.
 
Maybe they are sticking up for him because they know exactly how it feels to hate conservatives, Beck, Palin, Rush Limbaugh and the tea party, like he did.

Or, maybe this is another erroneous statement from you.
 
Read my posts without blinders on. I am not making excuses for his behavior. His partisan hackery combined with the mental illness to propel him to the targets that he made the threats against. If he had been a militant rightwing hack, he would have chosen different targets. The fact that he hated the Tea Party gave him direction, but the mental illness fueled the behavior. And again, this does not excuse what he did or absolve him from consequences.
You know more about PTSD than I do. I thought, for somebody to act out on it, there needs to be some triggering event. Is that not the case? I ask because I'm wondering what, at that rally, would have triggered his PTSD.
 
Or, maybe this is another erroneous statement from you.

I'm not referring to you. I don't think you hate conservatives or the others I mentioned. Aunt Spiker, same for you.
I should have thought before I posted. There are quite a few on DP that do hate Beck/Palin/Rush etc. with a passion.
 
You know more about PTSD than I do. I thought, for somebody to act out on it, there needs to be some triggering event. Is that not the case? I ask because I'm wondering what, at that rally, would have triggered his PTSD.

Getting shot might have helped.
PTSD isn't something that's only there for the few minutes after the event and everything's dandy afterwards.
 
I'm not referring to you. I don't think you hate conservatives or the others I mentioned. Aunt Spiker, same for you.
I should have thought before I posted. There are quite a few on DP that do hate Beck/Palin/Rush etc. with a passion.

OK, this I agree with. There are certainly those at DP who hate those folks. I may not like what they say or what they stand for at times, but hate? That's ridiculous.
 
You know more about PTSD than I do. I thought, for somebody to act out on it, there needs to be some triggering event. Is that not the case? I ask because I'm wondering what, at that rally, would have triggered his PTSD.

PTSD reactions that are negative or obvious don't always happen immediately in response to a situation. PTSD is complicated because, unlike shell shock, the symptoms can vary person to person. Some who have it can't sleep well at night. Others have night terrors. Some have adjustment issues in social settings. Some relapses are severe, some are not.

It's like a hodge podge of symptoms - and that makes it hard to treat. But treatment and a close-eye on those with it is essential because many with PTSD are more likely to hurt theirselves (suicide, cutting, dangerous behavior) and more likely to lose control over their emotions (anger, fear, sadness).

This doesn't apply to everyone - there's no one set of defined perameters that anyone fits into. It's just not a very simple thing.

Some can handle it with some light therapy and support. But for some people it's extremely severe - these people tend to be more likely to take their anger and problems out on others (like what Fuller seems to be doing - but I might be wrong).

Have you ever heard someone with a chronic illness or pain say "I have good days and I have bad days" - well that's how PTSD is for many. Sometimes they're fine. Maybe for a few days or weeks - maybe even months or years. And the things that trigger relapse might be serious (such as being shot) or far less serious (stress at work).
 
Getting shot might have helped.
PTSD isn't something that's only there for the few minutes after the event and everything's dandy afterwards.
Why go to the rally in the first place? Was that the PTSD too?
 
You know more about PTSD than I do. I thought, for somebody to act out on it, there needs to be some triggering event. Is that not the case? I ask because I'm wondering what, at that rally, would have triggered his PTSD.

The shooting was the triggering event. Wikipedia's article on PTSD is excellent. I encourage you to read it to learn more about it. Here are some highlights:

PTSD is believed to be caused by either physical trauma or psychological trauma, or more frequently a combination of both. According to Atkinson et al. (2000)[citation needed] PTSD is more likely to be caused by physical or psychological trauma caused by humans such as rape, war or terrorist attack than trauma caused by natural disasters. Possible sources of trauma include experiencing or witnessing childhood or adult physical, emotional or sexual abuse. In addition, experiencing or witnessing an event perceived as life-threatening such as physical assault, adult experiences of sexual assault, accidents, drug addiction, illnesses, medical complications, or employment in occupations exposed to war (such as soldiers) or disaster (such as emergency service workers).[citation needed]

Physical trauma and psychological trauma, more often caused by terrorist attacks than natural disasters. Experiencing or witnessing an event perceived as life threatening.

One of the criterion:

This must have involved both (a) loss of "physical integrity", or risk of serious injury or death, to self or others, and (b) a response to the event that involved intense fear, horror or helplessness.

The shooting would be consistent with that.

Another criterion. Note what I place in bold:

One or more of these must be present in the victim: flashback memories, recurring distressing dreams, subjective re-experiencing of the traumatic event(s), or intense negative psychological or physiological response to any objective or subjective reminder of the traumatic event(s).

This is what happened to him at that meeting. Because of his partisanship and PTSD, he had an intense negative response to Tea Partiers. Hence, the trigger of the fear and his reaction to the fear.

Doesn't excuse his behavior. Any appropriate consequences should be levied. All it does is explain it.

Link used in this post:

Posttraumatic stress disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
I would think that you know that many PTSD sufferers are not completely debilitated. Many can function just like anyone else, for the most part. However, if an incident then triggers some symptom or issue that is complicated by their PTSD, the issue can get worse because of this triggering. His behavior is CERTAINLY different. He has never threatened any member of the Tea Party before. Undoubtedly, his over the top reaction was due to the triggering of his PTSD.

Sometimes. I treat plenty with PTSD. From what I see, he was triggered, causing some of this extreme behavior. But again, this does not EXCUSE it. It only EXPLAINS it. I have said this repeatedly. Anyone who does not hear me say this has their own agenda.

Dont know the history of the guy...this article indicates he pretty much is what he is what he has been...a partisan hack. Im still not seeing ANYTHING indicative of PTSD. Not before. Not after. Point of fact his behaviors since are decidedly NOT in line with a PTSD sufferer. His comments to the interviewer earlier in the week were "Ive never experienced trauma like this." I'll reserve judgement...but everything about him indicates bitter, angry, pissed off little person.
 
Why go to the rally in the first place? Was that the PTSD too?

Good question. No idea. He may not have been aware that it would be that triggering. He many have already been in a psychologically ill state.
 
Dont know the history of the guy...this article indicates he pretty much is what he is what he has been...a partisan hack. Im still not seeing ANYTHING indicative of PTSD. Not before. Not after. Point of fact his behaviors since are decidedly NOT in line with a PTSD sufferer. His comments to the interviewer earlier in the week were "Ive never experienced trauma like this." I'll reserve judgement...but everything about him indicates bitter, angry, pissed off little person.

I disagree. Everything that he did indicated a bitter, angry person with PTSD who's behavior at the meeting was behavior he had not exhibited before.
 
He cannot avoid the trauma... the trauma was thrust upon him when he was in the shooting in Tuscan. This was the trigger. Even if he HADN'T had PTSD before, a scenario like that could have certainly caused it. His partisanship is irrelevant... it never caused him to make death threats before in the way that he did. This was a response to emotional trauma. And, as I said, that does not excuse his behavior nor absolves him from consequences. I have said this repeatedly. Failure to see that demonstrates an agenda.

Come on Cap...lets assume he HAD PTSD from some past trauma incident. Do you honestgly believe his behaviors are in any way typical of a PTSD victim? His traumatic event CAUSED him to persist in his hatred of the Tea Party and Sarah Palin without regard to what he must SURELY know has been proven to be falsely directed? Instead of AVAOIDING traumatic incident he ENGAGES? He seeks OUT highly stressful situations? He engages in the same kind of politically charged behaviors he engaged in prior to the event.

Example-Soldier is a POS before he joins the military. Crappy life, no values, kind of a turd to be blunt. Gets sent to Afghanistan. Loses a few friends but is never in a firefight. Returns home. Steps back into the same crappy life. Beats his wife. Oh look...he has PTSD. Its not his fault. Story does NOT have a happy ending. PTSD? Of COURSE not.

Sorry...not seeing it as anything but an excuse. I'll allow for the possibility we are missing something important from his past...but...
 
I disagree. Everything that he did indicated a bitter, angry person with PTSD who's behavior at the meeting was behavior he had not exhibited before.

PTSD in response to the shooting? Seriously? Going out of his way to ENGAGE in stressful situations? Seeking them? I know people respond to stressful situations differently. Id even buy ASD...but not PTSD. Again...not unless we are missing something major from his past and even then...his behaviors SINCE the traumatic event are MOST UN-PTSD like.
 
Come on Cap...lets assume he HAD PTSD from some past trauma incident. Do you honestgly believe his behaviors are in any way typical of a PTSD victim? His traumatic event CAUSED him to persist in his hatred of the Tea Party and Sarah Palin without regard to what he must SURELY know has been proven to be falsely directed? Instead of AVAOIDING traumatic incident he ENGAGES? He seeks OUT highly stressful situations? He engages in the same kind of politically charged behaviors he engaged in prior to the event.

Example-Soldier is a POS before he joins the military. Crappy life, no values, kind of a turd to be blunt. Gets sent to Afghanistan. Loses a few friends but is never in a firefight. Returns home. Steps back into the same crappy life. Beats his wife. Oh look...he has PTSD. Its not his fault. Story does NOT have a happy ending. PTSD? Of COURSE not.

Sorry...not seeing it as anything but an excuse. I'll allow for the possibility we are missing something important from his past...but...

You are forgetting the triggering event. THE SHOOTING. His partisan hackery was completely independent of this UNTIL THE SHOOTING. It wasn't PTSD that caused him to hate the Tea Party of Sarah Palin. That was all him. However, the shooting triggered the PTSD. His hackery dictated who the targets would be. His PTSD dictated how he would behave. HOW he expressed his feelings towards the Tea Party and Palin is the behavioral change.

And AGAIN, you are ignoring the fact that I am not making excuses and have CONSISTENTLY said that he deserves the appropriate consequences. All I am doing is explaining the behavior. I am not sure why you are ignoring this important point. How about telling us why?
 
PTSD in response to the shooting? Seriously? Going out of his way to ENGAGE in stressful situations? Seeking them? I know people respond to stressful situations differently. Id even buy ASD...but not PTSD. Again...not unless we are missing something major from his past and even then...his behaviors SINCE the traumatic event are MOST UN-PTSD like.

Remember, his behavior prior to the event were consistent with his behaviors after the event, based on his partisanship. Everyone does respond to situations such as these differently. He acted as he did in the past, but the added stress from the shooting trigged the additional behaviors.

And remember, though the symptoms that you mention are consistent with the diagnosis of PTSD, so are the ones that I mentioned, as are an increased arousal state, including increased anger. Everyone responds differently. This is how he responded.
 
You are forgetting the triggering event. THE SHOOTING. His partisan hackery was completely independent of this UNTIL THE SHOOTING. It wasn't PTSD that caused him to hate the Tea Party of Sarah Palin. That was all him. However, the shooting triggered the PTSD. His hackery dictated who the targets would be. His PTSD dictated how he would behave. HOW he expressed his feelings towards the Tea Party and Palin is the behavioral change.

And AGAIN, you are ignoring the fact that I am not making excuses and have CONSISTENTLY said that he deserves the appropriate consequences. All I am doing is explaining the behavior. I am not sure why you are ignoring this important point. How about telling us why?

Im not forgetting it. Im accepting it as a possible cause of ASD. Or simply a mood disorder. But the reality is his behaviors today are consistent with his hyperpartisan behaviors prior to the event. Yes. He suffered a traumatic event. Still no indication of PTSD. If it was from the shooting Saturday it doesnt even meet criteria of duration avoidance, or impairment. 3 out of 6?
 
You are forgetting the triggering event. THE SHOOTING. His partisan hackery was completely independent of this UNTIL THE SHOOTING. It wasn't PTSD that caused him to hate the Tea Party of Sarah Palin. That was all him. However, the shooting triggered the PTSD. His hackery dictated who the targets would be. His PTSD dictated how he would behave. HOW he expressed his feelings towards the Tea Party and Palin is the behavioral change.

And AGAIN, you are ignoring the fact that I am not making excuses and have CONSISTENTLY said that he deserves the appropriate consequences. All I am doing is explaining the behavior. I am not sure why you are ignoring this important point. How about telling us why?
I guess I would like to know if you think he should be punished in just the same way as someone who couldn't claim PTSD.
 
I guess I would like to know if you think he should be punished in just the same way as someone who couldn't claim PTSD.

With whatever consequences are appropriate for his actions. Absolutely. He should receive treatment, also.
 
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