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AZ shooting victim arrested for making death threats against Tea Party leader

VanceMack said:
Unless you are also 'IAMITTER' I have to admit that I have no idea what your comments are or were. I read the OP...a few comments on page 3 of posts, some on page 5, a few on page 11, then skipped to the end. Wasnt addressing you. What I have seen from your comments on other threads pretty much mirror mine...that there is one individual that is responsible for the actions on 8 January. That BOTH sides have used vitriol and rhetoric. And regardless of incident, Fuller is not in any way shape or form justified in venting his own personal hatred against a Tea Party member or ANYONE other than the shooter.

My personal opinion...the shooter was unhinged (NOT mentally ill) from years of low self esteem, probably a bit spoiled, and a major asshole to boot. Certainly he is responsible for his own actiuons. Mr Fuller sounds to me like he is a politically motivated partisan hack that is using a very personal tragedy to promote his own version of hatred. Even when the facts were known about the lack of right wing influence on Loughner he CONTINUES to spew his own venom and hate filled rhetoric. Thats not PTSD...thats him being a major asshole as well. Sounds to me like he got out of his little public display exactly what he wanted.
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I disagree. Fuller was already diagnosed with PTSD. The shooting incident obviously worsened it. It was certainly a PTSD reaction that he had. Doesn't excuse it. Only explains it.
 
Re: Shooting Victim Threatens Tea Partier

Aunt Spiker said:
From what I've read you have little sympathy for anyone suffering from any sort of a mental issue.
You expect everyone - no matter what - to react reasonably in every situation.

But that's not how things work.
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Did you see the video that was linked earlier of his interview the day before the threats? Not the words of someone mentally ill; rather, the words of someone who is so biased politically, he likely takes everything Keith Olberman says as gospel...
 
Re: Shooting Victim Threatens Tea Partier

haymarket said:
CONGRESS CRITTER!?!?!?!?!?

Why do you insist on this over the top hyperbolic expression labeling human beings as animals?
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Oh. give me a break... how many times have people said "congress critter" on here and elsewhere without comment... why not actually tackle the problem...
 
Re: Shooting Victim Threatens Tea Partier

Barbbtx said:
Please show where I claimed that other than claiming he just as likely could be a lefty as a righty. Yes, I may have given examples like the Communist Manifesto as a retort to accusations of the gold standard making him a righty.
He's neither. And even if he was it shouldn't be blamed on the words of Sarah Palin or Keith Olbermann.
The truth is, the guy is more than likely a schitzophrenic.
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Here you go Barb... from your thread titled "AZ Shooter Jared Loughner a liberal":

Barbbtx said:
This creep is obviously a liberal since he is anti-flag, anti-war, anti- God.

snip...


I'm sure he is a left-wing nut, but he is a nut and only he is to blame.
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Re: Shooting Victim Threatens Tea Partier

To be honest... I am so disguted with these threads since the shooting, I have little faith left in the political discourse... The what must be a record number of thread bans earlier on another thread, the excuse making of the left, and so much else... I have little hope right now for politics in the U.S. if people on this board can't rise above the fray...

I think I will take a break from DP... I am tired of the rhetoric on here.. I really am.... While China rises and uses neo-mercantile policies, Americans are sniping and blaming each other and not looking at the root of the problems... we have the left that can't accept responsibility for its rhetoric, and can't admit when it is wrong, and then excuse a man who makes threats because he allegedly has PTS, when in reality he is a left wing hack...

I am sick of you people... honestly and truly sick...
 
Re: Shooting Victim Threatens Tea Partier

ludahai said:
To be honest... I am so disguted with these threads since the shooting, I have little faith left in the political discourse... The what must be a record number of thread bans earlier on another thread, the excuse making of the left, and so much else... I have little hope right now for politics in the U.S. if people on this board can't rise above the fray...

I think I will take a break from DP... I am tired of the rhetoric on here.. I really am.... While China rises and uses neo-mercantile policies, Americans are sniping and blaming each other and not looking at the root of the problems... we have the left that can't accept responsibility for its rhetoric, and can't admit when it is wrong, and then excuse a man who makes threats because he allegedly has PTS, when in reality he is a left wing hack...

I am sick of you people... honestly and truly sick...
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I think a lot of the people at DP are sick of the rhetoric, here. I know I am. However, IMO, it takes intelligent, assertive people, willing to confront the hacks at DP to put a stop to it. You are one of those intelligent, assertive people who can help to do that. Yesterday, in this very thread, Zyph and I confronted hacks and demonstrated the absolute silliness and stupidity of their positions. We need more of that... from folks like you.

Please don't leave DP.
 
Re: Shooting Victim Threatens Tea Partier

ludahai said:
Did you see the video that was linked earlier of his interview the day before the threats? Not the words of someone mentally ill; rather, the words of someone who is so biased politically, he likely takes everything Keith Olberman says as gospel...
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Dr Ludahai I presume?
You're not a doctor - only a doctor well practice in this field can make THAT call.

How it works:

Said 'mental' person is taken in - they are mentally evaluated and a doctor deems what mental condition they are in.
If it's not cut and dry - then a more indepth investigation ensues and a doctor examines all new evidence (things done the day of - before, etc etc) to determine whether said individual had a 'sound mind' and so on.

The doctor gives recommendations for the person's treatment - and that is compiled with other evidence if said person goes to trial.

The judge and jury considers all the evidence (the legal issues, the facts, the opinons of the medical-examiner, etc) and they then plug that in when they draw their conclusion.

No one knows the outcome of this.
But to suggest that the basic medical evaluation should be skipped is silly - and not proper legal procedure.

I think everyone still doesn't understand that being locked up as a 'mental patient' means you're in prison - but it's in a psych-ward :shrug: Your day is more heavily regulated and your environment more strictly controlled and monitored. You won't be bailed out because you are THERE having been deemed UNSTABLE. You won't be leaving unless you ARE stable - some people live their entire lives in a mental war or institution when, if they were in a regular prison, they would have been let loose years earlier.

It's MORE strict and uniformed than prison - not LESS.
 
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Re: Shooting Victim Threatens Tea Partier

CaptainCourtesy said:
I think a lot of the people at DP are sick of the rhetoric, here. I know I am. However, IMO, it takes intelligent, assertive people, willing to confront the hacks at DP to put a stop to it. You are one of those intelligent, assertive people who can help to do that. Yesterday, in this very thread, Zyph and I confronted hacks and demonstrated the absolute silliness and stupidity of their positions. We need more of that... from folks like you.

Please don't leave DP.
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I think you got something completely different from that post than I did.
 
Re: Shooting Victim Threatens Tea Partier

X Factor said:
I think you got something completely different from that post than I did.
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Probably. I understand that his position is, as I would call it, "slanted", but look at what he is saying in a non-partisan way. It makes a lot of sense.
 
Re: Shooting Victim Threatens Tea Partier

CaptainCourtesy said:
Here you go Barb... from your thread titled "AZ Shooter Jared Loughner a liberal":
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Thanks but no thanks. You haven't proven anything without showing the context. Was I being sarcastic? Was I posting as a retort to someone calling him a rightwinger?
I told you I probably said things like that, but I'm 99% sure I never tried to really portray him as a liberal, because it's been obvious from the beginning that he is neither right nor left.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
I disagree. Fuller was already diagnosed with PTSD. The shooting incident obviously worsened it. It was certainly a PTSD reaction that he had. Doesn't excuse it. Only explains it.
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Que? Hogwash. PTSD??? He voluntarily went to the town hall meeting. The reports state he boo'd and hissed throughout it. He wasnt triggered by anything done or said at the town hall meeting. His behaviors during the interviews on the previous day indicated his mindset and bias. He is an admitted political activist and obviously biased.
 
Re: Shooting Victim Threatens Tea Partier

ludahai said:
...I am tired of the rhetoric on here.. I really am.... While China rises and uses neo-mercantile policies, Americans are sniping and blaming each other and not looking at the root of the problems...
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American Leftists see American Conservatives as an existential threat. American Conservatives see American Leftists as an existential threat. Neither side sees China as an existential threat.

The conflict between the American Left and Right will have to be allowed to play itself out and the consequences be damned. One side must win and the other side must lose before the country can act effectively with respect to any foreign threat.
 
VanceMack said:
Que? Hogwash. PTSD??? He voluntarily went to the town hall meeting. The reports state he boo'd and hissed throughout it. He wasnt triggered by anything done or said at the town hall meeting. His behaviors during the interviews on the previous day indicated his mindset and bias. He is an admitted political activist and obviously biased.
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I think CC is saying he was suffering from PTSD even before shooting. I read that he had it from his time in the military.
Not excusing him in anyway, but that's what I read. I just hope they don't let him loose until they're sure he's no danger to anyone.
 
Re: Shooting Victim Threatens Tea Partier

Albert Di Salvo said:
American Leftists see American Conservatives as an existential threat. American Conservatives see American Leftists as an existential threat. Neither side sees China as an existential threat.

The conflict between the American Left and Right will have to be allowed to play itself out and the consequences be damned. One side must win and the other side must lose before the country can act effectively with respect to any foreign threat.
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Anyone hear that the two parties are going to sit together for the State of the Union Address. I know that's only symbolic, but it's a good thing in my opinion.
That doesn't mean I don't think political discourse is a healthy thing, because I do. I also think our leaders in Congress could be a little more civil with each other.
 
Barbbtx said:
I think CC is saying he was suffering from PTSD even before shooting. I read that he had it from his time in the military.
Not excusing him in anyway, but that's what I read. I just hope they don't let him loose until they're sure he's no danger to anyone.
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Regardless...nothing in the week following the shooting nor the town hall meeting can be attributed to PTSD. He has been very specific in the targets of his anger and they have nothing to do with his past, his shooting, his outburst, but will more than likely be used as an excuse. Every indicator that I have read, article that I have seen and interview from him has demonstrated a bitter, angry, pissed off guy that is commited to his hatred and blame of the wrong people.
 
Re: Shooting Victim Threatens Tea Partier

Albert Di Salvo said:
American Leftists see American Conservatives as an existential threat. American Conservatives see American Leftists as an existential threat. Neither side sees China as an existential threat.

The conflict between the American Left and Right will have to be allowed to play itself out and the consequences be damned. One side must win and the other side must lose before the country can act effectively with respect to any foreign threat.
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I don't think any 'side' ever really wins. Our political cycle clearly reflects that. One side wins on promises, doesn't honor those promises, other side gets elected, doesn't honor their promises, first side comes back, etc, etc.
 
Re: Shooting Victim Threatens Tea Partier

Barbbtx said:
Anyone hear that the two parties are going to sit together for the State of the Union Address. I know that's only symbolic, but it's a good thing in my opinion.
That doesn't mean I don't think political discourse is a healthy thing, because I do. I also think our leaders in Congress could be a little more civil with each other.
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Wow, really? That's very interesting. It probably is only symbolic, but it might reinvigorate some confidence into the political system from the public. Little things like these add up.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Sweet Jerry - read all my other posts - especially my most recent.

If he was in a therapist's office or a support group he could say whatever he wanted to. Getting angry at a victim when they're angry isn't going to diffuse the situation. that doesn't make his threat excusable - but it give precedent to intervene and sequester him for observation and clinical intervention.

But, no, I still don't think less of him - he's just struggling to deal with happened to him, that's all. If I had my way - he'd get help and get better. If everyone else had their way he'd just be a walking time bomb.

Somehow people think that him serving a little bit of jail time would FIX him - in fact - I think it would make him WORSE because not only would be blame the shooting on the Tea Party or whoever - he'd blame his prison time on them, too.
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When you threaten the life of a government official, you're the perp, not the victim.

I hope this piece of **** gets life.

Let him keep blaming people, eventually he'll probably mouth off to the wrong person and get shot again. Hopefully that criminal will have better aim.
 
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Jerry said:
Let him keep blaming people, eventually he'll probably mouth off to the wrong person and get shot again. Hopefully that criminal will have better aim.
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...
That's an awful mindset. Are you for real?
 
iamitter said:
...
That's an awful mindset. Are you for real?
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Fo rizzle dawg, yuuuaaah.

Oh you got shot, fine, file a suit, call the shooter every name in the book, hell I'll help you.

Go full retard and start threatening the lives of people who had nothing to do with it, **** you you're the piece of **** now.


("you" as in the retard, not iamitter)
 
Jerry said:
When you threaten the life of a government official, you're the perp, not the victim.

I hope this piece of **** gets life.

Let him keep blaming people, eventually he'll probably mouth off to the wrong person and get shot again. Hopefully that criminal will have better aim.
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Ah - unless the person is really ****edi n the head there is NO life sentence for merely threatening to kill someone.

It just doesn't work that way - we have set sentences for certain crimes. "life" is not given out like candy at a parade.
 
Re: Shooting Victim Threatens Tea Partier

Barbbtx said:
Thanks but no thanks. You haven't proven anything without showing the context. Was I being sarcastic? Was I posting as a retort to someone calling him a rightwinger?
I told you I probably said things like that, but I'm 99% sure I never tried to really portray him as a liberal, because it's been obvious from the beginning that he is neither right nor left.
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You started a thread with that title. You made those comments. Are you now claiming that you were being sarcastic? So, you used inflamatory language as a retort? As I have been saying THAT is part of the problem.
 
VanceMack said:
Que? Hogwash. PTSD??? He voluntarily went to the town hall meeting. The reports state he boo'd and hissed throughout it. He wasnt triggered by anything done or said at the town hall meeting. His behaviors during the interviews on the previous day indicated his mindset and bias. He is an admitted political activist and obviously biased.
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And all that is irrelevant to the fact that he suffers from PTSD and the shooting undoubtedly worsened the condition.
 
VanceMack said:
Regardless...nothing in the week following the shooting nor the town hall meeting can be attributed to PTSD. He has been very specific in the targets of his anger and they have nothing to do with his past, his shooting, his outburst, but will more than likely be used as an excuse. Every indicator that I have read, article that I have seen and interview from him has demonstrated a bitter, angry, pissed off guy that is commited to his hatred and blame of the wrong people.
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Again. Irrelevant. His PTSD triggered his intense and outrageous reaction. Similar to the fact that the shooter's mental illness created his intense and outrageous behavior. It doesn't excuse it. But it does explain it.
 
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