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Home price drops exceed Great Depression: Zillow

MaggieD said:
The way this debacle is being handled shows why BUSINESSmen need to have a voice in Congress and in the White House. Mortgage Modification my lily white ass.

A home was purchased 4 years ago for $200,000. The lender let the buyer get into the house with 0-3% down. Now that house's worth $150,000. Let the current owner default on the $200K and re-mortgage $150K at today's interest rates!!!!

Nah. That makes too much sense. Sooooo, they foreclose on the property...the current owners live rent/mortgage free for 12-18 months; bank gets nothing; then they strip the house and half-destroy it when they move. THEN the bank puts $5-$10K into the house getting it ready for sale and it still only gets $150K for the house. Stooooopid!!!
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two problems with that maggie, first of all 'the bank' doesn't own most mortgages in this country. most of them are wrapped up as various types of cdo's. nearly all of which have been shifted and sold to pension funds and gse's and the fed, which means you and i will pay for them as some point. while it is true that banks tend to be the servicers of most of this debt, and therefore they're the one's doing the foreclosures, that doesn't mean they own the debt. this is why bank of america just paid the gse's $1.8Billion to settle the garbage loans that have been foreclosed on that bank of america took on after it bought countrywide for pennies on the dollar at the government's urging. many see the acceptance of this settlement as a defacto bailout for bank of america since the future losses on this debt is likely to be much much higher than $1.8 billion.

the second problem is that the only reason they got away with all this fraud at yours and my expense, is because the BUSINESSmen have the ONLY voice in congress. they tell congress what to do, your congressman tells you why it's what's best for you.
 
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MaggieD said:
If your home is worth the same as it was four years ago, you're the ONLY person in the United States who hasn't lost equity in this market. The only one!! I'd say you're living a pipedream. But if it makes you happy...
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yeah, i keep seeing him say that, and i still don't believe it. try it a few more times maybe it'll work.

the white house has dropped 25% in value, and don't blame on the fact that black people moved in, i don't think that has much to do with it.
 
Zyroh said:
two problems with that maggie, first of all 'the bank' doesn't own most mortgages in this country. most of them are wrapped up as various types of cdo's. nearly all of which have been shifted and sold to pension funds and gse's and the fed, which means you and i will pay for them as some point. while it is true that banks tend to be the servicers of most of this debt, and therefore they're the one's doing the foreclosures, that doesn't mean they own the debt. this is why bank of america just paid the gse's $1.8Billion to settle the garbage loans that have been foreclosed on that bank of america took on after it bought countrywide for pennies on the dollar at the government's urging. many see the acceptance of this settlement as a defacto bailout for bank of america since the future losses on this debt is likely to be much much higher than $1.8 billion.

the second problem is that the only reason they got away with all this fraud at yours and my expense, is because the BUSINESSmen have the ONLY voice in congress. they tell congress what to do, your congressman tells you why it's what's best for you.
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Maybe the reason they can't is because they can't even unravel who owns what mortgage. The financial end of it makes sense no matter who owns it. Keep the homeowner in the home.

Re your last statement. Love it! But just maybe we need them there so that the foxes will be overseeing the foxes. ;-)
 
Aunt Spiker said:
You know what - this is my general view on the housing market:

Home production increased.
Ergo - the cost of homes should have dropped - but it didn't it steadily increased. Sometimes faster than other times - but it increased for many years.
Why did it increase?

Why is it not like all other products in which an increased SUPPLY and an increased DEMAND lowers the cost?
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Because credit kept getting easier and easier to be given out so loaning institutions would have more people indebted to them for greater amounts.
 
PeteEU said:
Never claimed I was. But any idiot can see what went wrong in the US, Ireland, UK, Spain and many other places.

People were warning about the housing bubble for years and years but no one did anything about it because the banks and financial institutions were earning trillions on selling and reselling financial products that had the US mortgage market at its core. And as long as the housing market was going up up and up then there was no reason to pull the brake because people were greedy and getting rich.

When reality finally settled back into the US housing market and prices started to fall and banks realized that more and more of the financial assets they had been peddling to people around the world and making a killing off.. were in fact worthless, then you had the start of the financial crisis.

It does not take any "expertise" to understand when a large number of home owners for a decade plus re-mortgaged and re-mortgaged because their homes value went up and up and up, and then used that extra income to consume and driving the US economy.. that when the value of the homes suddenly goes down (a lot even), then you have a lot of people sitting in homes that are worth less than the mortgage they have taken out in it.

This intern means the banks have to start taking losses and when the snowball effects starts, then welcome to the financial crisis. This in tern again drives prices even more down since the market has become a buyers market not a sellers.. and if buyers cant get loans or are insecure about the future, then sellers are forced to lower prices even more and so on and so on. Add to the fact many loose their homes because of the crisis, and suddenly the market is flooded with homes for sale... which again drives prices down.. that is of course unless banks sit on homes and waiting for better times, which banks do. This of course is also dangerous as hell because when prices finally do stabilize and even go up, then if the banks start selling off the homes they have been sitting on, then suddenly the supply on the market is flooded yet again (if they are not careful), and that in tern yet again will drive down prices if you are not careful.

At some point the markets will get into a sort of equilibrium yet again, but that can take a considerable amount of time considering the time it took to get the peak in the first place.

And as long as the banks are sitting on hundreds of billions if not trillions of debt that they have no idea what the value is, and there is no incentive by regulators or even the markets to deal with it, then nothing will happen. Home prices can fall another 15% but if the banks wont loan people money to buy, then prices can easily fall even more.

So no amount of tax breaks, special programs from the government or wishful thinking can do anything about the problem since the core of the problem is yet again.... the banks and the last decade plus of excess of greed. Hell unemployment can go to 6% and growth to 5%, but as long as the banks refuse to loan money.. then well.

No there is more hurt on the way, but I believe we are at the start of the end of the tunnel (at least), both in the US and around the world when it comes to housing prices.
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That makes you an expert.
 
MaggieD said:
Maybe the reason they can't is because they can't even unravel who owns what mortgage. The financial end of it makes sense no matter who owns it. Keep the homeowner in the home.

Re your last statement. Love it! But just maybe we need them there so that the foxes will be overseeing the foxes. ;-)
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Maggie, no need to worry. Really.

Look, with the way Obama is spending, and printing money, we just have to churn the presses a little harder, throw in a little more government to sap wealth, kill jobs and we can enjoy a nice bout of inflation, then BINGO! Your house price will shoot up like a buoy that's been deep under water and cut free! We can call the currency The Reich's Dollar.

American said:
That makes you an expert.
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Aw c'mon... give him credit, it was a lot of typing.

.
 
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Albert Di Salvo said:
Obama's mortgage modification schemes have only prolonged the agony of delinquent borrowers and the real estate market.
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Well at least you didn't say it was the left, but I'm sure that's next. :roll:
 
EnigmaO01 said:
Well at least you didn't say it was the left, but I'm sure that's next. :roll:
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To be fair, the crisis was also the fault of Republicans who cooperated with Leftists. The lesson to be learned is never cooperate with leftists on anything ever.
 
American said:
That makes you an expert.
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It doesn't take an expert to see that the US is in bad shape and on the verge.

It's kinda like you see someone that's 50lbs overweight, starts panting while walking up a slight incline, eating a greasy spoon cheeseburger everyday... it doesn't take an expert to say that if that person doesn't change that a heart attack becomes almost inevitable.
 
Albert Di Salvo said:
To be fair, the crisis was also the fault of Republicans who cooperated with Leftists. The lesson to be learned is never cooperate with leftists on anything ever.
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Now that didn't take long now did it.
 
MaggieD said:
The way this debacle is being handled shows why BUSINESSmen need to have a voice in Congress and in the White House. Mortgage !
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Be careful what you ask for. Our governor of Indiana (Mitch Daniels) is a businessman and is the biggest phoney out there. Now I hear he may run for president. God help us if he wins. He's bragging about freezing property taxes but behind out backs they are upping the assessment of property values for more taxes while the real values plummet. He brags about how important ecucation is while his secretary of Public School Instruction Tony Bennet is against public schools and has commented he doesn't understand why all public schools aren't private. Never mind Tony's wife's job as a school improvement consultant for the Indiana Public Charter Schools Association is a clear conflict of interest.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
You know what - this is my general view on the housing market:

Home production increased.
Ergo - the cost of homes should have dropped - but it didn't it steadily increased. Sometimes faster than other times - but it increased for many years.
Why did it increase?

Why is it not like all other products in which an increased SUPPLY and an increased DEMAND lowers the cost?
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Did I miss reading about the history of price declines.

How much have automobiles dropped in price, or food, or energy, or transportation, or .......

Actually, at least from my reading of recent history, I can't think of anything that has consistently dropped in price except technology products. Would you please enlighten me. Thx.
 
TOJ said:
Did I miss reading about the history of price declines.

How much have automobiles dropped in price, or food, or energy, or transportation, or .......

Actually, at least from my reading of recent history, I can't think of anything that has consistently dropped in price except technology products. Would you please enlighten me. Thx.
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Hmm - touche
 
TOJ said:
Did I miss reading about the history of price declines.
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Nope

How much have automobiles dropped in price
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Relatively over time? A LOT. Once cars was a luxury for the well off, but over time as society became more wealthy, more and more got cars, prices fell and suddenly people start getting two cars. Also cars in the not so distant past were relatively very basic. Now days they have everything from cup holders, electronic windows, CD/DVD/USB satellite radio, smart computers, ABS and so on and so on. Once cars did not even have seat belts, and the price of the car then relative to the average wage vs what it is today... cars are far cheaper now.

or food
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Again.. food today is far cheaper than it was say 50 or even 20 years ago, relative to your income. Not only do you have choice now that people did not have 50 years ago (you try to find a banana in the 1940s), but you can get foods all year around despite much food being seasonal.

or energy
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A limited resource. It will always become more expensive because the resource is being depleted. If anything, energy especially oil was way too cheap for too long, which will make the steep rises we have had and going to have even hurt more since cheap oil means no innovation towards alternative energy sources.

or transportation, or .......
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It has never been cheaper to fly or take trains or even drive. Especially on the air front.. 10 years ago you would never ever have air plane tickets at the prices of today.
 
American said:
There is never anything wrong with less taxes. The govt should always have to justify taking money from citizens, not the other way around.
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They do. And most of it goes into this one big justification called national defense, in which we spend over 50% of discretionary spending.

"About 58 percent of all discretionary funding is defense related." Source

"Military spending consumes more than 50 cents of every dollar of federal government discretionary spending." Source
 
Mr. Invisible said:
They do. And most of it goes into this one big justification called national defense, in which we spend over 50% of discretionary spending.

"About 58 percent of all discretionary funding is defense related." Source

"Military spending consumes more than 50 cents of every dollar of federal government discretionary spending." Source
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Is that presented FOR his point or against it?
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Is that presented FOR his point or against it?
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It is against his point. American said "There is never anything wrong with less taxes. The govt should always have to justify taking money from citizens, not the other way around."

In response to the bolded part I say that the government does justify taking $$$ from citizens and that unfortunately, the majority of it goes to defense.
 
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Mr. Invisible said:
It is against his point. American said "There is never anything wrong with less taxes. The govt should always have to justify taking money from citizens, not the other way around."

In response to the bolded part I say that the government does justify taking $$$ from citizens and that unfortunately, the majority of it goes to defense.
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24% of Federal spending is for defense...just slightly more than for Federal pensions which is 21%. If that isn't an eye-opener, I don't know what is. US Federal Budget Pie Chart for FY11 - Charts
 
MaggieD said:
The way this debacle is being handled shows why BUSINESSmen need to have a voice in Congress and in the White House. Mortgage Modification my lily white ass.
A home was purchased 4 years ago for $200,000. The lender let the buyer get into the house with 0-3% down. Now that house's worth $150,000. Let the current owner default on the $200K and re-mortgage $150K at today's interest rates!!!!

Nah. That makes too much sense. Sooooo, they foreclose on the property...the current owners live rent/mortgage free for 12-18 months; bank gets nothing; then they strip the house and half-destroy it when they move. THEN the bank puts $5-$10K into the house getting it ready for sale and it still only gets $150K for the house. Stooooopid!!!
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Bingo, we have a winner.

What we need in the White House is not just someone that is friendly to business (Bush), and certainly not someone who knows nothing about business (Obama), but someone who UNDERSTANDS business.

I'm not a big Romney guy, but someone like that who has a intimate knowledge of how business works and thrives. Congress, too, is completely bereft of true businessmen.

Problem is, people like Forbes, Romney, Perot, etc, don't do well in elections. As soon as the discussion goes over people's heads, they run to their American Idol candidates.
 
MaggieD said:
The way this debacle is being handled shows why BUSINESSmen need to have a voice in Congress and in the White House. Mortgage Modification my lily white ass.

A home was purchased 4 years ago for $200,000. The lender let the buyer get into the house with 0-3% down. Now that house's worth $150,000. Let the current owner default on the $200K and re-mortgage $150K at today's interest rates!!!!

Nah. That makes too much sense. Sooooo, they foreclose on the property...the current owners live rent/mortgage free for 12-18 months; bank gets nothing; then they strip the house and half-destroy it when they move. THEN the bank puts $5-$10K into the house getting it ready for sale and it still only gets $150K for the house. Stooooopid!!!
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Erod said:
Bingo, we have a winner.

What we need in the White House is not just someone that is friendly to business (Bush), and certainly not someone who knows nothing about business (Obama), but someone who UNDERSTANDS business.

I'm not a big Romney guy, but someone like that who has a intimate knowledge of how business works and thrives. Congress, too, is completely bereft of true businessmen.

Problem is, people like Forbes, Romney, Perot, etc, don't do well in elections. As soon as the discussion goes over people's heads, they run to their American Idol candidates.
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The sounds like it is a good idea, but it would bankrupt the banks

With such a program you would see a large number of strategic defaults on mortgages in order for people to get 25% cut from their debts (I know I would like to be able to do that), so the overall number of people defaulting would increase. The banks of course could not afford to take a 25% cut in the principle on mortgages. That would wipe out their reserves, and cause most to go belly up
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
The sounds like it is a good idea, but it would bankrupt the banks

With such a program you would see a large number of strategic defaults on mortgages in order for people to get 25% cut from their debts (I know I would like to be able to do that), so the overall number of people defaulting would increase. The banks of course could not afford to take a 25% cut in the principle on mortgages. That would wipe out their reserves, and cause most to go belly up
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True, but it's going to happen anyway. These banks will never see that money because they were dumb enough to loan it to people who didn't have the credit history in the first place.

The governmnent should get out of it and let the banks work out whatever they can.
 
BmanMcfly said:
Home price drops exceed Great Depression: Zillow | Reuters



Oh wait a second, I thought the recession was over in 2009...
CBC News - Money - Recession declared officially over

Yet home prices have fallen for 53 consecutive months... that's more then 4 years of straight decline.

So, how long before these prices bottom out and start to stabilize again?? How much more is your mortgage then the value of your house?? How low will the bottom be??

How long before people stop trusting the experts that keep saying 'don't worry, the worst is over'???

What's been the solution? THey are on 'QE2', and there are already rumors of a QE3... which is essentially printing money to cover the day to day expenses. That's about as effective as maxing out both your credit cards, so you get a third card so you can balance the debt with a higher limit... and then having rumors circulating of your plans to get a fourth credit card in the near future.... except worse because it's going out as 'taxpayer covered'...

Does this concern anyone else as it does me?
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I'm glad. Homes were way overpriced. They are actually worth their value now.

More Americans can actually afford to buy decent homes now.
 
justabubba said:
not for the 700,000 families who are able to stay in - and pay off - their homes but for the availability of HAMP
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yeah. too bad we had to screw over the other 299,300,000 Americans to keep them there.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
The sounds like it is a good idea, but it would bankrupt the banks
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There's ALREADY a global venture to bankrupt the biggest banks... and the way this can be done is by taking advantage of the fact that banks resources are typically sold at around 10 TIMES the value they actually possess... in the case of gold and silver, it's closer to 40times. So, through a concerted and continuous effort to buy precious metals it reduces the available supply through which the banks can cover their shorts... but no matter what, the banks that are into this price manipulation are already facing at LEAST a dozen lawsuits worldwide, at least one of them a RICO suit... mostly against JP Morgan and Hongkong Shanghai Bank of Commerce.

It's really beyond the scope of this thread, but there are people that are aiming to take down one of these giant companies... like coke, or in this case the likes of JP Morgan.

With such a program you would see a large number of strategic defaults on mortgages in order for people to get 25% cut from their debts (I know I would like to be able to do that), so the overall number of people defaulting would increase. The banks of course could not afford to take a 25% cut in the principle on mortgages. That would wipe out their reserves, and cause most to go belly up
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The banks might finally collapse under the weight of their own corruption... then we can work on how to replace that afterward. We were never intended to have a central bank in the start... so, it'd probably be a good thing. Hell, 50 different states could have 50 different recognized currencies.

The thing is, that every time the banks are about to go belly up (the banks on the 'inside', not your local credit union or local bank) then Bernanke steps in and says "oh there's going to be martial law if you don't give me a blank check of tax payer money tomorrow, here's a bill I wrote up... but if you don't sign it there will be blood on the streets" (not anything of a direct quote, but the sentiment he uses when he expresses his needs). So, there will be another bailout... but then, well, it starts getting inflationary, then hyper-inflationary as other countries run away from the dollar as world reserve... the SECOND the dollar loses that status, the reality of the debt load will sink in.

I've seen interviews with economists saying that by the numbers, oil could hit 150$ / barrel, gold 1700-2000$ / ounce , silver 50-150$/ounce by the end of the year. This WILL affect your food prices as well... the writing is on the wall, this system CANNOT continue as it is going... and it's going to be a harsh reality when it hits for MANY people.
 
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