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Giffords shooting causes gun sales to skyrocket in Arizona, some buyers looking to st

In the wake of the Arizona shooting, are you more or less in favor of gun ownership?

  • Not sure / no opinion

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • What's a gun?

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    36
Re: Giffords shooting causes gun sales to skyrocket in Arizona, some buyers looking t

Arrested him for what? There was no evidence he had broken the law until he started firing. Nice try at a straw man, but I just burned him to the ground. :mrgreen:

Actually he did break the law the very morning of the shooting:

Loughner Stopped by Police Hours before Shooting - CBS News

Jared Lougher, 22, ran a red light but was let off with a warning at 7:30 a.m. Saturday, the Arizona Game and Fish Department said. The officer took Loughner's driver's license and vehicle registration information but found no outstanding warrants on Loughner or his vehicle.
 
Re: Giffords shooting causes gun sales to skyrocket in Arizona, some buyers looking t

When there are deranged citizens, mass confusion and armed people running around in stressful situations the toll of death will be lower? Are you able to work better when you have heavy metal music blasting into one ear and your wife screaming in the other? If anything all scientific evidence indicates that a human being is more likely to commit a mistake during such a situation.

Perhaps the media should have stuck to the lone nutjob line--for the time being at least--rather than scaring the crap out of people, insisting that poltical rhetoric causes people to commit mass murder? Just sayin'.
 
Re: Giffords shooting causes gun sales to skyrocket in Arizona, some buyers looking t

apdst said:
Perhaps the media should have stuck to the lone nutjob line--for the time being at least--rather than scaring the crap out of people, insisting that poltical rhetoric causes people to commit mass murder? Just sayin'.

I don't know if you've noticed, but the media isn't really interested in reporting truth. In an era of heightened political tensions portraying this as a result of those tensions not only allows them to expand the story enormously past its original attention span but also allows them to go on and on about issues related to their manufactured version of events. It also allows government officials to attack partisanship and spout bipartisanship in a time when they are themselves engaging in the very action they condemn and also issue calls against "political extremism" of all stripes, regardless of its legitimacy. That and of course it also distracts attention from important matters which the American people hear little or nothing about in the mainstream media.
 
Re: Giffords shooting causes gun sales to skyrocket in Arizona, some buyers looking t

No change/same opinion
 
Re: Giffords shooting causes gun sales to skyrocket in Arizona, some buyers looking t

actually as CCW rates have increased accidental shootings have not--indeed non LEO civilians are less likely to miss a criminal than cops and less likely to shoot a friendly than cops

At first sight, that flies in the face of reason. Professionals with regular training and updates are consistently outperformed by novice amateurs?
 
Re: Giffords shooting causes gun sales to skyrocket in Arizona, some buyers looking t

When there are deranged citizens, mass confusion and armed people running around in stressful situations the toll of death will be lower? Are you able to work better when you have heavy metal music blasting into one ear and your wife screaming in the other? If anything all scientific evidence indicates that a human being is more likely to commit a mistake during such a situation.

Certainly with the wife part going on.
 
Re: Giffords shooting causes gun sales to skyrocket in Arizona, some buyers looking t

He ran a red light. Geez, you think people who run red lights should be thrown in jail? LOL.

That was only a half-thanks, because it's you. :lamo
 
Re: Giffords shooting causes gun sales to skyrocket in Arizona, some buyers looking t

At first sight, that flies in the face of reason. Professionals with regular training and updates are consistently outperformed by novice amateurs?

actually, as the head of one of America's premier Firearms training academies noted (and a former head of a major metropolitan county wide swat team) --if you go to the police firing range and select ten officers at random and then go to "targetworld" (a public shooting range in Cincinnati) and pull ten people off the range at random, the latter group will most definetly outshoot the former group and almost always will be better informed about weapons.

the average police officer shoots less than 200 rounds a year. the average gun enthusiast who applies for CCW licenses shoots far more. In 1989 (the year I conducted a study), Cincinnati (which is ranked as one of the top police departments in the country) had 984 officers and that department used about 140K rounds of ammo. Now the training officers who ran firearms qualifications used about 25K of those rounds. CPD officers could shoot anytime they wanted at the Evendale range meaning it is unlikely many were buying their own ammo on the side. 980 officers shot 115,000 rounds. Do the math

When I was shooting on the "action pistol" circuit (IPSC, Steel, Pins) I was shooting 60,000 rounds a year. The people I competed against were shooting between 25K-100K rounds a year. Serious bullseye shooters shot less but spent hours "dry firing". Most hobby shooters shoot 50-100 rounds a week.

Bottom line-very few cops are good shots-the ones who are generally are the training officers or "adjunct" officers. (several of us who were top shooters were "special deputies" so we could shoot for the county sheriff's pistol team)
 
Re: Giffords shooting causes gun sales to skyrocket in Arizona, some buyers looking t

At first sight, that flies in the face of reason. Professionals with regular training and updates are consistently outperformed by novice amateurs?

I know some cops that couldn't hit water if they fell out of a boat.

Here's an example of some trained and updated professionals.

Five of the seven officers investigating the club were involved in the shooting. Detective Paul Headley fired one round, Officer Michael Carey fired three, Officer Marc Cooper fired four, Officer Gescard Isnora fired eleven, and veteran officer Michael Oliver emptied two full magazines, firing 31 shots from a 9mm handgun and pausing to reload at least once.[20][21][22][23]

An autopsy showed Bell was struck four times in the neck and torso. Guzman (31 y.o.) was shot 19 times and Benefield (23 y.o.), who was in the back seat, was hit three times.

Sean Bell shooting incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These guys only got a 50% hit rate. Loughner, a kid, with no training that only owned a gun for a little over a month, did better than these professionals.
 
Re: Giffords shooting causes gun sales to skyrocket in Arizona, some buyers looking t

Wow I guess gun sales haven't been this good since Obama became president. Fear apparently sells guns.

yeah, fear you won't be able to buy them any more.
 
Re: Giffords shooting causes gun sales to skyrocket in Arizona, some buyers looking t

I try to imagine what would happen if we decided to severely restrict gun sales and strictly tighten up gun ownership rules. Think about how many guns there are in circulation. The black market would become huge and the disparity in ownership between the criminal element and the law abiding citizen would climb. The crime of stealing guns would go through the roof. Things aren't so bad now as you think. We pay the price every day for being such a free society. Guns are not the only thing we could eliminate to make us all safer but at what cost.
 
Re: Giffords shooting causes gun sales to skyrocket in Arizona, some buyers looking t

Had some of the people at the Giffords event been armed, do you believe the toll would have been less? I believe so, and it is incidents like this that affirm by belief in a strong support of the Second Amendment. An armed population is a safer population.

Interestingly enough; one of the men that jumped on the shooter was armed. Why he didn’t shoot the shooter I don’t know. Most likely is that he didn’t want to kill another person. It may be that he was the second man to get to the shooter and didn’t have a clear shot.

Most people who carry hand guns aren’t looking to kill someone. I have been justified in using deadly force twice and chose to use other means to defuse the situation. I hate to think that either of the crazy men that I let live went on to injury or kill someone else after that. One in particular was a very dangerous person who wanted to hurt me because I looked at him at a gas station but he retreated when I offered to cover him with gasoline before I set him on fire with my Colt 9mm.
 
Re: Giffords shooting causes gun sales to skyrocket in Arizona, some buyers looking t

Obama has supported most major gun and ammunition control initiatives during a decade and a half in public life, including renewing the expired ban on semiautomatic assault rifles. But while he has an unambiguously liberal record on guns, he talks about the issue using muted, nonconfrontational tones engineered to avoid alienating gun-friendly voters, a huge proportion of the electorate that has steadily drifted away from Obama.

That pattern has held true, and then some, in the wake of the assassination attempt against Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and the murder of six others earlier this month.

White House officials have remained noncommittal about an effort by liberals in the House and Senate to restrict access to the kind of high-capacity ammunition magazines that allowed suspect Jared Lee Loughner to inflict mass casualties in a matter of seconds using a single, legal handgun.

Barack Obama?s conspicuous silence on guns - Glenn Thrush - POLITICO.com

just like closing gitmo

it's the right thing to do, according to obama, but it's just so difficult
 
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Re: Giffords shooting causes gun sales to skyrocket in Arizona, some buyers looking t

Interestingly enough; one of the men that jumped on the shooter was armed. Why he didn’t shoot the shooter I don’t know. Most likely is that he didn’t want to kill another person. It may be that he was the second man to get to the shooter and didn’t have a clear shot.

Most people who carry hand guns aren’t looking to kill someone. I have been justified in using deadly force twice and chose to use other means to defuse the situation. I hate to think that either of the crazy men that I let live went on to injury or kill someone else after that. One in particular was a very dangerous person who wanted to hurt me because I looked at him at a gas station but he retreated when I offered to cover him with gasoline before I set him on fire with my Colt 9mm.

The armed bystander was Joe Zamudio.

Judge John Roll Was a Hero: Why Didn't We Know This? - Sandy Rios - Townhall Conservative

We know that retired Army National Guard Colonel Bill Badger, though injured, tackled Loughner. We know Joe Zamudio, a young bystander carrying a gun, ran to the scene initially to stop the shooter by his own deadly force, but aided Badger instead in the restraint. While both held Loughner, Patricia Maisch removed another loaded magazine from Loughner’s pocket.
 
Re: Giffords shooting causes gun sales to skyrocket in Arizona, some buyers looking t

Wow I guess gun sales haven't been this good since Obama became president. Fear apparently sells guns.

The "fear" in this case is more gun control legislation.
 
Re: Giffords shooting causes gun sales to skyrocket in Arizona, some buyers looking t

Interestingly enough; one of the men that jumped on the shooter was armed. Why he didn’t shoot the shooter I don’t know. Most likely is that he didn’t want to kill another person. It may be that he was the second man to get to the shooter and didn’t have a clear shot.

Most people who carry hand guns aren’t looking to kill someone. I have been justified in using deadly force twice and chose to use other means to defuse the situation. I hate to think that either of the crazy men that I let live went on to injury or kill someone else after that. One in particular was a very dangerous person who wanted to hurt me because I looked at him at a gas station but he retreated when I offered to cover him with gasoline before I set him on fire with my Colt 9mm.

As I understand it this was the situation. The ability for individuals to shoot in these situations is extremely limited.
 
Re: Giffords shooting causes gun sales to skyrocket in Arizona, some buyers looking t

yeah, fear you won't be able to buy them any more.

Bingo. Fear of the government.
 
Re: Giffords shooting causes gun sales to skyrocket in Arizona, some buyers looking t

At first sight, that flies in the face of reason. Professionals with regular training and updates are consistently outperformed by novice amateurs?

People who like guns tend to shoot them a lot. "Professionals" only need to qualify a couple of times a year.
 
Re: Giffords shooting causes gun sales to skyrocket in Arizona, some buyers looking t

When there are deranged citizens, mass confusion and armed people running around in stressful situations the toll of death will be lower? Are you able to work better when you have heavy metal music blasting into one ear and your wife screaming in the other? If anything all scientific evidence indicates that a human being is more likely to commit a mistake during such a situation.

Are you going to use this as an excuse to misuse another phrase and then run away?

Well, now an irrelevant hypothetical from the master of the hit and run post...
 
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