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Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

In other news...mindless partisans continue to ignore the fact that Obama has not only NOT closed GITMO (and instead blame it on Bush) but also ignore the fact that Obama has stepped up secret prisons in the middle east and reversed his position to deny terrorists constitutional rights. Details will NOT be upcoming at noon, 5, and 11...
 
I do not see the problem here. The President dislikes something, but realizes it is indeed a necessity, thus he prolongs it for the time being. That is what an elected leader is supposed to do. If he simply kept all of his promises only to hurt the nation he is sworn to defend, then he has accomplished nothing. I for one am glad that politicians are at least intelligent enough to give thought to legislation and change their first opinions, rather than being "fundamentalist" in their ideals and pushing garbage through that serves no purpose other than to "keep promises."

You are right...there is NOTHING WRONG with the president realizing...ooopsie...maybe Candidate Obama was a little foolish, naive, and playing to a partisan crowd and has to approach things differently as President Obama.
 
You are right...there is NOTHING WRONG with the president realizing...ooopsie...maybe Candidate Obama was a little foolish, naive, and playing to a partisan crowd and has to approach things differently as President Obama.

All candidates do this. I have not witnessed one election where the candidates have kept their promises. Remember Bush and the Republicans promising to end spending? Yet they inflated spending themselves. There is always a disconnect between a candidate and being President. Reality is not always as easy as ideas.
 
In other news...mindless partisans continue to ignore the fact that Obama has not only NOT closed GITMO (and instead blame it on Bush) but also ignore the fact that Obama has stepped up secret prisons in the middle east and reversed his position to deny terrorists constitutional rights. Details will NOT be upcoming at noon, 5, and 11...

Didn't I ask you for evidence of this? Wonder why you ignored the request?
 
All candidates do this. I have not witnessed one election where the candidates have kept their promises. Remember Bush and the Republicans promising to end spending? Yet they inflated spending themselves. There is always a disconnect between a candidate and being President. Reality is not always as easy as ideas.

I wholeheartedly agree. Frankly...its refreshing to hear someone that 'leans slightly liberal' to say..."yep...good point...The mans had to learn its a little tougher job than maybe he thought or presented and you cant follow through on everything" instead of making a bunch of excuses and still blaming Bush for everything. And for what its worth, my intial response is the same...to give the guy credit for good intentions and for growing a little on-the-job.

I think the point about the rabid mouth foamers that were so desperate to criticize Bush and see GITMO shut down now suddenly being silent...well...thats still a pretty salient point. But then...mouth foamers and rabid hyperpartisans are what they are...and its highly unlikely they will ever change. Talking to them is a futile exercise.
 
I wholeheartedly agree. Frankly...its refreshing to hear someone that 'leans slightly liberal' to say..."yep...good point...The mans had to learn its a little tougher job than maybe he thought or presented and you cant follow through on everything" instead of making a bunch of excuses and still blaming Bush for everything. And for what its worth, my intial response is the same...to give the guy credit for good intentions and for growing a little on-the-job.

I think the point about the rabid mouth foamers that were so desperate to criticize Bush and see GITMO shut down now suddenly being silent...well...thats still a pretty salient point. But then...mouth foamers and rabid hyperpartisans are what they are...and its highly unlikely they will ever change. Talking to them is a futile exercise.

It is futile indeed, and I will admit that I voted for him, hoping he would not close Gitmo. I cannot understand the need of Americans to bring those who wanted to blow the country up into the country.
 
I do not see the problem here. The President dislikes something, but realizes it is indeed a necessity, thus he prolongs it for the time being. That is what an elected leader is supposed to do. If he simply kept all of his promises only to hurt the nation he is sworn to defend, then he has accomplished nothing. I for one am glad that politicians are at least intelligent enough to give thought to legislation and change their first opinions, rather than being "fundamentalist" in their ideals and pushing garbage through that serves no purpose other than to "keep promises."

If he didn't understand the importance of Gitmo, though most did, then he should not have made those repeated promises.

How else can we judge a person but by their word? And that's just what a promise is.

To dismiss a promise as unimportant, and make excuses for not keeping it, is lowering standards to such an extent that any political platforms will become meaningless, and the public will have no one to blame but themselves.

This looking the other way because it was your candidate who lied or misrepresented himself will serve the other party just as well when their candidate lies. No politician will then be held to any standards whatsoever, and the country will suffer further as a result. We should expect honor and dignity from every politician and avoid the idea that it is a team sport. Instead the electorate, and the media, should again focus on what is best for the country.
 
No one could embarrass Bush more than Bush did. Remeber, always, that he created the problem there. Nothing anyone else does changes that.

It matters little to liberals, Democrats and other Bush haters that he embarassed himself in their minds. A lot of those people will continue to try to validate it until their last breath. It's kind of like the Sara Palin derangement. How many more examples do people have to throw out there that she is dumb? People like that never quit because they are so arrogant about what they think is true and are amazed that 100% of people don't agree with them. Their truth is absolute truth.
 
If he didn't understand the importance of Gitmo, though most did, then he should not have made those repeated promises.

How else can we judge a person but by their word? And that's just what a promise is.

To dismiss a promise as unimportant, and make excuses for not keeping it, is lowering standards to such an extent that any political platforms will become meaningless, and the public will have no one to blame but themselves.

This looking the other way because it was your candidate who lied or misrepresented himself will serve the other party just as well when their candidate lies. No politician will then be held to any standards whatsoever, and the country will suffer further as a result. We should expect honor and dignity from every politician and avoid the idea that it is a team sport. Instead the electorate, and the media, should again focus on what is best for the country.

I am not advocating that a politician lie. However, if he is unable to keep a certain promise, and the reason why outweights the potential good of keeping it, then a politician has just become a statesman, not a politician. Only "politicians" keep all promises regardless of the cost.
 
It matters little to liberals, Democrats and other Bush haters that he embarassed himself in their minds. A lot of those people will continue to try to validate it until their last breath. It's kind of like the Sara Palin derangement. How many more examples do people have to throw out there that she is dumb? People like that never quit because they are so arrogant about what they think is true and are amazed that 100% of people don't agree with them. Their truth is absolute truth.

Sterotype much? how do you know that the lack of embarassment is not only in your mind?

:coffeepap
 
It is futile indeed, and I will admit that I voted for him, hoping he would not close Gitmo. I cannot understand the need of Americans to bring those who wanted to blow the country up into the country.

What difference would it make? We have some of them here now, in prison, and they have been ubale to do squat.
 
What difference would it make? We have some of them here now, in prison, and they have been ubale to do squat.

Here is the thing. If they are not guilty, then send them back home. If they are, and you place them into US prisons, then they are in danger from other prisoners. If you leave them in US isolation, then what is the difference in them being in Gitmo? Finally, Obama would have lost either way he went on this. If he refused to sign it, then he would be accused of "not supporting the troops." By signing it, he is accused of supporting Gitmo. Life is tough and tough decisions have to be made, even those we do not necessarily agree with.
 
hysterics and hyperbole again?

That does describe what you're trying to do.

If the president could just place everything he wants in a executive order, there would be no need for congress. Just pass it on to the president. Bush overused the executive order, and it did hurt us a good deal. We should not encourage this type of by passing of congress.
 
Here is the thing. If they are not guilty, then send them back home. If they are, and you place them into US prisons, then they are in danger from other prisoners. If you leave them in US isolation, then what is the difference in them being in Gitmo? Finally, Obama would have lost either way he went on this. If he refused to sign it, then he would be accused of "not supporting the troops." By signing it, he is accused of supporting Gitmo. Life is tough and tough decisions have to be made, even those we do not necessarily agree with.

We have them in this country now. Have they been killed?

As for difference, we have rule of law here. Gitmo has been run largely outside of rule of law, and we would have greater control and less ability to ignore rule of law here. They are no real danger to us, and not really any danger from prisoners here.

And yes, I agree decisions are tough. And there is a large difference between what any politiican promises and what that politician can deliver.
 
We have them in this country now. Have they been killed?

As for difference, we have rule of law here. Gitmo has been run largely outside of rule of law, and we would have greater control and less ability to ignore rule of law here. They are no real danger to us, and not really any danger from prisoners here.

And yes, I agree decisions are tough. And there is a large difference between what any politiican promises and what that politician can deliver.

No they have not been killed, but they have been kept in solitary confinement for "national security reasons," so with that there is no real difference. Citing national security to blanket actions happen in country as well as out.
 
That does describe what you're trying to do.

If the president could just place everything he wants in a executive order, there would be no need for congress. Just pass it on to the president. Bush overused the executive order, and it did hurt us a good deal. We should not encourage this type of by passing of congress.



I hope there aren't any drunks or drug addicts around you. you would be what's called an "enabler"..... :lol:


seriously man, the new guy, same as the old guy.

D congress
D house
D President.


what did they do to reverse what you think W did wrong?
 
No they have not been killed, but they have been kept in solitary confinement for "national security reasons," so with that there is no real difference. Citing national security to blanket actions happen in country as well as out.

Prisoners who are not terrorist have been so held, and we seem quite fine with that.
 
Prisoners who are not terrorist have been so held, and we seem quite fine with that.

They have been held because they claim they will be killed if they go back. Honestly, if they are not terrorists then why would they be targeted? If you ask me, I think they just want free, do not pass go, US citizenship.
 
I hope there aren't any drunks or drug addicts around you. you would be what's called an "enabler"..... :lol:


seriously man, the new guy, same as the old guy.

D congress
D house
D President.


what did they do to reverse what you think W did wrong?

Notice you change from him to they. That's my point.

And if you had actually followed my arguments over the years, you would recall I said even then that it was easier to get in this mess than out of it. There's no magic wand to undo all the damage Bush did.
 
They have been held because they claim they will be killed if they go back. Honestly, if they are not terrorists then why would they be targeted? If you ask me, I think they just want free, do not pass go, US citizenship.

I was talking about US citizens, held for reasons other than terrorism or anything to do with tetrrorism. Murders, and other criminals, held away from the general population for a variety of reasons.

And sure, everyone wants to go free. And depending on their crime, it might be just to free some. If they were prisoners of war, and the war was over, or could reasonable be expected to be over at some point, then they could expect to be freed at sometime.

But, if they are criminals, then they need to be tried as criminals and justly imprisoned if guilty of crimes.

Bush messed this up early on. And now we have to deal with the consequences of that screw up.
 
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