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Arizona Suspect's Erratic Behavior Raises Questions About Gun Sales

VanceMack said:
It hasnt worked in DC, hasnt worked in Cali, hasnt worked ANYWHERE with regard to say...heroin, cocaine, etc.

Fact is the parts of the country with the MOST restrictive laws on private ownership of firearms have the MOST violent crime and murder rates in the country. Bans dont work. Bans just dont work.
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sure they do
look at the experience of japan and england
 
liblady said:
i have no issues with hunting, nor do i have issues with a gun used for personal protection, although i do believe in strong regulation. not knowing a lot about guns, can you tell me a why a person would need to get off that many rounds that quickly? a plausible situation, i mean.
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Defense against a multiple-attacker home invasion.
 
liblady said:
i have no issues with hunting, nor do i have issues with a gun used for personal protection, although i do believe in strong regulation. not knowing a lot about guns, can you tell me a why a person would need to get off that many rounds that quickly? a plausible situation, i mean.
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To make sure you got more firepower than the bad guy.
 
Liblady et al., I'm not running out on this debate yet, however, I have about an hour left in the day and some paperwork I have to finish up before I head home, so I'll be back to address those links in a bit. :) Safe Debating, folks.
 
justabubba said:
sure they do
look at the experience of japan and england
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Join us here in America...and the real world. No bull****...a point blank straight up answer. Do you HONESTLY believe that if you passed a total ban of firearms that criminals would not still get them as readily as they get in shipments of cocaine and heroin?
 
liblady said:
Murders with firearms (per capita) by country. Definition, graph and map.
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By fact of having guns in our society as legal tools, there will be a certain amount of gun crime. Probably higher than other countries which have full bans. Though it's hard to directly compare across cultures and State geography. But I can see countries with full gun bans having less gun crime (it won't be zero; it will never be zero). However, this is a consequence of recognizing the individual's right to keep and bear arms. Because we allow guns, there will be some amount of those guns (though the percentages are rather low) used in crimes; it's a consequence of freedom. Free states will always be more dangerous because...well they're free. So you can make the choice. Do you wish to restrict freedom to gain some sense of "safety", or do you accept the consequences, repercussions, and responsibilities associated with freedom? I take the latter.
 
apdst said:
Yeah! Look at England.



A gun ban worked like a charm.
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let's compare murder rates where a gun was used (per 100,000 population):
USA 3.98
england 0.15
japan 0.02

or we could look to the north
canada 0.4

notice how well our guns-for-everybody policy protects us from criminals

source: Gun Facts
 
justabubba said:
let's compare murder rates where a gun was used (per 100,000 population):
USA 3.98
england 0.15
japan 0.02

or we could look to the north
canada 0.4

notice how well our guns-for-everybody policy protects us from criminals

source: Gun Facts
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And now, you don't get it, either.

Let's look at Liblady's original comment:

liblady said:
to the contrary, an outright banning of all guns would stop a lot of our violence. not that i advocate that, but it's true.
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Nobody ever said anything about America's crime rate being lower than anyone else's.

The factual comment that she made, is that gun bans cause violent crime to go down. That's untrue.
 
Goshin said:
Defense against a multiple-attacker home invasion.
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yale_deadbolt_lock_nt840.jpg
 
apdst said:
And now, you don't get it, either.

Let's look at Liblady's original comment:



Nobody ever said anything about America's crime rate being lower than anyone else's.

The factual comment that she made, is that gun bans cause violent crime to go down. That's untrue.
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actually, it is you who is unable to wrap his head around what the facts are telling us

the incidence of murder by guns is dramatically lower in those countries which restrict gun ownership
 
justabubba said:
actually, it is you who is unable to wrap his head around what the facts are telling us

the incidence of murder by guns is dramatically lower in those countries which restrict gun ownership
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Lower than it was before they restricted guns?

Guns don't make criminals. There are many more fators that effect crime rates.
 
apdst said:
Lower than it was before they restricted guns?

Guns don't make criminals. There are many more fators that effect crime rates.
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our homicide rate is 10X that of canada's
the major difference:
tolerance of guns
 
There are federal laws that add time to crimes committed with a fire arm so thinking that scaring criminals with strict guns laws flawed.

to the contrary, an outright banning of all guns would stop a lot of our violence. not that i advocate that, but it's true.
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No, it is not true at all. I can tell you that if there were no guns on this planet the level of violence would rise because the police would have no way to confront the criminals. Banning guns has not worked to stop violence; it just means that the public has no guns while the criminals do. Murder and rape are banned but here in Texas we just caught a man who had raped at least nine elderly women. He didn’t need a gun or a knife but if one of those old women had been armed he might not have raped the others.

The level of violence in cities like Washington D.C. and Chicago clearly serve as evidence to the contrary.
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Great examples of an over balance of criminals having more guns than the public at large. Much of the violence in DC and Chicago is over drug turf so even without guns the drug dealers would kill their rivals.

the supply would dry up.
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Just like the supply of drugs? How would you deal with the guns that are already in the hands of law abiding citizens?? You can’t have mine…….

if I was 100% guaranteed that the anyone else could protect me and my family, without my guns, as well as I can protect myself with them, I'd give up my firearms in a heartbeat
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Even with such a guarantee I would and will not give up my responsibility to protect my family.

Assuming all guns magically disappeared, we would simply have more crime with other weapons.
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Right you are. I can deal with three guys with knives if I’m armed but naked I will get cut up.

countries with guns bans have far less violent crime than we do.
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Mexico?? Other countries that have more restrictive gun laws have a less diverse population.

Fox News: Not Racists, but #1 with Racists.
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Please refrain from attack the majority of the public that watch the news. Or show evidence that people who watch Fox News are racists??

actually, it is you who is unable to wrap his head around what the facts are telling us

the incidence of murder by guns is dramatically lower in those countries which restrict gun ownership
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Just because the Japanese have a lower incidence of gun violence is meaning less because they just don’t kill each other like our drug dealers do.

our homicide rate is 10X that of canada's
the major difference:
tolerance of guns
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One more time. Look at who is killing who and tell us what Canada has to do with this argument? Canada doesn’t have a population of criminal drug dealers willing to kill their competition.
 
justabubba said:
note the difference in laws, where canada effectively allows only long guns:
A Practical Guide to Canada's Gun Laws for Americans

notice the difference in homicide rate where guns are used:
USA 3.98 per 100,000 population
canada 0.4 per 100,000
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I would bet that everyone else this forum would agree that that link doesn't prove that the existance of guns is the soul reason for American having a higher crime rate. Everyone but you and Liblady, that is.
 
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