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Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

I think if they actually read the bill instead of taking Obama's word for it, they would probably want it repealed.

Right, how arrogant when we are told "that you have to pass the bill to find out what is in the bill." The American people now know what is in the bill but the problem is liberals still ignore it even after passing it.
 
To fix that, you have to move to do the larger job those things are doing now. It would be best handled with a univerisal payor. As that won't happen any time soon, the next best thing is the peicemeal approach, best with a public option, and what this present bill attempts to do, rather poorly without the tpublic option.

Single payor healthcare doesn't work. Why would you want to do that?

What good is a healthcare reform bill that authorizes the funding of a private army for the president and insitutes more tax laws? Why would you support that?
 
Single payor healthcare doesn't work. Why would you want to do that?

What good is a healthcare reform bill that authorizes the funding of a private army for the president and insitutes more tax laws? Why would you support that?

because he wants that.
 
because he wants that.

That's what blows me away. Libbos readily support a bill that authorizes the president to have a private army.
 
Single payor healthcare doesn't work. Why would you want to do that?

What good is a healthcare reform bill that authorizes the funding of a private army for the president and insitutes more tax laws? Why would you support that?

Not sure why you insist it doesn't work. I suspect you will soon make some comparison that is irrelevent, and make a leap not supported by facts.

The second part of your post is knd of over the top. You might want to step back and try to be a little more coherent. If you do, I'll try and respond you that point.
 
That's what blows me away. Libbos readily support a bill that authorizes the president to have a private army.

Drugs are bad ok. :coffeepap
 
That's what blows me away. Libbos readily support a bill that authorizes the president to have a private army.

what part of "strong, central government with general police (rather than enumerated) powers" keeps surprising you? it's not like they're that disengenious about what they're after.
 
Not sure why you insist it doesn't work. I suspect you will soon make some comparison that is irrelevent, and make a leap not supported by facts.

The second part of your post is knd of over the top. You might want to step back and try to be a little more coherent. If you do, I'll try and respond you that point.

Give us some exmaples of how it works so well. Thanks in advance.
 
Boo Radley;1059203041]Not sure why you insist it doesn't work. I suspect you will soon make some comparison that is irrelevent, and make a leap not supported by facts.

Where are your facts that show a single payer system works and define working? Are you claiming that Medicare and SS are working? You actually think that single payer is going to cut costs? Where is the historical data to support that?
 
what part of "strong, central government with general police (rather than enumerated) powers" keeps surprising you? it's not like they're that disengenious about what they're after.

I understand and agree. What boggles my mind, is why Libbos would support such a system. Surely they know that Obama's not going to be president forever. Nor is there any kind of guarantee that another Libbo president, like Obama, is going to take his place. IOW, why would they trust a Conservative president to have his own private army?
 
This board is far more liberal than the general public, and yet even here Obamacare is a laughingstock.

Repeal it, start over, and let's all pretend this never happened.
 
Give us some exmaples of how it works so well. Thanks in advance.

All a single payor needs to be is a payor. Doctors still work free of control. The market still works as it did before. And it can be two tier, in which those who can afford more can have more. And taking form tax dollars should be less expensive than unmanged price gouging done by hospitals that charge us all more because they treat people who can't pay.

But, let's define first:

Single-payer systems may contract for healthcare services from private organizations (as is the case in Canada) or may own and employ healthcare resources and personnel (as is the case in the United Kingdom). The term single-payer thus only describes the funding mechanism—referring to health care being paid for by a single public body from a single fund—and does not specify the type of delivery, or for whom doctors work. Although the fund holder is usually the government, some forms of single-payer employ a public-private system.

Single-payer health care - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The problem:

The reason we spend more and get less than the rest of the world is because we have a patchwork system of for-profit payers. Private insurers necessarily waste health dollars on things that have nothing to do with care: overhead, underwriting, billing, sales and marketing departments as well as huge profits and exorbitant executive pay. Doctors and hospitals must maintain costly administrative staffs to deal with the bureaucracy. Combined, this needless administration consumes one-third (31 percent) of Americans’ health dollars.

Single-payer financing is the only way to recapture this wasted money. The potential savings on paperwork, more than $350 billion per year, are enough to provide comprehensive coverage to everyone without paying any more than we already do.

Single-Payer National Health Insurance | Physicians for a National Health Program
 
All a single payor needs to be is a payor. Doctors still work free of control. The market still works as it did before. And it can be two tier, in which those who can afford more can have more. And taking form tax dollars should be less expensive than unmanged price gouging done by hospitals that charge us all more because they treat people who can't pay.

But, let's define first:

Single-payer systems may contract for healthcare services from private organizations (as is the case in Canada) or may own and employ healthcare resources and personnel (as is the case in the United Kingdom). The term single-payer thus only describes the funding mechanism—referring to health care being paid for by a single public body from a single fund—and does not specify the type of delivery, or for whom doctors work. Although the fund holder is usually the government, some forms of single-payer employ a public-private system.

Single-payer health care - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The problem:

The reason we spend more and get less than the rest of the world is because we have a patchwork system of for-profit payers. Private insurers necessarily waste health dollars on things that have nothing to do with care: overhead, underwriting, billing, sales and marketing departments as well as huge profits and exorbitant executive pay. Doctors and hospitals must maintain costly administrative staffs to deal with the bureaucracy. Combined, this needless administration consumes one-third (31 percent) of Americans’ health dollars.

Single-payer financing is the only way to recapture this wasted money. The potential savings on paperwork, more than $350 billion per year, are enough to provide comprehensive coverage to everyone without paying any more than we already do.

Single-Payer National Health Insurance | Physicians for a National Health Program

So, a 7 year wait for elective surgery is your idea of a system that works?
 
All a single payor needs to be is a payor. Doctors still work free of control. The market still works as it did before. And it can be two tier, in which those who can afford more can have more. And taking form tax dollars should be less expensive than unmanged price gouging done by hospitals that charge us all more because they treat people who can't pay.

But, let's define first:

Single-payer systems may contract for healthcare services from private organizations (as is the case in Canada) or may own and employ healthcare resources and personnel (as is the case in the United Kingdom). The term single-payer thus only describes the funding mechanism—referring to health care being paid for by a single public body from a single fund—and does not specify the type of delivery, or for whom doctors work. Although the fund holder is usually the government, some forms of single-payer employ a public-private system.

Single-payer health care - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The problem:

The reason we spend more and get less than the rest of the world is because we have a patchwork system of for-profit payers. Private insurers necessarily waste health dollars on things that have nothing to do with care: overhead, underwriting, billing, sales and marketing departments as well as huge profits and exorbitant executive pay. Doctors and hospitals must maintain costly administrative staffs to deal with the bureaucracy. Combined, this needless administration consumes one-third (31 percent) of Americans’ health dollars.

Single-payer financing is the only way to recapture this wasted money. The potential savings on paperwork, more than $350 billion per year, are enough to provide comprehensive coverage to everyone without paying any more than we already do.

Single-Payer National Health Insurance | Physicians for a National Health Program

Absolutely amazing spin. Don't get it, what is in it for you? why are you ignoring the number of doctors and hospitals opting out of Medicare because of the limits put upon them by the single payer system? You are buying a pipe dream and for what purpose? Why do you continue to buy what the leftwing tells you? In reality single payer is a disaster, reduces incentive and increases costs. Medicare is an example of single payer and how much waste, fraud, and abuse has been identified. How can there be waste, fraud, and abuse in a govt. run program?

I believe you support the single payer system not because you actually believe there will be cost savings but instead because there is some personal gain for you.
 
How about you explain what you meant in detail?

The sentence I noted was incoherent. Just as was your private army comment. Besides being a kind of paraniod delusional type of comment. I don't think it can be any more clear. :coffeepap
 
So, a 7 year wait for elective surgery is your idea of a system that works?

What I find interesting is how liberals ignore history and actual results. The MA healthcare system was the model for Obamacare. Those results are a disaster as people cannot get into a doctor's office thus ER rooms are more overcrowded than ever. Wasn't the MA program supposed to lower costs? now take the MA program and add another 40 million to the roles? That the definition of success to a liberal?
 
So, a 7 year wait for elective surgery is your idea of a system that works?

You are likely spouting some misrepresentation from some questionable source. We once looked at wait times here and in Canada, and they were commparable, for example. Having a single payer doesn't effect wait times, especially in the type of system where doctors are nto controlled, but merely paid by the payer.
 
The sentence I noted was incoherent. Just as was your private army comment. Besides being a kind of paraniod delusional type of comment. I don't think it can be any more clear. :coffeepap

Are you saying that Obamacare doesn't authorize funding for a para-military force that answers only to the president?
 
Are you saying that Obamacare doesn't authorize funding for a para-military force that answers only to the president?

Please, provide some CREDIBLE evidence. By all means. :coffeepap
 
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