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Autism-vaccine study was 'fraud,' journal says

Re: Journal: Study linking vaccine to autism was fraud Read more: http://www.foxnews

Zyroh said:
Modern science is based on positivism. Positivism says that there is no difference between something that doesn't exist and something that exists and hasn't been observed. So modern science says the extent of our universe is only those things which we observe. This seems illogical to me.
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You're mistaken. The scientific method doesn't speak to something that is unobservable, so in that way the unobservable is similar to something that doesn't exist. But that doesn't mean that "positivism says that there is no difference." Of course there is a difference, one exists and one doesn't. All positivism says is that we should treat all unobserved phenomena as just that-- unobserved-- until it actually has been observed.

If you can think of a more logical way to deal with unobserved phenomena I am all ears. If you can it will probably earn you a Nobel Prize:)
 
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Re: Journal: Study linking vaccine to autism was fraud Read more: http://www.foxnews

Zyroh said:
Modern science is based on positivism. Positivism says that there is no difference between something that doesn't exist and something that exists and hasn't been observed. So modern science says the extent of our universe is only those things which we observe. This seems illogical to me. I won't even go into the extent at which our science is dominated by the elite that decide what 'knowledge' appears in our text books and scientific journals. Remember positivism, there is no man behind the curtain until you observe him.
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As the above poster said, science is concerned with observable phenomena. If something is not observable, either directly or indirectly, then it cannot be studied and therefore is not within the realm of science. That is the realm of philosophy.
 
Re: Journal: Study linking vaccine to autism was fraud Read more: http://www.foxnews

MrVicchio said:
What risk? There was no risk. Skipping vaccines = dumb.
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Perhaps I was not clear. My point was, not only did this widely cited study (believe me within the community of people with Autism in a family member this study/conclusion was very widely read and hotly debated), convince a certain percentage of people NOT to vaccinate their children (in my case it was not an issue as my son was already older when it came out, and we would not have taken that route), it raised hope for many that by following its conclusions their children would somehow recover.

"Skipping vaccines = dumb" is very easy to say when you are not the one with a child/dependent with this condition. If you have not personally lived with this challenge you cannot know what it is like, nor how greatly you hold out for a cure/improvement, if even only deep within your heart.
 
Still doesn't mean that mercury wasnt in some vaccines being distributed.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
there were charges against Wakefield's study very early on here and the Govt tried to make the case for the MMR vaccine but it's not easy to be rational about what you do or do not put into your child's body when they are so helpless. My ex wife and I read the literature at the time and had our two boys vaccinated - but reading the literature still didn't dispell all fear as the needles went in.
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There is inherent risk involved with any medical procedure and receiving a vaccine is a medical procedure.

MrVicchio said:
What risk? There was no risk.
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Not strictly true. There is a remote chance of a negative reaction occurring that can cause everything from skin irritation to death. It's EXTREMELY rare but it is, technically, still a risk.

snilloctjc said:
"Skipping vaccines = dumb" is very easy to say when you are not the one with a child/dependent with this condition. If you have not personally lived with this challenge you cannot know what it is like, nor how greatly you hold out for a cure/improvement, if even only deep within your heart.
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No, as much as it may crack the earth open for me to say this, I'm with Vichio. Unless you have been medically advised by several doctors or other similar professionals, skipping vaccines is a bad move. Your chances of catching the diseases vaccines are meant to prevent are greater than your chances of a negative reaction and there is no known mechanic for vaccinations to create or spur autism.

And dont pull me "you dont know what it's like" card, I work with adults with special needs on a daily basis, I'm intimately familiar with a wide range of the autism spectrum.

dirtpoorchris said:
Still doesn't mean that mercury wasnt in some vaccines being distributed.
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For ****'s sake. There is no elemental mercury in vaccines.
 
Re: Journal: Study linking vaccine to autism was fraud Read more: http://www.foxnews

Hopelite
There is a huge difference between "working" with the disabled and raising them. Your work day has an end.
 
Re: Journal: Study linking vaccine to autism was fraud Read more: http://www.foxnews

snilloctjc said:
Hopelite
There is a huge difference between "working" with the disabled and raising them. Your work day has an end.
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I spend almost 60 hours a week helping 25 people with everything from mild Aspergers to almost unable to communicate. I am thoroughly familiar with the experience of having to be a parental figure to someone with a severe neuro or physical developmental disorder. Dont play that card.
 
Re: Journal: Study linking vaccine to autism was fraud Read more: http://www.foxnews

Hoplite said:
I spend almost 60 hours a week helping 25 people with everything from mild Aspergers to almost unable to communicate. I am thoroughly familiar with the experience of having to be a parental figure to someone with a severe neuro or physical developmental disorder. Dont play that card.
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Just keep thinking that if it helps you do a good job helping these people.
 
Re: Journal: Study linking vaccine to autism was fraud Read more: http://www.foxnews

MrVicchio said:
Amazing! Peer reviewed science failed us? I wonder what other failures of Peer Review are out there...
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Peer reviewed science corrected the fraud, and Wakefield is now disgraced.
 
Re: Journal: Study linking vaccine to autism was fraud Read more: http://www.foxnews

snilloctjc said:
Perhaps I was not clear. My point was, not only did this widely cited study (believe me within the community of people with Autism in a family member this study/conclusion was very widely read and hotly debated), convince a certain percentage of people NOT to vaccinate their children (in my case it was not an issue as my son was already older when it came out, and we would not have taken that route), it raised hope for many that by following its conclusions their children would somehow recover.

"Skipping vaccines = dumb" is very easy to say when you are not the one with a child/dependent with this condition. If you have not personally lived with this challenge you cannot know what it is like, nor how greatly you hold out for a cure/improvement, if even only deep within your heart.
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Where is the evidence that giving a child vaccines increase their risk of having autism.
 
Anarcho-fascist said:
So what? There's mercury in the air.
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And in the water, in our food... mercury is a naturally occuring heavy metal. Yes there's a few parts per million in vaccines. The best way I've seen it described was from here:

During the recent controversy over the safety of thimerosal in vaccines, toxicologists have assumed that the toxicity of ethylmercury is equivalent to the toxicity of methylmercury. The primary environmental exposure is through consumption of predator fish. A 6-ounce can of tuna fish contains an average of 17 micrograms of mercury. A pediatric dose of hepatitis B vaccine contains very little more mercury than that.3
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Vaccines: Vaccinations and Mercury in Vaccines


I still use an old bottle of mercurochrome for cuts and bruises. The amount of mercury in mercurochrome? Dunno - but CFL bulbs have 4 milligrams suspended as a vapor. While those vaccines had 17 micrograms. 4 milligrams = 4000 micrograms. Autism junkies should stop eating fish, never buy old style thermometers and only use incandescent light bulbs if they're going to worry about micrograms of mercury in their children.
 
Re: Journal: Study linking vaccine to autism was fraud Read more: http://www.foxnews

Anarcho-fascist said:
Where is the evidence that giving a child vaccines increase their risk of having autism.
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That was the original "finding" by the now discredited study. Personally my wife and I never bought the proposition. Unfortunately many people we know did, some either refused the MMR Vaccine (the usually cited suspect because it is a multiple vaccine and according to some its introduction corresponded with the recorded/reported rise in Autism), or requested vaccines be given individually)
 
Re: Journal: Study linking vaccine to autism was fraud Read more: http://www.foxnews

Khayembii Communique said:
That is the realm of philosophy.
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Also known as "imagination land".

1) All ducks can fly
2) Socrates is a duck
3) Therefore socrates can fly

Oh, the power of PHILOSOPHY!
 
You mean Dr. Jenny McCarthy was full of ****? No way.
 
Re: Journal: Study linking vaccine to autism was fraud Read more: http://www.foxnews

snilloctjc said:
Perhaps I was not clear. My point was, not only did this widely cited study (believe me within the community of people with Autism in a family member this study/conclusion was very widely read and hotly debated), convince a certain percentage of people NOT to vaccinate their children (in my case it was not an issue as my son was already older when it came out, and we would not have taken that route), it raised hope for many that by following its conclusions their children would somehow recover.

"Skipping vaccines = dumb" is very easy to say when you are not the one with a child/dependent with this condition. If you have not personally lived with this challenge you cannot know what it is like, nor how greatly you hold out for a cure/improvement, if even only deep within your heart.
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AHH, I misread your point as saying that it was wise to skip the vaccine, my apologies.

I fully understand that hope springs eternal, and when faced with a life challenge for which there is little hope, any sign is welcome... even if it's fleeting.
 
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