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Sixth-Grade Girl Has Date in Court After Writing in Wet Cement

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Kelzie said:
Of course the biggest irony is that I, a liberal, am arguing that the police didn't over react in their method of discipline while the conservatives on this thread are crying about how they're just kids being kids.
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Overgeneralize much?
 
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American said:
If they were children of liberals, they should get the slammer since they won't be disciplined at home.
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If they were children of conservatives, they should get the slammer so they won't be able to harm society.

Now, do you actually want to discuss the topic, or do you want to continue with posting idiotic partisan hackery?

As to the specific topic... the cops did the right thing. It's vandalism, plain and simple. Vandalism is against the law and requires consequences. This is a good lesson for the girls to not vandalize anything again.
 
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MrVicchio said:
Wherein did I say that?

There is a difference, between wet cement, a fascination to children the world over, and getting your hands on a can of spray paint and vandalizing property.

You're now trying to alter the subject with further distortions of what I said and why. Are you that incapable of being honest?
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Actually, there is no difference. Children can be fascinated by many things that, if they act on their fascination, cause damage and break the law. Consequences are appropriate.
 
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If only they had written an anti-abortion screed....
 
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Tucker Case said:
there's no "might". It's the odds on favorite to be true. and I'm not the one dealing with what if's here, Vic. I'm dealing with reality bred form expereince in teh trade. Your only argumetn is if there are a certain unliekly set of What ifs in place



As I said, that's a cerain set of unlikely "what if's". It owuld only be possible to refinish adequately if the damage was done almost immediately after it was finished (like within 15-20 minutes) and then the guy who finished it could get back within about the same amount of time. Otherwise, it's not going to work right. And even then, the chances are that it will be too set to refinish.
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15 to 20 minutes ??? And you claim to have worked with concrete before. You just proved yourself a fraud.
 
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Gill said:
15 to 20 minutes ??? And you claim to have worked with concrete before. You just proved yourself a fraud.
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How do you figure?
 
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Tucker Case said:
How do you figure?
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Because if it set up in 15-20 minutes, it would be impossible to install concrete in large floors, walls, or roof decks. How could anything be poured that requIred multiple loads of concrete if it set up that fast ????

Concrete can be worked for hours after it is poured, longer if additives are included in the mix.

Have you really worked with concrete, or maybe just helped your dad pour a slab for a garbage can when you were a kid ??
 
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Gill said:
Because if it set up in 15-20 minutes, it would be impossible to install concrete in large floors, walls, or roof decks. How could anything be poured that requIred multiple loads of concrete if it set up that fast ?????
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Clearly you don't understand what "after it was finished" means.

you have to wait for it to set up before you brush it because if you don't wait for it to set, your finish will look like ****.
 
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Tucker Case said:
Clearly you don't understand what "after it was finished" means.
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Oh, I understand exactly what it means. I've been testing concrete for over 30 years.

Finished concrete can be easily smoothed over and repaired for several hours after it was initially finished, depending on the mix and additives of course. Most people installing sidewalks add too much water to the mix making it easier to work for longer periods.
 
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Gill said:
Oh, I understand exactly what it means. I've been testing concrete for over 30 years.

Finished concrete can be easily smoothed over and repaired for several hours after it was initially finished, depending on the mix and additives of course. Most people installing sidewalks add too much water to the mix making it easier to work for longer periods.
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That hasn't been my experience with it, but I admittedly do not have 30 years of experience with concrete. In my expereince, you get about an hour or so. Which is why I had a similar amount of time for the workers to return.

Perhaps the crews I worked with used less water in the mix than the norms, though.
 
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Tucker Case said:
That hasn't been my experience with it, but I admittedly do not have 30 years of experience with concrete. In my expereince, you get about an hour or so. Which is why I had a similar amount of time for the workers to return.

Perhaps the crews I worked with used less water in the mix than the norms, though.
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It was my job (one of many) to make sure they didn't add too much water. Of course, a lot of them would immediately add water after I finished my slump test. Most concrete workers hate working with stiff and dry concrete. Installing 50' x 50' floor bays or large tilt wall panels takes a lot of time and final finishing was often 4-5 hours after the first concrete pour was placed.
 
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Gill said:
It was my job (one of many) to make sure they didn't add too much water. Of course, a lot of them would immediately add water after I finished my slump test. Most concrete workers hate working with stiff and dry concrete. Installing 50' x 50' floor bays or large tilt wall panels takes a lot of time and final finishing was often 4-5 hours after the first concrete pour was placed.
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just tell the inspector to perform a core sample where that batch was poured
requiring the contractor to demolish, haul out and replace a culvert because his employees weakened the delivered concrete will end that unsafe practice
 
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CaptainCourtesy said:
Actually, there is no difference. Children can be fascinated by many things that, if they act on their fascination, cause damage and break the law. Consequences are appropriate.
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I never said they shouldn't be punished or that consequences were not appropriate.

I'm saying this time, it was inappropriately handled.
 
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Gill said:
It was my job (one of many) to make sure they didn't add too much water. Of course, a lot of them would immediately add water after I finished my slump test. Most concrete workers hate working with stiff and dry concrete. Installing 50' x 50' floor bays or large tilt wall panels takes a lot of time and final finishing was often 4-5 hours after the first concrete pour was placed.
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Essentially, you called me a fraud because you are basing your time estimates on the assumption that too much water was added.

What would your time estimates be if you were assuming the correct amount of water is added?
 
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I don't know about true crime here. There has to be some form of knowledge about an inoccuous activity like writing your name in wet cement. I didn't notice that there was tape up or a sign and I remember, as a child and as a parent, intentionally having our hand prints, names and dates preserved for posterity in cement sidewalks, one of which was the town sidewalk I had to replace because although our town tore it up for road work, they wouldn't replace it.
This waste of taxpayer money and the court system is absurd.

Khayembii Communique said:
Stupid that they're pursuing this so aggressively, but that's very obviously vandalism and they should have known that when they did it. The point is to not get caught, that's why it's fun...
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MrVicchio said:
I never said they shouldn't be punished or that consequences were not appropriate.

I'm saying this time, it was inappropriately handled.
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I say they shouldn't be punished. How does a 12 yr old know it's illegal to write your name in wet cement? Was there a sign posted? For God's sake, how could this be crime? It's a waste of taxpayer dollars and court time. It's nothing more than legal bullying. Families do this quite often in their own cement.
 
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Tucker Case said:
Essentially, you called me a fraud because you are basing your time estimates on the assumption that too much water was added.

What would your time estimates be if you were assuming the correct amount of water is added?
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No, any decent pour of concrete can be worked for several hours. Like I already said, how do you think huge concrete pours are done ?? It takes several hours to even get all the concrete in the forms sometimes. I've seen concrete pours where the concrete trucks were lined up around the block waiting their turn to pour.

And maybe calling you a fraud was a bit strong, just not as informed as you would have everyone believe.
 
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Mass Voter said:
How does a 12 yr old know it's illegal to write your name in wet cement?
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It's the parents job to teach them that they don't **** with other people's property.


Families do this quite often in their own cement.
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The key phrase here is "their own".
 
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Gill said:
No, any decent pour of concrete can be worked for several hours. Like I already said, how do you think huge concrete pours are done ?? It takes several hours to even get all the concrete in the forms sometimes. I've seen concrete pours where the concrete trucks were lined up around the block waiting their turn to pour.
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Worked for several hours is a far cry from "after it is finished". My question was specifically after finishing, not after first pour. How long after that point for a sidewalk using an appropriate amount of water?



And maybe calling you a fraud was a bit strong, just not as informed as you would have everyone believe.
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I'm curious. As a concrete tester, how much experience do you have actually finishing the concrete?
 
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Tucker Case said:
Worked for several hours is a far cry from "after it is finished". My question was specifically after finishing, not after first pour. How long after that point for a sidewalk using an appropriate amount of water?
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Do you actually believe that concrete magically becomes hard immediately after it is finished ??? Maybe my first assessment of you was correct.



I'm curious. As a concrete tester, how much experience do you have actually finishing the concrete?
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I've finished some myself and supervised the installation of millions of yards by others.

Any more questions ??
 
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Gill said:
Do you actually believe that concrete magically becomes hard immediately after it is finished ???
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No. I know that in order to finish it, you have to wait for it to set up a bit. that takes time. thus, by virtue of simple math, the time available when the pour begins is going to be less than the time available after it is finished.



I've finished some myself and supervised the installation of millions of yards by others.

Any more questions ??
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If you were supervising the installation, how is it that they are adding water after you had finished your slump test if your job was to make sure that they didn't add too much water?
 
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Re: Sixth-Grade Girl Has Date in Court After Writing in Wet Cement Read more: http:/

Tucker Case said:
No. I know that in order to finish it, you have to wait for it to set up a bit. that takes time. thus, by virtue of simple math, the time available when the pour begins is going to be less than the time available after it is finished.





If you were supervising the installation, how is it that they are adding water after you had finished your slump test if your job was to make sure that they didn't add too much water?
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If I was supervising, no water was added. If I was only testing, they could do what they wanted after I finished the test.

Comprende ??
 
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Gill said:
If I was supervising, no water was added. If I was only testing, they could do what they wanted after I finished the test.

Comprende ??
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Why are you suddenly supervising concrete instalation when initially you've been testing concrete for over 30 years."

I'm starting to think you are the fraud here. I don't think you've supervised ****.
 
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Re: Sixth-Grade Girl Has Date in Court After Writing in Wet Cement Read more: http:/

Tucker Case said:
Why are you suddenly supervising concrete instalation when initially you've been testing concrete for over 30 years."

I'm starting to think you are the fraud here. I don't think you've supervised ****.
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Let me say this slowly so you'll understand.....

I've worked with concrete and concrete contractors, as well as most other types of contractors for over 30 years.

Sometimes in the past, my only responsiblity was to test the concrete, on other projects I supervised and inspected the actual installation. Some GCs wanted me for testing only, others wanted more involvement.

Understand now ??? You really haven't worked in construction at all have you, at least in major commercial construction?? :roll:
 
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Tucker Case said:
Why are you suddenly supervising concrete instalation when initially you've been testing concrete for over 30 years."

I'm starting to think you are the fraud here. I don't think you've supervised ****.
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I don't think you've laid any concrete outside of your dads backyard.

Wet Cement isn't marred by a little touch up after it's been laid and some kid writes her name in it.

The problem comes when it's reached that "tacky" state where it takes some effort to put the name in. As long as it hasn't started to actually harden, you can repair most damage with a little work.
 
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