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Oil rises above $90 amid US crude supply drop

UtahBill said:
The states listed in the oil shale area are not known for an abundance of water. The power needed to heat the oil could come from nuclear power plants, or better yet, the residual heat from spent nuclear fuel rods........
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Sounds like a great employment opportunity.
 
USA_1 said:
How many US drilling rigs are sitting idle right now because they have no place to drill?
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You mean because all the permits are where there is no oil. You can not find the oil if you can not drill. So getting permits can be a guessing game. Right now Obama is paying Brazil to drill while stopping us from drilling.
 
USA_1 said:
Sounds like a great employment opportunity.
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not me, I no longer work for a living...I am living large on SS, USN retirement, civilian retirement, and a rich wife....

But it occurs to me that the water needed to extract shale oil does not need to be beer brewing quality water, it can be partially treated sewage effluent from the nearest large cities.
The Palo Verde Nuclear Plant west of Phoenix uses that kind of water from Phoenix for its secondary cooling systems. They have their own water treatment plant there to take the partially treated water and make it clean enough for use in the cooling towers...
 
ptif219 said:
Wrong they have new technology

A Cheaper Way to Draw Oil from Shale - Technology Review
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More recently, companies such as Royal Dutch Shell have developed ways to tap the oil in situ, by drilling boreholes that are thousands of feet deep and feeding into them inch-thick cables that are heated using electrical resistance and that literally cook the surrounding rock. The kerogen liquefies and gradually pools around an extraction well, where the oil-like fluid can easily be pumped to the surface.
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Yeah. That will solve our energy needs.:roll: Still have to heat it to 700 degrees just to release the kerogen from the shale. Then drill another hole and another thousand foot deep hole and on and on..........
Cold fusion will be the answer before oil shale.
 
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USA_1 said:
Yeah. That will solve our energy needs.:roll: Still have to heat it to 700 degrees just to release the kerogen from the shale. Then drill another hole and another thousand foot deep hole and on and on..........
Cold fusion will be the answer before oil shale.
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yeah, gots to get lots of electrical current to make those wires hot.....
I like the idea of dropping a small nuclear bomb down the well to crack the shale....
 
USA_1 said:
Yeah. That will solve our energy needs.:roll: Still have to heat it to 700 degrees just to release the kerogen from the shale. Then drill another hole and another thousand foot deep hole and on and on..........
Cold fusion will be the answer before oil shale.
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No matter what facts are proven yopu are stuck with you wrong ideas
 
ptif219 said:
No matter what facts are proven yopu are stuck with you wrong ideas
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Facts? No. Theories. It will never be economically feasible or even possible to extract the amount of kerogen from oil shale to make up for any portion of our petroleum consumption. It takes huge amounts of energy just to extract if from the rock and then it still has to be refined. It would be easier and cheaper to liquify coal for fuel.
Oil shale is not the answer to your prayers.

Oil Shale Production Will Sap
Electrical Power
To produce oil shale on a scale that is economically viable, massive amounts of electrical power would be necessary—power that would most likely come from coal-fired plants that have been proven to
cause health problems such as heart attacks and asthma and release dangerous global warming
pollution into our air. To produce 200,000 barrels of oil a day, four typical coal generation plants would be
needed.3 Boosters of oil shale often talk about extracting one million barrels of oil per day. At
that rate, upwards of 20 coal-fired power plants would be required, burning more than 50 million
tons of coal annually.
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UtahBill said:
yeah, gots to get lots of electrical current to make those wires hot.....
I like the idea of dropping a small nuclear bomb down the well to crack the shale....
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Don't give the right wing extremists any ideas.
 
USA_1 said:
It's our oil? Really?
Did you know that US oil companies drill all over the world?
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Exactly and they cant drill here but the chinese and brazilians can...cant you see the hypocrisy in all this
 
j-mac said:
Absolutely! Living in FL, it must really piss you off knowing that China is going to drill a mere 90 miles from Key West....Probably slant drill, so they'll be stealing our oil.

j-mac
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Yes it DOES and what really T's me off is that floridians need JOBS so does the entire south and drilling here would create some jobs for americans and lessen our dependence on foriegn oil faster than any other option.
 
lpast said:
Yes it DOES and what really T's me off is that floridians need JOBS so does the entire south and drilling here would create some jobs for americans and lessen our dependence on foriegn oil faster than any other option.
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The quickest option is the one that the president, the senate, the house are ALL afraid to propose.
Raise taxes on transportation fuels enough to discourage us from wasting so much of it. We could cut enough overnight to give the Saudi Royal Family some serious pucker time. Without money coming in to placate the public, the royal family would have to dip into their own obscene wealth to keep the ordinary Saudi people from rising up and taking over the country.
 
USA_1 said:
Facts? No. Theories. It will never be economically feasible or even possible to extract the amount of kerogen from oil shale to make up for any portion of our petroleum consumption. It takes huge amounts of energy just to extract if from the rock and then it still has to be refined. It would be easier and cheaper to liquify coal for fuel.
Oil shale is not the answer to your prayers.
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Read the article. Stop thinking your opinions are the only authority.
 
UtahBill said:
The quickest option is the one that the president, the senate, the house are ALL afraid to propose.
Raise taxes on transportation fuels enough to discourage us from wasting so much of it. We could cut enough overnight to give the Saudi Royal Family some serious pucker time. Without money coming in to placate the public, the royal family would have to dip into their own obscene wealth to keep the ordinary Saudi people from rising up and taking over the country.
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So we can watch inflation rise with the transportation of goods?
 
j-mac said:
Obama is gong after, and putting out of business oil companies without any other energy source at all yet developed to take its place. it is irresponsible, and foolish.
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Oil production is higher now than it was when Obama took office, and it still doesn't change that we have never had single year that we produced more oil than in 1971.

That's the fact Jack!
 
Catawba said:
Oil production is higher now than it was when Obama took office, and it still doesn't change that we have never had single year that we produced more oil than in 1971.

That's the fact Jack!
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We also don't have the refinery capacity. The regulation put forth since then make it almost impossible to build a refinery.
 
ptif219 said:
We also don't have the refinery capacity. The regulation put forth since then make it almost impossible to build a refinery.
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U.S. Refinery Utilization and Capacity

Since our refineries are running at 80 to 90% capacity, we actually do have the capacity. Oil companies are not going to increase capacity. That would only create a surplus and drive prices and profits down. Don't you extremists know anything about economics? You seem to think oil companies want gas at 50 cents a gallon.


"It's now obvious to most Americans that we have a refinery shortage," said petroleum consultant Tim Hamilton, who authored a recent report about oil company price gouging for FTCR. "To point to the environmental laws as the cause simply misses the fact that it was the major oil companies, not the environmental groups, that used the regulatory process to create artificial shortages and limit competition."

The memos from Mobil, Chevron and Texaco show the following.

-- An internal 1996 memorandum from Mobil demonstrates the oil company's successful strategies to keep smaller refiner Powerine from reopening its California refinery. The document makes it clear that much of the hardships created by California's regulations governing refineries came at the urging of the major oil companies and not the environmental organizations blamed by the industry. The other alternative plan discussed in the event Powerine did open the refinery was "....buying all their avails and marketing it ourselves" to insure the lower price fuel didn't get into the market.

-- An internal Chevron memo states; "A senior energy analyst at the recent API convention warned that if the US petroleum industry doesn't reduce its refining capacity it will never see any substantial increase in refinery margins."

-- The Texaco memo disclosed how the industry believed in the mid-1990s that "the most critical factor facing the refining industry on the West Coast is the surplus of refining capacity, and the surplus gasoline production capacity. (The same situation exists for the entire U.S. refining industry.) Supply significantly exceeds demand year-round. This results in very poor refinery margins and very poor refinery financial results. Significant events need to occur to assist in reducing supplies and/or increasing the demand for gasoline. One example of a significant event would be the elimination of mandates for oxygenate addition to gasoline. Given a choice, oxygenate usage would go down, and gasoline supplies would go down accordingly. (Much effort is being exerted to see this happen in the Pacific Northwest.)" As a result of such pressure, Washington State eliminated the ethanol mandate - requiring greater quantities of refined supply to fill the gasoline volume occupied by ethanol.
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USA_1 said:
U.S. Refinery Utilization and Capacity

Since our refineries are running at 80 to 90% capacity, we actually do have the capacity. Oil companies are not going to increase capacity. That would only create a surplus and drive prices and profits down. Don't you extremists know anything about economics? You seem to think oil companies want gas at 50 cents a gallon.
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Why is that> !0% is very small amount.

Truth is because of rgulations it is cheaper to import refined oil annd gas.

Oil Refinery & Refining Stocks Valero Sunoco Frontier Tesoro | InvestorPlace

Imported gasoline is the medium-to-long-term threat to refiners. Export refineries in India, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere are positioned to drive domestic U.S. refineries’ margins even lower, regardless of whether crude oil prices are high or low. These new refineries are massive (up to 600,000 barrels/day), incorporate the latest technology and are geographically situated to feed the exploding markets of China and India.

If U.S. refiners cannot figure out new ways to be competitive, the U.S. will end up importing even more refined products going forward. Overall, prospects for U.S. refiners look very bleak.
 
ptif219 said:
Why is that> !0% is very small amount.

Truth is because of rgulations it is cheaper to import refined oil annd gas.

Oil Refinery & Refining Stocks Valero Sunoco Frontier Tesoro | InvestorPlace

Imported gasoline is the medium-to-long-term threat to refiners. Export refineries in India, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere are positioned to drive domestic U.S. refineries’ margins even lower, regardless of whether crude oil prices are high or low. These new refineries are massive (up to 600,000 barrels/day), incorporate the latest technology and are geographically situated to feed the exploding markets of China and India.

If U.S. refiners cannot figure out new ways to be competitive, the U.S. will end up importing even more refined products going forward. Overall, prospects for U.S. refiners look very bleak.
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Oil companies will not build new refineries to increase supplies. That would be cutting their own throat. You really don't get it, do you? Oil companies intentionally keep supplies tight to maximize profits. It's good business.
Low supply=higher price=higher profits
Surplus=lower price=lower profits
Understand?

Oil is a global market.
 
USA_1 said:
Oil companies will not build new refineries to increase supplies. That would be cutting their own throat. You really don't get it, do you? Oil companies intentionally keep supplies tight to maximize profits. It's good business.
Low supply=higher price=higher profits
Surplus=lower price=lower profits
Understand?

Oil is a global market.
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The reason no building of refineries is all the regulations the environmentalists got the democrats to put in place. It takes years just for the permits

Yuma oil refinery supporters cheer Bush
 
USA_1 said:
Keep believing that BS.
There is nothing that scares big oil more than excess capacity.
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You can make excuses but the truth is democrats with the help of environmentalist have made it almost impossible to build new refineries.
 
ptif219 said:
You can make excuses but the truth is democrats with the help of environmentalist have made it almost impossible to build new refineries.
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Republicans and Big Oil haven't helped either.
 
ptif219 said:
So now you want to side step the facts I put forth
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Facts? I have given you facts and you ignore them. The truth is big oil doesn't want any more refineries. Excess capacity would hurt their bottom line. That's one reason the bought up all the smaller refineries in the last three decades and shut them down.



Memos Show Oil Companies Closed Refineries To Hike Profits

If you believe the oil industry's response to Katrina, you'd think demanding environmentalists are to blame for $3 per gallon gasoline because the tree huggers shut down refineries with tough new rules. President Bush even mimicked the industry excuse by waiving environmental standards in the wake of Katrina. Well, the industry's own internal memos show the intentional shrinking of American refinery capacity in the 1990s was the oil companies' own idea to pump up profits.

Take this internal Texaco strategy memo: "[T]he most critical factor facing the refining industry on the West Coast is the surplus of refining capacity, and the surplus gasoline production capacity. (The same situation exists for the entire U.S. refining industry.) Supply significantly exceeds demand year-round. This results in very poor refinery margins and very poor refinery financial results. Significant events need to occur to assist in reducing supplies and/or increasing the demand for gasoline." The memo went on to discuss a sucessful campaign in Washington State to shrink refined supply by removing other additives in the gasoline that filled gas volume.

Another Mobil memo shows the company promoted tough regulations in California to shut down an independent refiner. A Chevron memo acknowledged the industry wide need to shutter refineries and discussed how refiners were responding in kind.

Large oil companies have for a decade artificially shorted the gasoline market to drive up prices. Oil companies know they can make more money by making less gasoline. Katrina should be a wakeup call to America that the refiners profit widely when they keep the system running on empty. It's time for government to regulate the industry's supply. The fact that President Bush received $2.6 million from the oil industry for his reelection in 2004 should make regulation of the nation's gas supply one of the Democrats' most important talking points.
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http://www.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_cap1_dcu_nus_a.htm
There were 11 US refineries idle in 2010.
 
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