Oil rises above $90 amid US crude supply drop

j-mac · Mar 1, 2011

Ockham said:
All the more reason for government to spend tons of money on "infrastructure" and install charging stations every 20 miles, or require alternative fuel engines running natural gas, ethanol or something else. With the eco-nazi's each deficiency is an opportunity.

If we were to tap our own proven oil, we would have enough for hundreds, possibly a thousand years, and create thousands of jobs. Not to mention that the mere talk that we would do that, would send oil down in trading immediately. So the question is why aren't we?

No matter what pie in the sky green crap the left come up with it is years, if not decades away from any real use in this country. It would seem that as the onion continues to be peeled back, that the short term consequences of their agenda at every turn bring about the weakening of this country. Maybe it is really no more complicated than that.

j-mac

UtahBill · Mar 1, 2011

Ockham said:
All the more reason for government to spend tons of money on "infrastructure" and install charging stations every 20 miles, or require alternative fuel engines running natural gas, ethanol or something else. With the eco-nazi's each deficiency is an opportunity.

You are being facetious, of course. Batteries don't charge quickly, it is best to charge them at home or at work. Gasoline is still the best fuel for cars. And as I said, natural gas is dangerous, you won't be allowed to fill your own tank.

Brazil does well on ethanol, but they have an advantage....sugarcane, lots of land, ideal climate.

Ockham · Mar 1, 2011

whysoserious said:
Aren't you one of those people in the other threads talking about deficit cuts so we can protect the future of this country? How the hell, with all the science out there, can you possibly be against energy efficiency and independence?

It flies against the face of all reasoning.

How is it more efficient, when the issue is used as a political and econimic football to spend more money? Will it cost less to the consumer? It doesn't right now. Will it cost less to operate and maintain? It doesn't right now. So my point is - the timing is very bad to be touting this when we're 14 trillion in the hole and due to go a few more trillion in the hole in the next few years. You don't seem to understand a very simple math issue: We. Have. No. More. Money.

whysoserious · Mar 1, 2011

j-mac said:
If we were to tap our own proven oil, we would have enough for hundreds, possibly a thousand years, and create thousands of jobs. Not to mention that the mere talk that we would do that, would send oil down in trading immediately. So the question is why aren't we?

No matter what pie in the sky green crap the left come up with it is years, if not decades away from any real use in this country. It would seem that as the onion continues to be peeled back, that the short term consequences of their agenda at every turn bring about the weakening of this country. Maybe it is really no more complicated than that.

j-mac

What are you talking about? There is an affordable electric car on the market as we speak. Nuclear energy, hydro-electric, wind, and solar energy are all being used by countries around the world who have the foresight to know that energy independence is good. As far as tapping our own oil, it would not prove as beneficial as you might think.

For instance, relative to the world supply, it would be an extremely small amount coming out of the ground and into the market daily. Therefore, it would have the same extremely small affect on the world's market prices (and we pay the world's market prices). Also, in my opinion it would be better to have those reserves later when things get a bit more dicey. For instance:

WikiLeaks cables: Saudi Arabia cannot pump enough oil to keep a lid on prices | Business | The Guardian
Top World Oil Producers, Exporters, Consumers, and Importers, 2006 — Infoplease.com
The world's top oil producer: Saudi Arabia

The US fears that Saudi Arabia, the world's largest crude oil exporter, may not have enough reserves to prevent oil prices escalating, confidential cables from its embassy in Riyadh show.

The cables, released by WikiLeaks, urge Washington to take seriously a warning from a senior Saudi government oil executive that the kingdom's crude oil reserves may have been overstated by as much as 300bn barrels – nearly 40%.

...

According to the cables, which date between 2007-09, Husseini said Saudi Arabia might reach an output of 12m barrels a day in 10 years but before then – possibly as early as 2012 – global oil production would have hit its highest point. This crunch point is known as "peak oil".

Yes, and as you can see from that chart, we produce the 4th largest amount of oil, use the most oil, and import the most oil. We're like crackheads, basically.

UtahBill · Mar 1, 2011

Ockham said:
How is it more efficient, when the issue is used as a political and econimic football to spend more money? Will it cost less to the consumer? It doesn't right now. Will it cost less to operate and maintain? It doesn't right now. So my point is - the timing is very bad to be touting this when we're 14 trillion in the hole and due to go a few more trillion in the hole in the next few years. You don't seem to understand a very simple math issue: We. Have. No. More. Money.

We have plenty of money, it is just being misspent. There are trillions in IRA and 401k accounts that could be spent to stimulate the green industries if the govt allowed those funds to be withdrawn at a preferred tax rate, like the 15% that the rich pay on capital gains, as long as the money is spent on green related products. Lots of industries have lots of cash on hand, but aren't hiring until they see the recession dead and buried.

UtahBill · Mar 1, 2011

whysoserious said:
What are you talking about? There is an affordable electric car on the market as we speak. Nuclear energy, hydro-electric, wind, and solar energy are all being used by countries around the world who have the foresight to know that energy independence is good. As far as tapping our own oil, it would not prove as beneficial as you might think.

For instance, relative to the world supply, it would be an extremely small amount coming out of the ground and into the market daily. Therefore, it would have the same extremely small affect on the world's market prices (and we pay the world's market prices). Also, in my opinion it would be better to have those reserves later when things get a bit more dicey. For instance:

WikiLeaks cables: Saudi Arabia cannot pump enough oil to keep a lid on prices | Business | The Guardian
Top World Oil Producers, Exporters, Consumers, and Importers, 2006 — Infoplease.com
The world's top oil producer: Saudi Arabia

Yes, and as you can see from that chart, we produce the 4th largest amount of oil, use the most oil, and import the most oil. We're like crackheads, basically.

The issue is oil, not electricity, apples and oranges....
and the price of oil on the market isn't even a big issue. If we need it, we will drill for it, and pay whatever is charged.

whysoserious · Mar 1, 2011

Ockham said:
How is it more efficient, when the issue is used as a political and econimic football to spend more money? Will it cost less to the consumer? It doesn't right now. Will it cost less to operate and maintain? It doesn't right now. So my point is - the timing is very bad to be touting this when we're 14 trillion in the hole and due to go a few more trillion in the hole in the next few years. You don't seem to understand a very simple math issue: We. Have. No. More. Money.

So raise taxes. End the Bush tax cuts, close corporate loopholes. Then, cut reckless spending (maybe check out some of that defense spending) and streamline government. We could also switch over to universal health care, which if you compare our privatized system to others, we'd save about 2,500 a person - but that's neither here nor there.

Look, you are comparing a financial issue to an energy issue. They are not the same, and considering the conservative tactic for any emergency is to cut taxes, I don't see how we can every find our way to energy independence or budget surplus.

What change do you people like? You just want to live in a John Wayne movie, smoke cigars, and shoot indians?

Ockham · Mar 1, 2011

whysoserious said:
So raise taxes. End the Bush tax cuts, close corporate loopholes. Then, cut reckless spending (maybe check out some of that defense spending) and streamline government. We could also switch over to universal health care, which if you compare our privatized system to others, we'd save about 2,500 a person - but that's neither here nor there.

Yes yes... let's just use how expensive alternative fuels are to buy into the Progressive socialist change over of the country! :lamo

whysoserious said:
Look, you are comparing a financial issue to an energy issue. They are not the same, and considering the conservative tactic for any emergency is to cut taxes, I don't see how we can every find our way to energy independence or budget surplus.

They're tightly combined - energy and economics... let's take it in steps shall we? How about we first set a goal to cut discretionary spending, and balance the budget before we jump ahead and start trying for a budget surplus. The progressive liberal in the White House just spent 4 trillion dollars in 2 years on bail outs. I think we need a breather, given the return on jobs, investment, housing, and now inflation starting to kick in... the improvements in our lives aren't quite what was expected.

whysoserious said:
What change do you people like? You just want to live in a John Wayne movie, smoke cigars, and shoot indians?

Actually, I'd like change to be stop spending like drunken socialists on a bender, I'd like fiscal responsibility, I'd like government waste to be culled, earmarks erradicated, healthcare left to the states, the Fed shrunken, the FCC, EPA, Dept. of Ed, and a whole other host of nonsense like it removed from government and those buildings either bull dozed or rented to the private sector. And let's not kid ourselves, there aren't enough indians to shoot and we've shot them enough... but open day on progressive liberals sounds much more fun.

j-mac · Mar 1, 2011

UtahBill said:
And as I said, natural gas is dangerous, you won't be allowed to fill your own tank.

Nonsense. When I started driving truck some 20 years ago, I worked for Schwans home delivery. Crappy job, but their trucks even back then were powered by propane. We filled them ourselves, and I saw really very little difference between them and diesel trucks.

j-mac

j-mac · Mar 1, 2011

UtahBill said:
We have plenty of money, it is just being misspent. There are trillions in IRA and 401k accounts that could be spent to stimulate the green industries if the govt allowed those funds to be withdrawn at a preferred tax rate, like the 15% that the rich pay on capital gains, as long as the money is spent on green related products. Lots of industries have lots of cash on hand, but aren't hiring until they see the recession dead and buried.

Wow! here we go folks. raiding peoples 401K's? How despicable does a liberal have to be to consider stealing peoples own savings to fund their pie in the sky agendas?

j-mac

UtahBill · Mar 1, 2011

Ockham said:
Yes yes... let's just use how expensive alternative fuels are to buy into the Progressive socialist change over of the country! :lamo

They're tightly combined - energy and economics... let's take it in steps shall we? How about we first set a goal to cut discretionary spending, and balance the budget before we jump ahead and start trying for a budget surplus. The progressive liberal in the White House just spent 4 trillion dollars in 2 years on bail outs. I think we need a breather, given the return on jobs, investment, housing, and now inflation starting to kick in... the improvements in our lives aren't quite what was expected.

What change do you people like? You just want to live in a John Wayne movie, smoke cigars, and shoot indians?

[/QUOTE]

Your bias is too obvious, if you want to be taken seriously, stop using the liberal progressive socialist buzz words. It makes you look like a shill for Glenn Beck...

j-mac · Mar 1, 2011

whysoserious said:
There is an affordable electric car on the market as we speak.

Affordable at some $30K per unit? That's debatable. But, regardless, how many have been sold? Why aren't they taking off?

j-mac

UtahBill · Mar 1, 2011

j-mac said:
Wow! here we go folks. raiding peoples 401K's? How despicable does a liberal have to be to consider stealing peoples own savings to fund their pie in the sky agendas?

j-mac

It should be obvious to the most casual observer that I meant for the owners of said accounts to withdraw their money at preferred rates. I don't see how any reasonable person can read it any other way....
an apology is requested....

Ockham · Mar 1, 2011

UtahBill said:
Your bias is too obvious, if you want to be taken seriously, stop using the liberal progressive socialist buzz words. It makes you look like a shill for Glenn Beck...

Yeah, not interested in investing into a part of the liberal progressive wet dream... like I take you seriously either? Silly...

The Prof · Mar 1, 2011

whysoserious said:
So raise taxes. End the Bush tax cuts, close corporate loopholes.

First Read - Obama signs tax cut bill into law

UtahBill · Mar 1, 2011

Ockham said:
Yeah, not interested in investing into a part of the liberal progressive wet dream... like I take you seriously either? Silly...

so you aren't here to contribute to the OP, just sling accusations about liberals? Is that an admission that you know nothing about the topic?

UtahBill · Mar 1, 2011

Ockham said:
Yeah, not interested in investing into a part of the liberal progressive wet dream... like I take you seriously either? Silly...

Conservatives who won't conserve..and won't invest in alternatives..and bring nothing to the table for disucssion.
Idiots.....

Ockham · Mar 1, 2011

UtahBill said:
so you aren't here to contribute to the OP, just sling accusations about liberals? Is that an admission that you know nothing about the topic?

I've already contributed - so I chalk up your ignorant statement to not reading my previous posts. And when someone takes an obvious shot at conservatives by saying we want to all be like John Wayne, smoke cigars and shoot indians, I feel the need to respond to that.

Enter your enigmatic statements and jumping in to the rescue. Any other questions or just more queries on my motivations, which I'm pointing out, also are not on topic of the OP or contributing to the topic at hand. That's a little sprinkle of your hypocrisy there... care to go on about me and not the topic?

Ockham · Mar 1, 2011

UtahBill said:
Conservatives who won't conserve..and won't invest in alternatives..and bring nothing to the table for disucssion.
Idiots.....

Priorities... those who don't set them, fail miserably, and bring nothing but cheap rhetoric in the guise of moderation.

UtahBill · Mar 1, 2011

Ockham said:
I've already contributed - so I chalk up your ignorant statement to not reading my previous posts. And when someone takes an obvious shot at conservatives by saying we want to all be like John Wayne, smoke cigars and shoot indians, I feel the need to respond to that.

Enter your enigmatic statements and jumping in to the rescue. Any other questions or just more queries on my motivations, which I'm pointing out, also are not on topic of the OP or contributing to the topic at hand. That's a little sprinkle of your hypocrisy there... care to go on about me and not the topic?

show where I quoted him, came to his rescue.....what about my statements are enigmatic?
I have considerable knowledge on the topic and other energy related issues. It is what I have done since 1966....

UtahBill · Mar 1, 2011

Ockham said:
Priorities... those who don't set them, fail miserably, and bring nothing but cheap rhetoric in the guise of moderation.

I agree, priorities need to be set. But you bring plenty of cheap rhetoric yourself with your political labeing of people who disagree with you. You are starting to sound like NP, who calls those who disagree with him his left wing friend....

Ockham · Mar 1, 2011

UtahBill said:
show where I quoted him, came to his rescue.....what about my statements are enigmatic?
I have considerable knowledge on the topic and other energy related issues. It is what I have done since 1966....

Then you know better than anyone else the cost needed to convert even 20% of our current gasoline/diesel vehicles to electric, and the shortcomings of the battery packs used to power vehicles. Given the country's economic state, as well as the economic state of Europe - investment of that magnitude at this time is irresponsible. When our spending, deficts and econmic spending has been reversed, then I can see investment of alternatives engery sources using government money. Don't get me wrong, if private corporations or private money wants to do what you want, I'm all for it as they do it in the market place.

Priorities. Given your extensive career - you must understand that fossile fuels for the next 20 years at least, will dominate in the United States and that's a very very conservative time frame.

Ockham · Mar 1, 2011

UtahBill said:
I agree, priorities need to be set. But you bring plenty of cheap rhetoric yourself with your political labeing of people who disagree with you. You are starting to sound like NP, who calls those who disagree with him his left wing friend....

Worry less about who I sound like and discuss the topic... when cheap rhetoric is thrown at me, I throw it back as it litters my computer screen. Got it?

UtahBill · Mar 1, 2011

Ockham said:
Then you know better than anyone else the cost needed to convert even 20% of our current gasoline/diesel vehicles to electric, and the shortcomings of the battery packs used to power vehicles. Given the country's economic state, as well as the economic state of Europe - investment of that magnitude at this time is irresponsible. When our spending, deficts and econmic spending has been reversed, then I can see investment of alternatives engery sources using government money. Don't get me wrong, if private corporations or private money wants to do what you want, I'm all for it as they do it in the market place.

Priorities. Given your extensive career - you must understand that fossile fuels for the next 20 years at least, will dominate in the United States and that's a very very conservative time frame.

Yes, I do, where did I say different?

UtahBill · Mar 1, 2011

Ockham said:
Worry less about who I sound like and discuss the topic... when cheap rhetoric is thrown at me, I throw it back as it litters my computer screen. Got it?

Discuss the topic and drop your political posturing, it clutters my screen, and yours.....got it?

Are you trying to sound arrogant, on purpose, or is it just a character flaw?

Oil rises above $90 amid US crude supply drop

j-mac

UtahBill

Ockham

Noblesse oblige

whysoserious

UtahBill

UtahBill

whysoserious

Ockham

Noblesse oblige

j-mac

j-mac

UtahBill

j-mac

UtahBill

Ockham

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The Prof

UtahBill

UtahBill

Ockham

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Ockham

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UtahBill

UtahBill

Ockham

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Ockham

Noblesse oblige

UtahBill

UtahBill