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"Dream Act" immigration bill blocked in Senate

haymarket said:
I was wondering - what does it say about somebody when the reality of the truth is what makes them look bad?
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Who died and left liberals in charge of the truth? how arrogant.


j-mac
 
chevydriver1123 said:
Gee we always hear from Buchanites that illegals are draining welfare rolls. How about instead of bitching about welare, social security, medicade, medicare we actually do the right thing and get rid of these blatantly unconstitutional programs.
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Yeah, figured you were talking about those. No they are not unconstitutional. And if you did get rid of them just what exactly do you think would happen?
 
haymarket said:
I was wondering - what does it say about somebody when the reality of the truth is what makes them look bad? How can the Dems simply asking for or getting a vote make anybody look bad in and of itself? Would not the actions of the people themselves in fighting that vote or in casting their vote in a certain way be the factor that make them look bad?
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Depends on the situation really. If the Dems already knew how the votes would go then yeah..they could be seen as setting things up to look bad for the Reps. Is that what happened? Possibly, but without proof it is just conjecture and isn't really worth talking about until/if it becomes fact.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Depends on the situation really. If the Dems already knew how the votes would go then yeah..they could be seen as setting things up to look bad for the Reps. Is that what happened? Possibly, but without proof it is just conjecture and isn't really worth talking about until/if it becomes fact.
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That would be only true if the Dems actually DID NOT WANT the law they were trying to get the Republicans to vote against in order to for it not pass but claiming they did want it to pass. Do things like that really happen?

If the republicans look bad to certain groups it is because their actual position was bad. You take a position and you take the consequences of that position. I think that is what several GOP women called "manning up".
 
haymarket said:
That would be only true if the Dems actually DID NOT WANT the law they were trying to get the Republicans to vote against in order to for it not pass but claiming they did want it to pass. Do things like that really happen?
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Not necessarily. Dems/Reps put forth a bill that they want done but knows the other side will try and block it. If it gets passed then GREAT! If not then "oh well...at least we accomplished part of our goal." Sometimes something is better than nothing.

haymarket said:
If the republicans look bad to certain groups it is because their actual position was bad. You take a position and you take the consequences of that position. I think that is what several GOP women called "manning up".
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Very true..but what exactly was in the Dream Act (or any other on the surface wanted item)? That is something that hyper-partisan hacks will always try and gloss over. What was in it? Is there something in there that would be bad? And that was the reason that a particular party voted against it?

Point is that it is not hard to write a bill that the general populace may want, but hide something in it that the party wants but they know the other side is against. When looking to the future sometimes it is better to loose battles in order to make the other side look bad so that the people will be on your side. It's actually quite an old tactic that was used long before the US ever was even thought of.
 
j-mac said:
Nope, no conspiracy to it, other than coincidental. But, liberals in the far left that just got told to hit the road, are just childish enough to do something like that.

Look, demo's have no interest in Hispanics or any other group in the US other than what they can exploit for votes.


j-mac
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I am a demo and I have interest in every group. I want to make the country the best it can be for all groups.

Note also, I am a demo and I opposed DREAM in it's current form.
 
haymarket said:
If the republicans look bad to certain groups it is because their actual position was bad. You take a position and you take the consequences of that position. I think that is what several GOP women called "manning up".
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That's exactly right. In their faces. Stir the cauldron. No peace.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Yeah, figured you were talking about those. No they are not unconstitutional. And if you did get rid of them just what exactly do you think would happen?
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Where in our constitution does it say that the federal government has the right to establish a welfare and health care system? What should happen is that people start to realize that depending on the government is nothing but a horrible idea
 
haymarket said:
I was wondering - what does it say about somebody when the reality of the truth is what makes them look bad? How can the Dems simply asking for or getting a vote make anybody look bad in and of itself? Would not the actions of the people themselves in fighting that vote or in casting their vote in a certain way be the factor that make them look bad?
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Since when are bills sent to a vote without so much as five minutes of deliberation?
 
Redress said:
Yes, it's all part of our vast left wing conspiracy to make republicans look bad. That's it.
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What wasn't it brought to the floor for debate?

Is that how Dems want to do this now?
 
Redress said:
I am a demo and I have interest in every group. I want to make the country the best it can be for all groups.

Note also, I am a demo and I opposed DREAM in it's current form.
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Well, then I have to give you a thanks, however just because you opposed it as you say, "in its current form" I have no doubt that you would support it if the things you don't like were changed.

Another amnesty is NOT what we need right now. Although I am torn of those that served in our armed forces. If the bill could be cleaned up to let them in but not their extended family, then I would consider it.


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
I am torn of those that served in our armed forces. If the bill could be cleaned up to let them in but not their extended family, then I would consider it.


j-mac
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Illegal aliens in the military should be allowed to complete their terms of service, and then they should be immediately deported to their home countries. That's pretty harsh isn't it? That's what happens when illegal aliens overwhelm and radicalize the locals.
 
If a Republican controlled House and a thinly held Democratic Senate were able to agree on immigration reform, it would be great thing, an important advance for our country. Here's hoping that Obama can make it happen.
 
Whovian said:
wasn't immigration reform supposed to be a priority in his first year? Then again this year? Now next year?
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Yup. I have absolutely no problem with Obama rubbing salt into the wound. It will contribute to the balkanization of the country. It will result in further radicalization.
 
j-mac said:
Well, then I have to give you a thanks, however just because you opposed it as you say, "in its current form" I have no doubt that you would support it if the things you don't like were changed.

Another amnesty is NOT what we need right now. Although I am torn of those that served in our armed forces. If the bill could be cleaned up to let them in but not their extended family, then I would consider it.


j-mac
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So you could support it in another form as well. And I agree, it should not bring in their whole family.
 
Chappy said:
If a Republican controlled House and a thinly held Democratic Senate were able to agree on immigration reform, it would be great thing, an important advance for our country. Here's hoping that Obama can make it happen.
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The new Republican controlled House will drive a stake through the heart of the Dream Act. There is no "our country" any more.
 
Redress said:
So you could support it in another form as well. And I agree, it should not bring in their whole family.
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The whole family is coming whether you want them to or not. Mexicans have the right to travel the entire earth without anyone being able to object.
 
Dear President Obama:

Please reintroduce the Dream Act in the new Congress. Please give us an opportunity to rub your nose in dog poop.
 
Erod said:
I don't get this. Mexico has devolved into a lawless chaos of territorial warlords and drug cartels, amidst what has been a poverty-stricken wasteland completely devoid of opportunity. Here, they find law, peace, opportunity, and decency.

Where does this pride come from in the motherland?
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Well, America has devolved into a fat, lazy, ignorant, arrogant, politically deadlocked dying beast. Where does this pride come from in the motherland?
 
Albert Di Salvo said:
Your country is broke, poorly educated, semi-skilled, and is financially unstable. Your country will be like Venezuela with a rich white ruling class and a poor brown underclass.

In California where you and I live the middle class is disappearing. That's because you and those you support have run this state into the ground. That's what you intend for the whole country.
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Where are you from, Albert? All this hate on Europe, and all this glorification of America, I had guessed you were American. But apparently not. Where, then?
 
Le Marteau said:
Well, America has devolved into a fat, lazy, ignorant, arrogant, politically deadlocked dying beast. Where does this pride come from in the motherland?
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America is already dead. What remains is not worthy of being called America. It is inhabited by pavlovian dogs.
 
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