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DADT cloture passes

So is the biggest complaint at this point that the troops didn't get a direct vote on the issue?
 
Then the person I had heard state such was incorrect. That is, of course, if you are correct.

I'm in the military and was out to sea for both the 2000 election and the 2004 election. I sent an absentee ballot in for both. I got to vote. And I voted in 2008. What the military does not get to vote for is direct federal issues, just like almost every other US citizen, because we are a representative republic. We do not vote on federal issues directly, we elect Congressmen and a President to decide those issues for us, and place limits on them with the Constitution and the SCOTUS. There probably is room for improvement in some of this, but overall, it works. Especially in a case like this where the will of the people is done.
 
I'm reading a bit between the lines. He said he didn't envisoin one, as in the Marines are disciplined enough that they don't need one.

He is correct then. There is no need for a specific gag order. The standard policy is quite sufficient. Military personnel should be allowed to voice their opinion on the issue as long as they make it clear it is their personal opinion.
 
Hey, has anybody walked into a law firm and seen a guy in a pink tutu and fishnets?

Do you really think there aren't any gay lawyers? Of course there are. They don't behave that way at work because they're professionals and they would get fired for doing so.

Why do people assume gay people would do this in the military? DADT's repeal means they'll be able to serve and not have to lie about who they are, it doesn't magically make them exempt from all of the other codes of conduct. A straight soldier wearing a tutu on the base would be disciplined, where on earth does anybody get the idea that this wouldn't also happen to a gay soldier? A soldier caught screwing a (female) fellow soldier on the Colonel's desk is not going to get away with it, why would a gay soldier?

Our soldiers are professionals. If they are unable to act like professionals, they'll be disciplined. Gay or straight. If you think otherwise, you obviously don't have as much respect for our men and women in uniform as I do.

I thought that was funny too.. I know there are strict uniform guidelines.. and even in prison and in jail, they are expected to wear a standard uniform and properly. No cut off prison shorts or cut off belly shirts.. lol
 
I think that all these liberals that are so happy now should be drafted into the navy and have to serve on destroyers and subs (no floating cities like Redres did with all the comforts of home) spending 90 days at time at sea..........I bet you that they would not be so happy about the issue if that happened............
 
A lot of gay men are masculine and not flamboyant... I don't honestly see a lot of the more feminine homosexuals joining the military. I have known a few gay men to join the military, and they weren't anymore "girly" than hetro men.

For a long time women serving was really controversial, and arguments were made about cohesion, weakness, distractions, etc.. If women can serve in the military without running around with their lower math skills, and not being more worried about their tans, manicures, pms, menstrual cycles, and hair buns than their unit, then why can't gay men serve properly too?

I have also noticed that most of the people against this are only complaining about gay men, not women.. Are you ok with lesbians serving? What about them getting flamboyant?

I have no problem with women serving. I do not think it wise to repeal DADT. Furthermore, when you state they will not "be flamboyant," it means nothing when I observe the trend in Britain. When you state "what about(?)" in your last sentence, it makes me suspect that you know they will do such. Look around. Look at America. Look at the posts on the internet. It would be unwise to think they will not be flamboyant. They will, and this leads to the problem that it will affect unit cohesion, among other examples.

Do I already anticipate your response?

Close. But Bill and I have our differences.

We should each sit down to a cup of earl grey and discuss it sometime.
 
I think that all these liberals that are so happy now should be drafted into the navy and have to serve on destroyers and subs (no floating cities like Redres did with all the comforts of home) spending 90 days at time at sea..........I bet you that they would not be so happy about the issue if that happened............

If they would have released the news that they were changing subs to allow women to serve aboard NP, I would very likely still be in the Navy. So I'd do it. Would that make you feel better NP? Of course, I'm very happy about this but I'm really not a liberal overall.
 
Next toasters and dogs will want to join the military and serve openly... :2mad:
 
I think that all these liberals that are so happy now should be drafted into the navy and have to serve on destroyers and subs (no floating cities like Redres did with all the comforts of home) spending 90 days at time at sea..........I bet you that they would not be so happy about the issue if that happened............

You have a weird opinion of carriers. Our big advantage was higher overheads. We where bigger, but had much more people and much bigger equipment stashed on board. Did you guys not have a small gym and a gedunk onboard? That is about as close as we got to convenience.

Edit: oh., and I did 2 cruises both over 200 days, not that 90 day softy stuff.
 
I think that all these liberals that are so happy now should be drafted into the navy and have to serve on destroyers and subs (no floating cities like Redres did with all the comforts of home) spending 90 days at time at sea..........I bet you that they would not be so happy about the issue if that happened............

And I think all those who opposed it should be forced to move to the Castro District and forced to carry Gucci handbags. And this has absolutely no relevance to repeal, it is just funny to think about.
 
I have no problem with women serving. I do not think it wise to repeal DADT. Furthermore, when you state they will not "be flamboyant," it means nothing when I observe the trend in Britain. When you state "what about(?)" in your last sentence, it makes me suspect that you know they will do such. Look around. Look at America. Look at the posts on the internet. It would be unwise to think they will not be flamboyant. They will, and this leads to the problem that it will affect unit cohesion, among other examples.

Do I already anticipate your response?



We should each sit down to a cup of earl grey and discuss it sometime.

so you don't have a problem with gay women serving.. just gay men?
 
I think that all these liberals that are so happy now should be drafted into the navy and have to serve on destroyers and subs (no floating cities like Redres did with all the comforts of home) spending 90 days at time at sea..........I bet you that they would not be so happy about the issue if that happened............

I'd actually be totally fine with doing that, but the thing is I am joining the Marines after college. :D
 
I have no problem with women serving. I do not think it wise to repeal DADT. Furthermore, when you state they will not "be flamboyant," it means nothing when I observe the trend in Britain. When you state "what about(?)" in your last sentence, it makes me suspect that you know they will do such. Look around. Look at America. Look at the posts on the internet. It would be unwise to think they will not be flamboyant. They will, and this leads to the problem that it will affect unit cohesion, among other examples.

Why are examples of the british military being overrun by flamboyant gays always hearsay?
 
Did I say that?

Clarify... which is it?

You're complaining about gay men going all stereotypical flamboyant in the service.. but when gay women do it, they are usually "butch" and "manly"

So is that ok? A tough "butch" can serve, but a "girly man" can't?

Don't get mad.. I am not putting words in your mouth. I just want clarification, and it seems like you are kind of stereotyping here so I am doing it too
 
"Radical Conservative"??? Please explain this. It looks like an oxymoron. In my experience "Conservative" is synonymous with "reactionary". I would be very pleased to discover some new approach to understanding that I wasn't aware of.

Actually there are many different levels of conservative and liberal. A conservative and a reactionary are two very different things. A conservative just wants to maintain the status quo while a reactionary wants to take their country back to a different time or enact backwards policies that create an atmosphere that never previously existed.
 
I guess we'll have to stop kicking out linguistic specialists that we desperately need to decode chatter due to the death of DADT.

92% of the military stated that they knew gay members in their units and saw no detrimental changes.

This has nothing to do with defense.

If you don't like gays as Navy Pride doesn't, that's fine. Just don't hide it under some bull**** reason like defense.
 
Personally, as I have always said, I don't hate homosexuals. Religiously, I disagree with their lifestyle. Furthermore, I don't wish to see soldiers being "forced" to act as homosexuals, be threatened with sensivity training, or be subjucated to such influence against their will. Meaning, being forced to accept it. The soldiers should be allowed to not shower openly with homosexual men; not using absolutes, one would be unwise to not understand possibilities.
 
In his defense, Lesbians are way hotter than male gays.

Some lesbians are really cute with their little haircuts.. of course some have long hair and are very feminine too. I liked the lesbian that was just on America's Next Top Model.. she had such a sweet personality.
 
You have a weird opinion of carriers. Our big advantage was higher overheads. We where bigger, but had much more people and much bigger equipment stashed on board. Did you guys not have a small gym and a gedunk onboard? That is about as close as we got to convenience.

Edit: oh., and I did 2 cruises both over 200 days, not that 90 day softy stuff.

Redress although never stationed on one I have spent time on carriers and you have all the comforts of home.........Most of the time you don't even know your underway...You should ride a destroyer in a hurricane off of Cape hatteras N.C............You would thank your lucky stars you served on a carrier in a squadron
 
Why are examples of the british military being overrun by flamboyant gays always hearsay?

Who is stating that it is hearsay?

Clarify... which is it?

You're complaining about gay men going all stereotypical flamboyant in the service.. but when gay women do it, they are usually "butch" and "manly"

So is that ok? A tough "butch" can serve, but a "girly man" can't?

Don't get mad.. I am not putting words in your mouth. I just want clarification, and it seems like you are kind of stereotyping here so I am doing it too

You seem confused. According to my Christian faith, I dislike homosexuality---the concept, not the people. Clarified?
 
Why are examples of the british military being overrun by flamboyant gays always hearsay?

IDK.. but some of their common expressions sound kind of gay at first like calling their male friends "mate." lol.. or saying "cheers"

My brother has a good friend from Newcastle, and he is so stuck in the 80s in comparison to the USA. All the music they listen to together is kind of funny..
 
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