Juarez counts 3,000th homicide of 2010

digsbe said:

All we have to do is force heavy fines and no jail time on drug abusers. Have them pay for the war on drugs. I would be for mandatory urine tests and blood tests on violators. What should we do? Legalizing and pretend that the problem will go away?

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The War on Drugs does not work. Digsbe they've been at this for a long time, and all it's done is fuel a cycle of violence and fear.

Either find something new, or abandon the idea all together, failed policies and wasting money is never the answer.

I may not agree that heavy drugs should be legalised, hell I actually oppose it, but as long as we're locking up pot smokers for having a joint, somethings gotta give.

Oh and fine them? What happens when they don't have the money, which the majority of them wouldn't. You confiscate their property if they have any? That makes them destitute, falling into more drugs and crime.

I don't see it as a viable solution.

digsbe said:

It's crazy thinking that I know so many people who have used illegal drugs that are not in jail. We take it too lightly legally and culturally.

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digsbe said:

All we have to do is force heavy fines and no jail time on drug abusers.

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which one is it that you are really advocating?

Jetboogieman said:

The War on Drugs does not work. Digsbe they've been at this for a long time, and all it's done is fuel a cycle of violence and fear.

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The problem though is that I feel it hasn't been efficient due to a lack of enforcement and cultural acceptance. It can work if we pursue it instead of sitting back and being lax with drug enforcement and viewing drug use as something acceptable socially.

Either find something new, or abandon the idea all together, failed policies and wasting money is never the answer.

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Like I said. We need to change the punishment for drug use. I am for remove jail time for most offenses and substituting it for hefty fines that will pay for the war on drugs.

I may not agree that heavy drugs should be legalised, hell I actually oppose it, but as long as we're locking up pot smokers for having a joint, somethings gotta give.

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I can't agree with legalizing pot. It's a harmful substance and I feel we should legalize anymore mind altering things. We already have alcohol and that's bad enough. Smoking a joint may not be as bad as heroine or others (heck, I have family that smokes pot or used to), but it shouldn't be legalized.

Oh and fine them? What happens when they don't have the money, which the majority of them wouldn't. You confiscate their property if they have any? That makes them destitute, falling into more drugs and crime.

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If they have nothing how can they pay for the drugs? I would say if they can't pay it they should be forced into public labor to earn what they were sentenced to pay.

I don't see it as a viable solution.

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I think it would be a very good solution to remove jail time on most drug offenses and impose fines. This removes the prison burden and the cost of the war on drugs. I feel that police should actually search for drug abusers and go on more sting operations. Cops should be watched heavily as some are corrupt and sell what they confiscate (or use it themselves). I feel that employers should give random urine tests for drugs, and if employees are found having drugs in their system they should be charged or at least investigated. We also need to take social initiatives to stop the common acceptance of drug use. I think it can work, and I don't think legalizing drugs will help solve anything and only create a bigger problem.

marduc said:

which one is it that you are really advocating?

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Which laws or which drugs?

Jetboogieman said:

I've seen first hand the drug problem in Canada Harshaw, in some places its bad, really bad. But lets look at the facts here.

Viable Market in Canada for Drugs 35 million people.

Viable Market in United States for drugs 400 million people.

Whoops, big difference and we have the added advantage of not being directly on the border.

The Trifecta of illegal immigration, supported by criminals, human trafficking and drug trafficking of course is gonna create crap.

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It's 300 million, and the whole population (of either country) is not the "viable market." I personally am not in that market, never have been, never will be. The vast majority are not.

The point is, it's not exclusively demand in the United States which brings drugs over our border. There's a decent market north of us, too.

Harshaw said:

It's 300 million, and the whole population (of either country) is not the "viable market." I personally am not in that market, never have been, never will be. The vast majority are not.

The point is, it's not exclusively demand in the United States which brings drugs over our border. There's a decent market north of us, too.

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Call me a liar for 100 million :2razz:

Yeah but far less of the hard****. Most of the weed we get ain't from mexico either, good ole fashion home grown canadian **** BC bud an all that.

Why is it drug legalization advocates seem to always say we should surrender the war on drugs because it has failed to end drug use, but never say we should abandon the war on pverty because it hasn't ended poverty?

Things that make me go huuuum?

Jetboogieman said:

Call me a liar for 100 million :2razz:

Yeah but far less of the hard****. Most of the weed we get ain't from mexico either, good ole fashion home grown canadian **** BC bud an all that.

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Canada's kids look like they are using drugs at comparable rates to the US kids...

Drug and Alcohol Use Statistics - Health Canada

II. America’s Drug Abuse Profile

Just because your population is far less than that of America, doesn't mean that the problem is any less as a percentage of your population.

j-mac

digsbe said:

I would be in favor of taking the troops from Iraq and sending them to the border with Mexico. The cost is justified. We are part of Mexico's problem because we allow for the problem (drugs) to benefit in our country.



Yep. Enforce the laws and take a tough stance. It's crazy thinking that I know so many people who have used illegal drugs that are not in jail. We take it too lightly legally and culturally.

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The war on drugs is a complete failure and not because of lack of enforcement. It is a failure because of the cost in money and the cost in lives.

Legalize it and tax it, then you remove the market right from under the cartels and then they will have nothing. Prohibition hasn't worked.

TheNextEra said:

The war on drugs is a complete failure and not because of lack of enforcement. It is a failure because of the cost in money and the cost in lives.

Legalize it and tax it, then you remove the market right from under the cartels and then they will have nothing. Prohibition hasn't worked.

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Surprise, but I agree with you on this to an extent. Drugs like Pot, would work that way, but harder drugs like Cocaine, and Heroin probably wouldn't see much of a change in criminality. And it would degrade our society.

Interesting though, I wonder if the argument you make about the WoD, can be applied to the also costly with no real result, War on Poverty?

j-mac

snilloctjc said:

Why is it drug legalization advocates seem to always say we should surrender the war on drugs because it has failed to end drug use, but never say we should abandon the war on pverty because it hasn't ended poverty?

Things that make me go huuuum?

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Really like who? If it were up to me I would nuke the War on Drugs and all federal entitlement programs.

Red Crow said:

Janet Napolitano is the one responsible for the mess. She said that the Arizona border has been more secure now than ever. Remember her statement??

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Her statement tells you a lot about her.

She is from Arizona and knows that is not true so why would she say that?

She says what she is told to say regardless of the truth.

snilloctjc said:

Why is it drug legalization advocates seem to always say we should surrender the war on drugs because it has failed to end drug use, but never say we should abandon the war on pverty because it hasn't ended poverty?

Things that make me go huuuum?

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both wars were idiotic and have cost us too much liberty and way too much government

j-mac said:

Canada's kids look like they are using drugs at comparable rates to the US kids...

Drug and Alcohol Use Statistics - Health Canada

II. America’s Drug Abuse Profile

Just because your population is far less than that of America, doesn't mean that the problem is any less as a percentage of your population.

j-mac

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I never argued we weren't all on drugs, we have the highest rate of marijuana use per capita in the developed world.

All I'm arguing is more people = more viable addicts = equals more product being shipped to that country/area = more gang and drug related crime.

Hence the united states with a bigger population.

Jetboogieman said:

I never argued we weren't all on drugs, we have the highest rate of marijuana use per capita in the developed world.

All I'm arguing is more people = more viable addicts = equals more product being shipped to that country/area = more gang and drug related crime.

Hence the united states with a bigger population.

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Yeah, ok....But that doesn't solve the problem of more terrorists waiting in Canada trying to enter the US.....



j-mac