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House approves repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell'(edited)

Re: DADT repeal still has a shot!

apdst said:
Ok, but the question must be asked: when you were espousing that the military was all for abolishing DADT, you left the previously posted information out of your argument; claiming that all the brass and most soldiers were for it.


Why?
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I never claimed that all of the brass supported repeal. The majority of the military said that DADT could be repealed without significant trouble(paraphrase). The SecDef and Chairman JCS, and CinC are for repeal as are many other officers. I have never said otherwise.
 
Re: DADT repeal still has a shot!

Alright Senator Reid, time to step and do as you said. I would really like to see this repealed before the new year.
 
Re: DADT repeal still has a shot!

apdst said:
Yeah, but, but, the will of the people...

What about the will of our service members? Does their opinion count?

67% of the Marines that serve in combat arms units oppose the repeal. 58% of Army soldiers that serve in combat arms units oppose the repeal. The Chiefs of Staff for the Army and the Air Force and the Commandant of Marine Corps oppose it. You've been telling us all this time that the military, including the big brass, all support the repeal.

Surely, ya'll haven't ben dishonest about the real numbers?
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Maybe you should be honest about the numbers. How many of those marines and soldiers that have actually served alongside gays want the repeal? The number is very different when you are talking about people who actually have worked alongside gay marines and soldiers.

It is still about fear of the unknown. They don't know what it will be like working with openly gay men and/or women, so they don't want it to happen. Humans are resistant to change, especially change that contradicts things that they have been taught/told.
 
Re: DADT repeal still has a shot!

roguenuke said:
And the Dems not pushing this through, would make them lose votes. Especially when there is at least one Repub. (Collins) who is pushing it. Do you think Reid would vote against this?
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The head dem is Reid and it is not on his docket according to the link I posted........It also has to pass through committee....The votes are not there..........There are demcrats who have voted against it...........Webb from Va. and Nelson from Nebraska come to mind..............The only very slim hope you have is if Reid calls back the senate for the holidays and that has never happened in our history and sure as hell won't happen for something as unimportant as DADT..........
 
Re: DADT repeal still has a shot!

roguenuke said:
Maybe you should be honest about the numbers. How many of those marines and soldiers that have actually served alongside gays want the repeal? The number is very different when you are talking about people who actually have worked alongside gay marines and soldiers.

It is still about fear of the unknown. They don't know what it will be like working with openly gay men and/or women, so they don't want it to happen. Humans are resistant to change, especially change that contradicts things that they have been taught/told.
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Again, it depends how the question is posed.............
 
Re: DADT repeal still has a shot!

soccerboy22 said:
Alright Senator Reid, time to step and do as you said. I would really like to see this repealed before the new year.
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for your side you sure as hell had better hope that happens because if it doesn't the bill is toast next year.............
 
Re: DADT repeal still has a shot!

Navy Pride said:
Again, it depends how the question is posed.............
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I gave you the exact survey and asked you to explain which questions were asked incorrectly, but you chose not to so I think you are full of it.
 
Re: DADT repeal still has a shot!

CriticalThought said:
I gave you the exact survey and asked you to explain which questions were asked incorrectly, but you chose not to so I think you are full of it.
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Accoeding to the sailors I taled to on the NIMITZ the questions asked to the sailors was how do we implement DADT not if we should implement it.....I did not see the survey but that is what John McCain said to..........Regardless we are way past that point now...The point is will the Senate can take the bill up and finish it by Friday and I don't see any well in hell that can happen..........
 
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Re: DADT repeal still has a shot!

Navy Pride said:
Accoeding to the sailors I taled to on the NIMITZ the questions asked to the sailors was how do we implement DADT not if we should implement it.....I did not see the survey but that is what John McCain said to..........Regardless we are way past that point now...The point is will the Senate can take the bill up and finish it by Friday and I don't see any well in hell that can happen..........
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The survey is widely available online. It was very detailed. It did not ask "how should we implement DADT," it largely focused on the servicemembers experiences with homosexuals and perceptions about what serving with open homosexuals might do. It even asked specific questions about how they might feel if they had to share shower facilities with openly gay people.

The overwhelming response was either neutral or positive towards open homosexuals being allowed to serve, especially among those who had actually served with homosexuals already. (something like 90% of people who had actual experience with it had no problem or said it was positive)

Read the survey yourself.

In any case, the Senate can meet on weekends, you know.
 
Re: DADT repeal still has a shot!

Navy Pride said:
...how do we implement DADT not if we should implement it...
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We have never given a referendum to troops on a military policy. Why do you want to start with this policy?
 
Re: DADT repeal still has a shot!

CriticalThought said:
We have never given a referendum to troops on a military policy. Why do you want to start with this policy?
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Because when they signed their contract with the gov. it never included gays serving openly..........Aside from the privacy issues (and I am speaking about Navy ships) there are a lot of guys in the service who are religeous and believe homosexuality is wrong..........Like I said and no offense to you but if that would have been the case when I enlisted I would have never joined the Navy which I always wanted to do............
 
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Re: DADT repeal still has a shot!

Navy Pride said:
Because when they signed their contract with the gov. it never included gays serving openly..........Aside from the privacy issues (and I am speaking about Navy ships) there are a lot of guys in the service who are religeous and believe homosexuality is wrong..........
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It never included language that gays might not serve openly. This argument is not going to go anywhere Navy. A court would laugh it out.
 
Re: DADT repeal still has a shot!

Redress said:
It never included language that gays might not serve openly. This argument is not going to go anywhere Navy. A court would laugh it out.
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When I joined Redress you had to sign a statement that you were not gay and had no gay tendencies..........
 
Re: DADT repeal still has a shot!

Navy Pride said:
When I joined Redress you had to sign a statement that you were not gay and had no gay tendencies..........
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Almost no one left has had to sign such a statement, and it is not part of the actual service contract.
 
Re: DADT repeal still has a shot!

Redress said:
It never included language that gays might not serve openly. This argument is not going to go anywhere Navy. A court would laugh it out.
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I truly believe that any career enlisted man who enlisted and the gov. changed the contract in the middle of the stream be offered a way to resign and to be compeensated for it because he or she is giving up a lucrative retirement they worked hard for......
 
Re: DADT repeal still has a shot!

Redress said:
Almost no one left has had to sign such a statement, and it is not part of the actual service contract.
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That is because DADT is in effect..........
 
Re: DADT repeal still has a shot!

Navy Pride said:
That is because DADT is in effect..........
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Correct. Your point is? You brought up signing a statement that you where not gay, it has not been done in 17 years.
 
Re: DADT repeal still has a shot!

Navy Pride said:
I truly believe that any career enlisted man who enlisted and the gov. changed the contract in the middle of the stream be offered a way to resign and to be compeensated for it because he or she is giving up a lucrative retirement they worked hard for......
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The contract didn't change. Other people were offered different contracts.
 
Re: DADT repeal still has a shot!

Navy Pride said:
I truly believe that any career enlisted man who enlisted and the gov. changed the contract in the middle of the stream be offered a way to resign and to be compeensated for it because he or she is giving up a lucrative retirement they worked hard for......
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Not going to happen, should not happen, there is zero reason for it to happen. You do not sign up to serve when things are how you want them, you sign up to serve, period.
 
Re: DADT repeal still has a shot!

Redress said:
Correct. Your point is? You brought up signing a statement that you where not gay, it has not been done in 17 years.
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Nothing in the contract says that you are excused from duty if a stray gay person gets thru the screening process.
 
Re: DADT repeal still has a shot!

UtahBill said:
Nothing in the contract says that you are excused from duty if a stray gay person gets thru the screening process.
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Even if it happens in May?
 
Re: DADT repeal still has a shot!

Redress said:
Correct. Your point is? You brought up signing a statement that you where not gay, it has not been done in 17 years.
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Sometimes I wish it was still in effect...........When gay guys made unwanted advances against straights they were court martialed and discharged with a discharge other then honorable...........
 
Re: DADT repeal still has a shot!

Navy Pride said:
Sometimes I wish it was still in effect...........When gay guys made unwanted advances against straights they were court martialed and discharged with a discharge other then honorable...........
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Actually, a gay making an unwanted advance can result in an other than honorable. That would not be a DADT discharge, but a sexual harassment one.
 
Re: DADT repeal still has a shot!

Deuce said:
The contract didn't change. Other people were offered different contracts.
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You don't get it my left wing friend...Since 1993 gays have had to keep quiet about the sexual preference...People signed up under that law being in effect and now the gov is trying to change their contract with the people.........
 
Re: DADT repeal still has a shot!

Redress said:
Actually, a gay making an unwanted advance can result in an other than honorable. That would not be a DADT discharge, but a sexual harassment one.
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Most gays that are outted or come forward and admit the are gay to their CO are disccharged with honorable discharges..........
 
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