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Muslim woman teacher sues U.S. school after being denied three weeks unpaid leave to

Re: Muslim woman teacher sues U.S. school after being denied three weeks unpaid leave

OscarB63 said:
why is the date such a big deal? they have changed other parts of the ritual for the sake of convenience.
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What other parts? Elaborate them for us

Why is the date such a big deal? ... Really? It's part of the ritual and has been like that for a very long time
 
Re: Muslim woman teacher sues U.S. school after being denied three weeks unpaid leave

Laila said:
I thought she did :confused:

Did I misread the article?
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No, that is what she did. Then filed a lawsuit. But I think the lawsuit is BS. I don't care what people's religious obligations are; if they conflict too severely with your work obligations you either keep your job or quit. Those are the choices.
 
Re: Muslim woman teacher sues U.S. school after being denied three weeks unpaid leave

Ikari said:
No, that is what she did. Then filed a lawsuit. But I think the lawsuit is BS. I don't care what people's religious obligations are; if they conflict too severely with your work obligations you either keep your job or quit. Those are the choices.
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Yeah and she picked the right choice.
I don't understand what she is suing about but she did offer unpaid leave so meh :shrug:
 
Re: Muslim woman teacher sues U.S. school after being denied three weeks unpaid leave

Laila said:
Yeah and she picked the right choice.
I don't understand what she is suing about but she did offer unpaid leave so meh :shrug:
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She offered, and it was denied. End case. If she felt she made the right choice, then that's that. She should move on with her life. Not sit there and bitch and whine about having to quit so she could do her little theist thing. Companies and school districts and the like shouldn't be forced to support someone's theism. That's a personal choice with consequences you have to accept yourself.
 
Re: Muslim woman teacher sues U.S. school after being denied three weeks unpaid leave

Laila said:
What other parts? Elaborate them for us

Why is the date such a big deal? ... Really? It's part of the ritual and has been like that for a very long time
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no longer required to kiss the black stone, you can simply point at it as you circle.

no longer required to make animal sacrifice, you can appoint someone to do it for you

no longer throw stones at the pillars, they have been replaced with long stone walls with catch basins in the interest of safety.


I was under the impression that a ritual was a ritual. if you can change some parts of it for the sake of convenience/safety, why not all parts?
 
Re: Muslim woman teacher sues U.S. school after being denied three weeks unpaid leave

OscarB63 said:
no longer required to kiss the black stone, you can simply point at it as you circle.

no longer required to make animal sacrifice, you can appoint someone to do it for you

no longer throw stones at the pillars, they have been replaced with long stone walls with catch basins in the interest of safety.

I was under the impression that a ritual was a ritual. if you can change some parts of it for the sake of convenience/safety, why not all parts?
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I did not even know the last one and whether it is true. You do still perform the ritual stone throwing, I do know that.

The logistic of kissing the stone is probably why. People fight to kiss it and end up dying especially the old or those who bring children
When I go, I'm going to do all three. I'm old school. Screw someone else killing my animal for me :cool:

You can't change the date, that is set in stone because Eid is set in stone.

The Hajj formally begins on the eighth day of Dhul-Hijjah (the 12th month of the Islamic lunar year). It is during this month that the annual pilgrimage to Mecca occurs. Prophet Muhamamad himself sanctioned the first ten days of this month as a special time for devotion. All of the rituals cumulate on Eid < More complex but short and simple version
 
Re: Muslim woman teacher sues U.S. school after being denied three weeks unpaid leave

Laila said:
I did not even know the last one and whether it is true. You do still perform the ritual stone throwing, I do know that.

The logistic of kissing the stone is probably why. People fight to kiss it and end up dying especially the old or those who bring children
When I go, I'm going to do all three. I'm old school. Screw someone else killing my animal for me :cool:

You can't change the date, that is set in stone because Eid is set in stone.

The Hajj formally begins on the eighth day of Dhul-Hijjah (the 12th month of the Islamic lunar year). It is during this month that the annual pilgrimage to Mecca occurs. Prophet Muhamamad himself sanctioned the first ten days of this month as a special time for devotion. All of the rituals cumulate on Eid < More complex but short and simple version
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I still don't see why, if you can change the kissing of the stone due to the logistics/safety issues, you can't change the date due to the logistics of people getting there from all over the globe. the world is a much bigger palce than when Muhammamad sanctioned the first ten days.

in the grand scheme of things...one would hope that Allah would be understanding about it.
 
Re: Muslim woman teacher sues U.S. school after being denied three weeks unpaid leave

OscarB63 said:
I still don't see why, if you can change the kissing of the stone due to the logistics/safety issues, you can't change the date due to the logistics of people getting there from all over the globe. the world is a much bigger palce than when Muhammamad sanctioned the first ten days.

in the grand scheme of things...one would hope that Allah would be understanding about it.
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You can't change the date.

It would be like asking Christians to change Christmas on a whim or whatever other holiday they hold as important.

Edit: Or Easter!
 
Re: Muslim woman teacher sues U.S. school after being denied three weeks unpaid leave

Laila said:
You can't change the date.

It would be like asking Christians to change Christmas on a whim or whatever other holiday they hold as important.

Edit: Or Easter!
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not the same thing. you can celebrate christmas or easter anywhere.
 
Re: Muslim woman teacher sues U.S. school after being denied three weeks unpaid leave

OscarB63 said:
not the same thing. you can celebrate christmas or easter anywhere.
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Well ... yeah true. But it's the closest example I can think of in regards to dates
Its not so much celebrating it as much as the timing that is the issue and that cannot be changed
 
Re: Muslim woman teacher sues U.S. school after being denied three weeks unpaid leave

Laila said:
Well ... yeah true. But it's the closest example I can think of in regards to dates
Its not so much celebrating it as much as the timing that is the issue and that cannot be changed
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I was in Iraq last year for christmas. my wife decorated the house and left everything in place until I returned home in June. We celebrated Christmas on the 22 of June and God didn't strike me dead.
 
Re: Muslim woman teacher sues U.S. school after being denied three weeks unpaid leave

Laila said:
You can't change the date.

It would be like asking Christians to change Christmas on a whim or whatever other holiday they hold as important.

Edit: Or Easter!
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In regards to Christmas it's not like Christ was born on Dec. 25 anyway. All evidence points to him being born in the summer.
 
Re: Muslim woman teacher sues U.S. school after being denied three weeks unpaid leave

Laila said:
I thought she did :confused:

Did I misread the article?
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Fine.

So why the lawsuit?
 
Re: Muslim woman teacher sues U.S. school after being denied three weeks unpaid leave

I really have trouble supporting the teacher in this one. She gets a couple months off every year, so why couldn't she do it then?
 
Re: Muslim woman teacher sues U.S. school after being denied three weeks unpaid leave

molten_dragon said:
She gets a couple months off every year, so why couldn't she do it then?
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This has already been answered. You can't do Hajj on a "summer holiday" time off, it happens on a specific time of the year
 
Re: Muslim woman teacher sues U.S. school after being denied three weeks unpaid leave

The issue is whether or not she was denied a request for leave due to religious and/or racial discrimination, which may be illegal relative to the civil rights act.
To me it's completely absurd. FMLA provides for up to 12 weeks unpaid leave that has to be legally granted, but that's for family/medical reasons only. notice you can't just choose not to have medical issues that require leave, and arguably you won't sanely choose to have medical issues. You can't control if your parents have major medical issues suddenly, etc.
You can choose your religion, and choose to observe or not observe certain aspects of it. But more importantly, what differentiates religious validity? Nothing. Anyone can make up any nonsense religion, come up with some goofy-ass "requirements", and then suddenly they all need to be granted leave? Administrators are supposed to be able to evaluate an infinite number of religions, their validity, or fear a law suit? My vote is, no way. Hopefully everyone else they have granted leave recently is covered under FMLA or for maternity/paternity.
 
Re: Muslim woman teacher sues U.S. school after being denied three weeks unpaid leave

Laila said:
The Hajj formally begins on the eighth day of Dhul-Hijjah (the 12th month of the Islamic lunar year). It is during this month that the annual pilgrimage to Mecca occurs. Prophet Muhamamad himself sanctioned the first ten days of this month as a special time for devotion. All of the rituals cumulate on Eid < More complex but short and simple version
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Just curious... if the Hajj is the first ten days of the month, why did she need 21 days off?
 
Re: Muslim woman teacher sues U.S. school after being denied three weeks unpaid leave

she has the rest of her life to make the pilgrimage
the employer needs to accomplish its mission
it appears her being unavailable would make achieving that mission more difficult
the employer has a legitimate basis not to authorize her request for three weeks of unpaid leave

the employer is screwed if it can be shown other teachers are being provide extended leave for non-essential activities. if that can be found, the the lady may have a valid case. otherwise she must abide by the employer's decision
 
Re: Muslim woman teacher sues U.S. school after being denied three weeks unpaid leave

Personally, I'm glad she sued. The country is hypersensitive to this idiocy right now, and it's serving the needed purpose in these ridiculous times.
 
Re: Muslim woman teacher sues U.S. school after being denied three weeks unpaid leave

Erod said:
Personally, I'm glad she sued. The country is hypersensitive to this idiocy right now, and it's serving the needed purpose in these ridiculous times.
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We should be clear, although it may be Ms. Khan suing as well, this story says that Holder's Justice Dept are the ones bringing the case.

j-mac
 
Re: Muslim woman teacher sues U.S. school after being denied three weeks unpaid leave

j-mac said:
We should be clear, although it may be Ms. Khan suing as well, this story says that Holder's Justice Dept are the ones bringing the case.

j-mac
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Even better. So the guy that dismissed the black panther case, and tried to move the KSM trial to ground zero, is the same guy that is defending this nonsense?

For those that don't already have the picture in the frame, this should do it.
 
Re: Muslim woman teacher sues U.S. school after being denied three weeks unpaid leave

Erod said:
Even better. So the guy that dismissed the black panther case, and tried to move the KSM trial to ground zero, is the same guy that is defending this nonsense?

For those that don't already have the picture in the frame, this should do it.
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Absolutely, that was what caught my eye.

j-mac
 
Re: Muslim woman teacher sues U.S. school after being denied three weeks unpaid leave

Jetboogieman said:
I think the issue will be whether she was denied the leave purely based on the subject of her request. Whereas if she had requested the leave for something else, would she have been granted it... I highly doubt any school board would be dumb enough to ramp up the religious tension here but she's a teacher, and in order for a school to provide consistency of teaching to the students, having a teacher disappear for 3 weeks never helps.
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I think a comparable situation would be having a teacher on unpaid leave for 3 weeks to volunteer in Haiti in the wake of a disaster. If you allow one, you should probably allow the other. If not, then there is no reason that companies should accomodate this.
 
Re: Muslim woman teacher sues U.S. school after being denied three weeks unpaid leave

justabubba said:
she has the rest of her life to make the pilgrimage
the employer needs to accomplish its mission
it appears her being unavailable would make achieving that mission more difficult
the employer has a legitimate basis not to authorize her request for three weeks of unpaid leave

the employer is screwed if it can be shown other teachers are being provide extended leave for non-essential activities. if that can be found, the the lady may have a valid case. otherwise she must abide by the employer's decision
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very well stated.
 
Re: Muslim woman teacher sues U.S. school after being denied three weeks unpaid leave

Catz Part Deux said:
I think a comparable situation would be having a teacher on unpaid leave for 3 weeks to volunteer in Haiti in the wake of a disaster. If you allow one, you should probably allow the other. If not, then there is no reason that companies should accomodate this.
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I think a more comparable situation would be that Catholics be allowed 40 days off for Lent. Would that be acceptable?


j-mac
 
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