• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

November Deficit Highest on Record

Conservative said:
The stimulus plan was to create jobs, not bail out unions and pay for existing state jobs. No jobs created, great job!
Click to expand...

The $787 billion economic stimulus package was approved by Congress in February, 2009. The plan was to jumpstart economic growth, and save between 900,000 - 2.3 million jobs. The economic stimulus bill allocated funds as follows:
$288 billion in tax cuts.
$224 billion in extended unemployment benefits, education and health care.
$275 billion for job creation using federal contracts, grants and loans.
Click to expand...

Economic Stimulus Bill - Economic Stimulus Package - Obama Economic Stimulus Package

As you can see, the stated purpose of the stimulus package was to cut taxes, fund unemployment benefits, and save and create jobs. It both saved existing jobs and created new ones.
 
reefedjib said:
A large amount of money was spent and jobs were preserved and created. Without that money injected into the economy, jobs which were preserved would have been lost and new jobs would not have been created.
Click to expand...

You mean according to Obama's fuzzy math
 
ptif219 said:
You mean according to Obama's fuzzy math
Click to expand...

No. The money was injected into the economy. It shows up in the GDP calculation. It was spent to preserve and create jobs. It is a fact.
 
haymarket said:
Bill Clinton plus 22 million jobs with higher tax rates.

Bush --- with lower tax rates...... forgetaboutit.

CASE CLOSED.
Click to expand...

You forget about Clinton cutting the military in half. Of course we all know Clinton was responsible for the dot com bubble that created those jobs RIGHT!!!!
 
reefedjib said:
Economic Stimulus Bill - Economic Stimulus Package - Obama Economic Stimulus Package

As you can see, the stated purpose of the stimulus package was to cut taxes, fund unemployment benefits, and save and create jobs. It both saved existing jobs and created new ones.
Click to expand...

Then explain to me why BLS says that there have been a net job loss of 4.3 million? Stop buying the Obama rhetoric and get the facts from the non partisan sources. Obama will make a fool out of you.
 
reefedjib said:
No. The money was injected into the economy. It shows up in the GDP calculation. It was spent to preserve and create jobs. It is a fact.
Click to expand...

Still believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and Tooth Fairy too? I cannot believe that in the face of actual numbers from non partisan sites you still buy what you are told?
 
reefedjib said:
No. The money was injected into the economy. It shows up in the GDP calculation. It was spent to preserve and create jobs. It is a fact.
Click to expand...

The money was payback to unions not to save jobs.
 
reefedjib said:
You do realize that States have to pay for their pensions, for all the workers who put in 20 years, and that the costs are rising sucking budget and that those were not made illegal, don't you?
Click to expand...

Your point is well taken. But here in Illinois those obligations are treated somewhere between theory and fantasy. We are billions in the red on those pension funds.

(did i say Illinois? more accurately the disaster is the making of the politicians in our little Chicago machine....)



.
 
Conservative said:
Then explain to me why BLS says that there have been a net job loss of 4.3 million? Stop buying the Obama rhetoric and get the facts from the non partisan sources. Obama will make a fool out of you.
Click to expand...

The economy would have lost many more without the stimulus. If the economy loses 6 million jobs and the stimulus saves and creates 2 million jobs, the total job loss would be 4 million jobs.
 
reefedjib said:
The economy would have lost many more without the stimulus. If the economy loses 6 million jobs and the stimulus saves and creates 2 million jobs, the total job loss would be 4 million jobs.
Click to expand...

Seems you have very low expectations. The fact remains this wasn't how the stimulus was sold or its intent. Suggest you go back and research the purpose of the stimulus and then tell me where those "shovel" ready jobs were? You bought a bill of goods and continue to buy the rhetoric. How many lies do you have to be told before you stop believing the rhetoric? Unemployment was supposed to not exceed 8%. How has that prediction worked out?
 
reefedjib said:
The economy would have lost many more without the stimulus. If the economy loses 6 million jobs and the stimulus saves and creates 2 million jobs, the total job loss would be 4 million jobs.
Click to expand...

You keep talking jobs created but will not look at the link I posted that says the Obama math was wrong. If the math is wrong we can believe nothing they say so that means you are wrong to.
 
ptif219 said:
According to Obama?

Scrutiny Over Obama Stimulus Jobs Mounting - ABC News
Click to expand...

Conservative said:
Still believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and Tooth Fairy too? I cannot believe that in the face of actual numbers from non partisan sites you still buy what you are told?
Click to expand...

ptif219 said:
The money was payback to unions not to save jobs.
Click to expand...

Ok, I will say that that was the stated purpose of the stimulus and I think it did have an effect, but I also believe they are lying about the numbers (as ptif219 points out) and am very disappointed in the amount of money spent with respect to the number of jobs actually saved or created. It is no surprise that the money was predominantly steered to Democratic constituencies.

It is one hell of a pickle. Economy down, real high unemployment, must pay unemployment insurance to keep people off the street, right? Lending frozen, investment down, housing a disaster with high foreclosure rate and languid new and used home markets, demand dropping, CC debt rising, super high deficit, states struggling to balance.... What combination of things needs to happen to restart growth?
 
Conservative said:
Seems you have very low expectations. The fact remains this wasn't how the stimulus was sold or its intent. Suggest you go back and research the purpose of the stimulus and then tell me where those "shovel" ready jobs were? You bought a bill of goods and continue to buy the rhetoric. How many lies do you have to be told before you stop believing the rhetoric? Unemployment was supposed to not exceed 8%. How has that prediction worked out?
Click to expand...

ptif219 said:
You keep talking jobs created but will not look at the link I posted that says the Obama math was wrong. If the math is wrong we can believe nothing they say so that means you are wrong to.
Click to expand...

I think they made promises they couldn't guarantee. They have no ****ing idea how bad it would get. I don't think economists or the folks on Wall Street ****ing know. It is all a big guess. So Obama sold the stimulus with economists' numbers that turned out bogus, plus the fact that all the money he asked for really didn't create that many jobs and ameliorate a much worse employment situation than expected. Fine. Now what?
 
reefedjib said:
What combination of things needs to happen to restart growth?
Click to expand...

We need a new industry. Housing got us out of the 2001 recession. Massive defense spending got us out of some of the recent weaker ones. The internet was responsible for huge growth. The problem is we don't have another industry.

But that said, that alone won't do it. What ignorant hacks fail to realize is that the last two decades of growth are artificial. Take away the growth fed by over use of leverage and we are facing the chance of real low growth. A real ugly fact many people either can't see or refuse to is that we are really in for slow growth for the next decade barring the resumption of over use of leverage.
 
reefedjib said:
Ok, I will say that that was the stated purpose of the stimulus and I think it did have an effect, but I also believe they are lying about the numbers (as ptif219 points out) and am very disappointed in the amount of money spent with respect to the number of jobs actually saved or created. It is no surprise that the money was predominantly steered to Democratic constituencies.

It is one hell of a pickle. Economy down, real high unemployment, must pay unemployment insurance to keep people off the street, right? Lending frozen, investment down, housing a disaster with high foreclosure rate and languid new and used home markets, demand dropping, CC debt rising, super high deficit, states struggling to balance.... What combination of things needs to happen to restart growth?
Click to expand...

A pro growth, pro business economic policy would turn this around quickly. Had Obama put the amount he spent on a stimulus into tax cuts and cut spending we wouldn't be in this mess today.
 
Reef:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/bias-media/87592-real-bias-media-case-study-dishonesty-new-level.html

The article in question basically proves the stimulus replaced the decline of state and local spending causing aggregate demand to slightly increase. What hacks either don't realize or dishonestly cover up is without the increase in federal spending to replace the drop in state, net aggregate demand would have dropped like a rock. The stimulus IMO failed to stimulate. What the stimulus did as the article shows was prevent a stomach wrenching decline in GDP.
 
Conservative said:
A pro growth, pro business economic policy would turn this around quickly
Click to expand...

Which is exceptionally vague and tells us nothing of any value whatsoever. Furthermore, if weren't a giant hack, you'd notice that Obama has signed into law exceptionally pro-business laws that make Bush's pro-business legislation look cute.
 
Conservative said:
A pro growth, pro business economic policy would turn this around quickly. Had Obama put the amount he spent on a stimulus into tax cuts and cut spending we wouldn't be in this mess today.
Click to expand...

sadly, the facts do not support this boast. When Clinton had higher tax rates, the economy created 22 million new jobs and we had a government surplus. We lowered taxes under Bush and ended up with virtually no job creation for the decade and record deficits. The historical record simply does not support your claims. In fact, it screams loudly against them.
 
reefedjib said:
Ok, I will say that that was the stated purpose of the stimulus and I think it did have an effect, but I also believe they are lying about the numbers (as ptif219 points out) and am very disappointed in the amount of money spent with respect to the number of jobs actually saved or created. It is no surprise that the money was predominantly steered to Democratic constituencies.

It is one hell of a pickle. Economy down, real high unemployment, must pay unemployment insurance to keep people off the street, right? Lending frozen, investment down, housing a disaster with high foreclosure rate and languid new and used home markets, demand dropping, CC debt rising, super high deficit, states struggling to balance.... What combination of things needs to happen to restart growth?
Click to expand...

With all the lies we do not know what the job growth was if any. It had little if any affect on unemployment or the economy unless of course you believe the lies of Obama
 
haymarket said:
sadly, the facts do not support this boast. When Clinton had higher tax rates, the economy created 22 million new jobs and we had a government surplus. We lowered taxes under Bush and ended up with virtually no job creation for the decade and record deficits. The historical record simply does not support your claims. In fact, it screams loudly against them.
Click to expand...

When Clinton took office he implemented that high tax rate and that gave us a GOP Congress in 1994 elections. The GOP Congress then began repealing the Clinton tax increases and that stimulated economic growth. Keep re-writing history and hijacking this thread which is about the Nov. Deficit being the highest on record. Don't blame you from wanting to divert from the mess Obama has created.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom