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November Deficit Highest on Record

obvious Child said:
We need a new industry. Housing got us out of the 2001 recession. Massive defense spending got us out of some of the recent weaker ones. The internet was responsible for huge growth. The problem is we don't have another industry.

But that said, that alone won't do it. What ignorant hacks fail to realize is that the last two decades of growth are artificial. Take away the growth fed by over use of leverage and we are facing the chance of real low growth. A real ugly fact many people either can't see or refuse to is that we are really in for slow growth for the next decade barring the resumption of over use of leverage.
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I have heard that we are in for slow growth and recovery over the next decade or more. A new industry sounds promising, although I am not convinced in the least that government regulated green technology is the answer. Energy wise, a resurgence in building nuclear power plants could only help, if we loosen the regulation.

Could you explain what you mean by leverage and how the over use of leverage fuels growth?
 
obvious Child said:
Which is exceptionally vague and tells us nothing of any value whatsoever. Furthermore, if weren't a giant hack, you'd notice that Obama has signed into law exceptionally pro-business laws that make Bush's pro-business legislation look cute.
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Calling me a hack doesn't help your argument nor does it have anything to do with the thread topic.
 
haymarket said:
sadly, the facts do not support this boast. When Clinton had higher tax rates, the economy created 22 million new jobs and we had a government surplus.
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Clinton also had the internet. And wasn't waging two occupations at the same time. You cannot ignore those impacts.

We lowered taxes under Bush and ended up with virtually no job creation for the decade and record deficits.
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But Bush also saw the rise of China and India as real economy powers capable of mass outsourcing of US workers. Don't be like Conservative who dumbs down arguments to the point where they have no value whatsoever. Economics is never that simple. There are always a huge number of factors that go into the outcome.

The historical record simply does not support your claims.
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The historical record is far more complex then you or him make it out to be.
 
reefedjib said:
I have heard that we are in for slow growth and recovery over the next decade or more.
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That's what my company is projecting. I won't give you the name, but the firm is huge.

A new industry sounds promising, although I am not convinced in the least that government regulated green technology is the answer. Energy wise, a resurgence in building nuclear power plants could only help, if we loosen the regulation.
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Nuclear is too slow. It takes on average 10 years to get a plant running and it's arguably the most subsidized power source we have. Furthermore, the US doesn't have technological superiority over others such as Russia, France and Japan. As for renewable, I think that's not it as the US is at least a decade behind China and at least 15 behind the Dutch. While we'll eventually catch up even if it means reverse engineering their products, it won't be the industry to get us out this rut.

The rising in housing basically pulled the country out of 2001 recession. That's partially why California is so screwed. The boom in housing caused California to go from a deep recession to economic growth quickly. Florida as well. There just isn't a replacement industry right now. To say the least, I'm pessimistic overall.

Could you explain what you mean by leverage and how the over use of leverage fuels growth?
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Leverage is a fancy way of utilizing debt. Debt can be a useful tool. Anyone who's bought a house knows that. And companies can fuel research that produces blockbusters via debt. Lehman brothers generated large returns partially because they relied heavily upon 3 month commercial paper. Debt basically allows over consumption, which isn't inherently bad if that consumption can in turn generate returns for the debt user. The problem is when debt is used for over consumption that doesn't bear fruit down the line.
 
Conservative said:
Calling me a hack doesn't help your argument nor does it have anything to do with the thread topic.
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It merely points out the obvious inherent nature of your personality in refusing to acknowledge anything that runs contrary to your opinions, even if they are solid facts.

You again demonstrate you have no solutions.
 
obvious Child said:
It merely points out the obvious inherent nature of your personality in refusing to acknowledge anything that runs contrary to your opinions, even if they are solid facts.

You again demonstrate you have no solutions.
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uh is this board the source of solutions and what is your solution?
 
obvious Child said:
It merely points out the obvious inherent nature of your personality in refusing to acknowledge anything that runs contrary to your opinions, even if they are solid facts.

You again demonstrate you have no solutions.
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After spending 35 years in the business world and retiring 7 years ago I did my time creating solutions. Now all I can do is watch people like you screw things up because of an arrogance that doesn't allow you to learn from others. Good luck, you are going to need it. One of these days you may even wake up and realize that you didn't know it all when you thought you did.
 
clinton and obama claim THEY have the solution
 
TurtleDude said:
uh is this board the source of solutions and what is your solution?
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First we must recognize that this recession is different. Something that Conservative constantly cowardly runs away from. You cannot use tools meant for other types of recessions on leverage/financial recessions. The Thai tried that in the Asian Crisis and it failed. South Korea tried that and it failed.

The difference between me and Conservative is that I understand that financial/leverage recessions are fundamentally different animals. There is basically one tool to get us out quick. And I've already discussed this several times on this forum.

Direct government lending. But that in itself creates bigger problems down the line.
 
Conservative said:
After spending 35 years in the business world and retiring 7 years ago I did my time creating solutions.
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Which are always vague and tell us nothing. There's a difference between telling and showing. You go about with circumsantial evidence claiming you did this or that, but when challenged on technical grounds, you fail and go off on tantrums. There is nothing you've shown here to suggest you are even old enough to hold an adult job.

Now all I can do is watch people like you screw things up because of an arrogance that doesn't allow you to learn from others. Good luck, you are going to need it. One of these days you may even wake up and realize that you didn't know it all when you thought you did.
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Once again, no solutions. Just tantrums. I said it here, and it comes out there.

As for arrogance, I'm not the one who said "I don't care about linear regression." Someone who spent 35 years in the Business World knows that data is everything. And data needs to be processed to be any of use. For you to come and say you don't care about processing data into usable forms shows me you are functionally lying.
 
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haymarket said:
sadly, the facts do not support this boast. When Clinton had higher tax rates, the economy created 22 million new jobs and we had a government surplus. We lowered taxes under Bush and ended up with virtually no job creation for the decade and record deficits. The historical record simply does not support your claims. In fact, it screams loudly against them.
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You do seem consumed with a false correlation/causation model. The surge in jobs during the Clinton era tracks heavily with the dot-com bubble and had little to do with any Clinton tax rates....


.
 
obvious Child said:
Direct government lending. But that in itself creates bigger problems down the line.
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Tell us a little more about that! How would that work? What are the bigger problems it causes down the line (run a higher deficit, balloon the debt, devalue the dollar, struggle with selling govt bonds and T-bills?)?
 
solutions...

and insults

LOL!
 
The Prof said:
solutions...

and insults

LOL!
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The way I see it, Democrats want to toss a flotation device to a drowning person, Republicans want to tell them that they should have learned how the swim.
 
obama's opinion matters more than yours
 
Deuce said:
You read that last sentence, right?

The high deficits for 2009/2010 were expected due to stimulus spending. You're right that deficits will go even higher with the tax cut extensions, though. Just don't tell that to Republicans, though, because they'll tell you that tax cuts don't increase deficits.
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Yeah, spending doesn't create deficits, tax cuts do.

You'll have to get over the facts when taxes are cut, revenues rise... and we haven't cut any taxes.

.
 
Conservative said:
When Clinton took office he implemented that high tax rate and that gave us a GOP Congress in 1994 elections. The GOP Congress then began repealing the Clinton tax increases and that stimulated economic growth. Keep re-writing history and hijacking this thread which is about the Nov. Deficit being the highest on record. Don't blame you from wanting to divert from the mess Obama has created.
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The income tax rates under Clinton and the accompanying 22 million new jobs stand out like a shining beacon compared to the decreased rates under Bush and the virtual job standstill in that decade. A successful coach or manager attempts to duplicate success by studying what somebody else did to get there. Go back to the Clinton tax rates as scheduled as it worked beautifully then. The Bush decreases were an abysmal failure that not only failed to create jobs but they saddled the nation with a mountain of debt. The economic collapse started by Bush continued under Obama and we are not turned around as of yet. A return to a successful tax policy is a prudent and smart move for America.

This is the another example where the conservative worshipers or ideology before everything else doom the rest of us before their altar. I don't give a damn about your belief system. Give me pragmatic results that can be demonstrated just like the Clinton 22 million job creations with higher tax rates.
 
pbrauer said:
How about letting ALL the Bush tax cuts to sunset?
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Translation; let the DIMS raise taxes. If this happens, do you honestly think the DIMS and PUBS will apply those extra funds to the deficit and debt? If so, I have some marvelous property about 600 yards from shore in the Gulf I will sell you.
 
haymarket said:
The income tax rates under Clinton and the accompanying 22 million new jobs stand out like a shining beacon compared to the decreased rates under Bush and the virtual job standstill in that decade. A successful coach or manager attempts to duplicate success by studying what somebody else did to get there. Go back to the Clinton tax rates as scheduled as it worked beautifully then. The Bush decreases were an abysmal failure that not only failed to create jobs but they saddled the nation with a mountain of debt. The economic collapse started by Bush continued under Obama and we are not turned around as of yet. A return to a successful tax policy is a prudent and smart move for America.

This is the another example where the conservative worshipers or ideology before everything else doom the rest of us before their altar. I don't give a damn about your belief system. Give me pragmatic results that can be demonstrated just like the Clinton 22 million job creations with higher tax rates.
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Obama is doing what Clinton did, he got more republicans elected.
 
haymarket said:
The income tax rates under Clinton and the accompanying 22 million new jobs stand out like a shining beacon compared to the decreased rates under Bush and the virtual job standstill in that decade. A successful coach or manager attempts to duplicate success by studying what somebody else did to get there. Go back to the Clinton tax rates as scheduled as it worked beautifully then. The Bush decreases were an abysmal failure that not only failed to create jobs but they saddled the nation with a mountain of debt. The economic collapse started by Bush continued under Obama and we are not turned around as of yet. A return to a successful tax policy is a prudent and smart move for America.

This is the another example where the conservative worshipers or ideology before everything else doom the rest of us before their altar. I don't give a damn about your belief system. Give me pragmatic results that can be demonstrated just like the Clinton 22 million job creations with higher tax rates.
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Didn't realize that this thread was about Clinton and Bush nor did I realize that we had someone here who totally ignores history. anyone that believes the Clinton tax increases gave us 22 million jobs is absolutely brainwashed as BLS doesn't show Clinton creating 22 million jobs nor does logic and common sense support that contention.
 
haymarket said:
The income tax rates under Clinton and the accompanying 22 million new jobs stand out like a shining beacon compared to the decreased rates under Bush and the virtual job standstill in that decade. A successful coach or manager attempts to duplicate success by studying what somebody else did to get there. Go back to the Clinton tax rates as scheduled as it worked beautifully then. The Bush decreases were an abysmal failure that not only failed to create jobs but they saddled the nation with a mountain of debt. The economic collapse started by Bush continued under Obama and we are not turned around as of yet. A return to a successful tax policy is a prudent and smart move for America.

This is the another example where the conservative worshipers or ideology before everything else doom the rest of us before their altar. I don't give a damn about your belief system. Give me pragmatic results that can be demonstrated just like the Clinton 22 million job creations with higher tax rates.
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What about spending cuts? You never address the fact Clinton cut the military almost in half.
 
haymarket said:
The income tax rates under Clinton and the accompanying 22 million new jobs stand out like a shining beacon compared to the decreased rates under Bush and the virtual job standstill in that decade. A successful coach or manager attempts to duplicate success by studying what somebody else did to get there. Go back to the Clinton tax rates as scheduled as it worked beautifully then. The Bush decreases were an abysmal failure that not only failed to create jobs but they saddled the nation with a mountain of debt. The economic collapse started by Bush continued under Obama and we are not turned around as of yet. A return to a successful tax policy is a prudent and smart move for America.

This is the another example where the conservative worshipers or ideology before everything else doom the rest of us before their altar. I don't give a damn about your belief system. Give me pragmatic results that can be demonstrated just like the Clinton 22 million job creations with higher tax rates.
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Looks like a 4 million job creation error according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Please explain why the data from BLS isn't accurate but your statement is? Then explain how the Clinton increase in taxes caused the job growth? Apparently the President controls all the power and the Congress none in your world.

Employment

Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
1992 117978 117753 118144 118426 118375 118419 118713 118826 118720 118628 118876 118997
1993 119075 119275 119542 119474 120115 120290 120467 120856 120554 120823 121169 121464
1994 121966 122086 121930 122290 122864 122634 122706 123342 123687 124112 124516 124721
1995 124663 124928 124955 124945 124421 124522 124816 124852 125133 125388 125188 125088
1996 125125 125639 125862 125994 126244 126602 126947 127172 127536 127890 127771 127860
1997 128298 128298 128891 129143 129464 129412 129822 130010 130019 130179 130653 130679
1998 130726 130807 130814 131209 131325 131244 131329 131390 131986 131999 132280 132602
1999 133027 132856 132947 132955 133311 133378 133414 133591 133707 133993 134309 134523
2000 136559 136598 136701 137270 136630 136940 136531 136662 136893 137088 137322 137614
 
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