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Arrest made in plot to blow up area military recruiting center

Can you show me what incidents these murders took place?


"Because the First Crusade was largely concerned with Jersualem, a city which had not been under Christian dominion for 461 years..." -Wikipedia
Yeah, sounds like so Muslims were the aggressors in this case...


When I meant ideology I meant overall thought process, I am well aware of the different splits of the Catholic Church that had occurred, and in some cases still occurs. But in referring to Islam, it does have a lot of good intentions as well and over looking these would be an injustice. For instance, Ramadan is a fasting month, in which the participants cannot eat during the day. This is done so to remember the poor and the conditions in which they suffer. Also, a devout Muslim gives 1/40 of their income away to help the poor. Though it might seem small, it can help as it does build up.



"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:34
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through." Zechariah 13:3 NAB
Islam is not the only violent religion.
Relatively speaking, currently, around the world, in practice, Islam is the only violent ideology, masquerading as a religion.
(Center for Security Policy, Shariah : the Threat to America, pg. 30,pg. 229) There have been 16,501 terror attacks since 9/11 in the name of Islam, by Islamic terrorists. No religion even comes close to that. Islam's bloody 1400 year history is even worse. As for what incidents these murders took place, be real. You're asking for an itemized account of more than half a Billion murders, spread over 14 centuries ? That's about like asking to count and descibe every individual grain of sand on a large beach.

What I could do is relay some history of the conquest of one particular example of Islam's many places of conquest > Spain (from one of the great historians of medieval Europe). This is a particularly good example because so many stealth jihadists like to propagandize the Islamization of Spain as peaceful and beneficial to the Spaniards. Nothing could be further from the truth.

According to three important contemporary reports Fletcher summarizes, — one “crucial administrative document from the Islamic side,” some small “archaeological evidence” and the “Chronicle of 754,” an anonymous Christian narrative in Latin — after 711 Arab raids laid waste to “several provinces,” Tariq ibn Zayid’s army followed with fully equipped legions, who in 712 murdered Roderic of Spain.

North Africa’s governor then executed all Toledo’s prominent nobles (causing the Bishop to flee), devastated the countryside and perpetrated further destruction and mass murder in Zargoza and the Ebro valley. Upon returning to the Umayyad seat of power in Damascus, he transported innumerable enslaved Visigoth lords, and all their gold and jewels.

By 715, the next governor, Abd al-Aziz, conquered provinces throughout Iberia. Documents and archaeological excavations corroborate the arrival of Toledo’s Bishop in Rome and signs of 8th century devastation beside coins dated 711 to 713. In his April 713 treaty, Abd al-Aziz promised Theodemir lordship over, and free Christian practice throughout, seven southeastern towns. For this Abd al-Aziz extorted from Theodemir stiff annual head taxes of one silver dinar per person, all the region’s wheat, barley, unfermented grape juice, vinegar, honey and oil, and an inviolable promise not to help enemies of Spain’s Islamic conquerors.

From 718 through 720, As-Samh handed all Visigoth monarchy holdings to Arab Muslim governors, and gave all the less fertile land to the North African Berber Muslims. His generosity brought 150,000 to 200,000 Arab and Berber soldiers to Spain to usurp its wealth.

After the 750 Abbasids defeat of the Umayyads, in 762, the Islamic caliphate moved from Damascus to Baghdad. In 756 the Umayyad Abd al-Rahman escaped the Abbasid Caliph al-Saffah (“shedder of blood”) and established a rival Umayyad empire that ruled Spain until 1031. But the Umayyads continued to wreck havoc on Spain. Emir al Haken (796-822) kept a palace cavalry of 2,000 and a standing army of 60,000. In 805 alone, he crucified 72 people. In 818, he leveled Cordoba’s southern suburb. The military governors of the Umayyads’ three Spanish regions were constantly at war. In 884, for example, Burgos was destroyed “to its foundations.”

Even the reputedly enlightened Abd al-Rahman III (912-961) brutalized the population. At the Cordoba palace alone, he owned 3,750 slaves on his death in 961. On July 26 in 920, a Pyrenean monk at San Juan de la Pena recorded a slaughter in Valdejunquera, southwest of Pamplona. In 920, a three month campaign culminated on July 25 with a siege of the Muez castle. All “combatants” were “put to the sword,” including over 500 “counts and knights.” While returning to Cordoba, general al-Nasir totally destroyed many other villages too. The poet Ibn Abd Rabbihi later wrote the invaders left Osma “like a blackened piece of charcoal.”

In 976 Almanzor or Al-Mansur (“the victorious”) took power. In 977 he campaigned with his general against Leon. Some 56 campaigns followed in Almanzor’s rule alone. In 985, he sacked Barcelona and the San Cugat del Valles monastery. In 987, he plundered Coimbra (now in Portugal). In 995, he imprisoned the count of Castile, and destroyed Carrion and Astorga. In 997 he attacked Santiago de Compostela. In 999 he destroyed Pamplona and in 1002 flattened Roija and San Millan de la Cogolla monastery. Almonzor raided Catalonia in 1003; Castile in 1004; Leon in 1005; and Aragon in 1006. Almanzor himself described all war on Christians as Jihad. Christian subjects said he was “seized by the Devil.”

In the 11th century, Morocco’s Almoravids crossed the Atlas mountains, conquered its plain and then conquered Spain — which they ruled from 1080 until Fernando liberated most of the peninsula in 1248. “[N]oting can stand in their way,” wrote the Muslim historian Ibn Kahldun of Almoravid religious and military fervor, “for their outlook is the same and the object they desire is common to all and is one for which they are prepared to die.” Thus in 1148 alone, the Almohads massacred 100,000 Jews in Fez, 120,000 Jews in Marrakesh and wrecked devastation and death throughout Spain, from Seville to Tortosa.

In 1148, Jewish physician and philosopher Maimonides fled Cordoba’s Almohad persecution with his family disguised as Muslims. He found asylum in Fatimid Egypt. Arabs and Muslims had “persecuted us severely, and passed baneful and discriminatory legislation against us,” he later wrote. “Never did a nation molest, degrade, debase, and hate us as much as they.” Maimonides’ 1172 Epistle to the [persecuted] Jews of Yemen that forced conversions they reported from Yemen, the Berbers had similarly forced upon Jews across the Maghreb and Spain. He described Mohammed as “the Madman,” despairing that the sole objective of his “invented … well known religion,” was “procuring rule and submission….”

(Richard Fletcher, Moorish Spain, University of California, 2006, 2nd ed., 206 pp.)

http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy....rica (Team B Report) Web Version 09302010.pdf

Islam: Making a True Difference in the World - One Body at a Time
 
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E Pluribus Unum:

I don’t care if you are Muslim, Iraqi, Persian, Mexican, Swedish, German, Australian, Catholic, Hindu or Greek.

It is the American culture and the American way.

If you are American first and foremost, I stand with you. If you are Muslim, Iraqi, Persian, Mexican, Swedish, German, Australian, Catholic, Hindu or Greek first, you are not welcome in America until you put America first.
 
The attitudes Islam holds toward governance in their Eastern homelands are the same as they were 50, 100, 200 years ago, when Jefferson dealt with the Barbary pirates. And centuries beyond that. Nothing new here. What the hell is with all of this moral relativism going on? We all know Islam is barbaric in its extremes. Why do people keep needing validation of this? Unless, of course, they're birthers building a case or a miserable human being looking for permission to kill someone.

To me, the real question is this: How do Western Muslims feel about these practices? What of 2ed and 3ed generation Muslim/Americans? What about Americans and European Muslims who have been in their respective nations for centuries, serving their nations and communities honorably? What about white American converts who attend Mosque?

I think we need to place more trust in the constitution, the judicial system, and the American spirit in general. Something like this has about as much chance of taking hold in America as Spanish being declared the national language by the Roberts Court. Cultural disdain is not going to change hearts and minds and it won't stop getting innocent people killed. The average Muslim, like your average Christian or Jew, say they believe a lot of things.

FALSE ! It has already taken hold in hundreds, if not thousands, of instances in daily life in the USA. Stealth Jihad Muslims have used the US Constitution and it's religious freedom, together with the ACLU, Muslim legal organizations like CAIR (right arm of Hamas in the US), and misguided "progressives" to push Islamic practices into workplaces, universities, lower grade scools, textbooks, the US government, and even the Pentagon, the CIA, and the FBI.
Most Americans have no idea how far this Stealth Jihad has advanced.

Stealth Jihad, Robert Spencer.

They Must Be Stopped, Brigitte Gabriel.

Muslim Mafia, P. David Gaubatz, Paul Sperry:

Infiltration, Paul Sperry.

Center for Security Policy, Shariah : the Threat to America.
 
E Pluribus Unum:

I don’t care if you are Muslim, Iraqi, Persian, Mexican, Swedish, German, Australian, Catholic, Hindu or Greek.

It is the American culture and the American way.

If you are American first and foremost, I stand with you. If you are Muslim, Iraqi, Persian, Mexican, Swedish, German, Australian, Catholic, Hindu or Greek first, you are not welcome in America until you put America first.

I am a human being and an individual first and foremost. Does that mean I should get the hell out of America?
 
I am a human being and an individual first and foremost. Does that mean I should get the hell out of America?

You're in CA so you are already out of America you just dont realize it yet.

Yet in the eyes of Muslims, unless you are a practicing follower of Islam you are dirt. You are to be killed because in their eyes you are a serpent of the devil and your head must be severed from the body.

So you still think that you are equal with a Muslim? Keep thinking that and one day you will come to regret it living in the pansy world of liberalism where there is the great hope that if you treat everyone the same they will expend the same courtesy back. Reality doesnt work that way and never will. There are some, like Muslims, when you expend your hand out to them, not only will they take what has been given but reach around to steal what you have in your back pocket.

I would hope that everyone that stands up for Muslims could go to Europe and spend a day in the open markets to see how Muslims operate daily. After about an hour you would come to realize what type of society they live in. They cheat, steal and lie. They believe because you are not a fellow Muslim they can treat you any way they want. I stood and watched so many times where Muslim women would attack anyone that stood in their way. If they didnt want to pay the asking price, they would steal it thinking you were asking to much so they deserved to take it. Or if you were looking at something they wanted, they would all group around you and try and take it from you. Slapping at you if you would not give it up.
 
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You're in CA so you are already out of America you just dont realize it yet.
Really? Because last time I checked CA has extremely American policies, which imo are bad, and the US variant of government. Just because it has a large amount of hispanics doesn't mean it isn't American. If anything it shows the diversity. What is wrong with that?

Yet in the eyes of Muslims, unless you are a practicing follower of Islam you are dirt. You are to be killed because in their eyes you are a serpent of the devil and your head must be severed from the body.
Any proof? I know a few Muslims and none of them look at me like dirt and none of them want to kill me..

So you still think that you are equal with a Muslim? Keep thinking that and one day you will come to regret it living in the pansy world of liberalism where there is the great hope that if you treat everyone the same they will expend the same courtesy back. Reality doesnt work that way and never will. There are some, like Muslims, when you expend your hand out to them, not only will they take what has been given but reach around to steal what you have in your back pocket.
What is with this conservative paranoia about liberalism? Hate to break it to you but America is one of the most right wing countries in the world. And wow your ignorance and hatred to Muslims is overwhelming. Where are you getting this from?

I would hope that everyone that stands up for Muslims could go to Europe and spend a day in the open markets to see how Muslims operate daily. After about an hour you would come to realize what type of society they live in. They cheat, steal and lie. They believe because you are not a fellow Muslim they can treat you any way they want. I stood and watched so many times where Muslim women would attack anyone that stood in their way. If they didnt want to pay the asking price, they would steal it thinking you were asking to much so they deserved to take it. Or if you were looking at something they wanted, they would all group around you and try and take it from you. Slapping at you if you would not give it up.
This sounds like a Nazi wrote this.
 
Really? Because last time I checked CA has extremely American policies, which imo are bad, and the US variant of government. Just because it has a large amount of hispanics doesn't mean it isn't American. If anything it shows the diversity. What is wrong with that?


Any proof? I know a few Muslims and none of them look at me like dirt and none of them want to kill me..


What is with this conservative paranoia about liberalism? Hate to break it to you but America is one of the most right wing countries in the world. And wow your ignorance and hatred to Muslims is overwhelming. Where are you getting this from?


This sounds like a Nazi wrote this.

Hey YT,

What's your affiliation?
 
The attitudes Islam holds toward governance in their Eastern homelands are the same as they were 50, 100, 200 years ago, when Jefferson dealt with the Barbary pirates. And centuries beyond that. Nothing new here. What the hell is with all of this moral relativism going on? We all know Islam is barbaric in its extremes. Why do people keep needing validation of this? Unless, of course, they're birthers building a case or a miserable human being looking for permission to kill someone.

To me, the real question is this: How do Western Muslims feel about these practices? What of 2ed and 3ed generation Muslim/Americans? What about Americans and European Muslims who have been in their respective nations for centuries, serving their nations and communities honorably? What about white American converts who attend Mosque?

I think we need to place more trust in the constitution, the judicial system, and the American spirit in general. Something like this has about as much chance of taking hold in America as Spanish being declared the national language by the Roberts Court. Cultural disdain is not going to change hearts and minds and it won't stop getting innocent people killed. The average Muslim, like your average Christian or Jew, say they believe a lot of things.

The problem is that Europe, America and many other countries are experiencing a new wave of Muslim immigrants. This new wave of immigrants are bringing with them the hard line attitudes of their home lands. Sharia law and the strict interpretations of the Koran are making their way back in the Muslim communities that were generally peaceful in the past. The American and European Muslims are no longer isolated. They have much stronger ties to the mother land these days.
 
I am a human being and an individual first and foremost. Does that mean I should get the hell out of America?

While some here may contend that their cats or dogs would make better American citizens than you, I personally believe that being a human being (and an individual) is a prerequisite to said citizenship.
 
The problem is that Europe, America and many other countries are experiencing a new wave of Muslim immigrants. This new wave of immigrants are bringing with them the hard line attitudes of their home lands. Sharia law and the strict interpretations of the Koran are making their way back in the Muslim communities that were generally peaceful in the past. The American and European Muslims are no longer isolated. They have much stronger ties to the mother land these days.

Lol - Well, Europe doesn't have the House of Representatives to deal with. Nor the Senate. Nor the Executive. Nor the Judicial, which is pretty conservative at this point. They also don't have the 4th Estate, The Press. And finally, at least at this point, the United States is a UNIFIED nation with a strong central government, not a bunch of nation/states claiming their rights over The Union with no cohesive policy (which, ironically, is what the Federalists wanted back in the Articles of Confederation days, and what the Tea Party/Libertarians think they want now).

In all honesty, I don't feel America has a "Muslim problem" at all, despite what those with a fear-dependent income may tell us.
 
FALSE ! It has already taken hold in hundreds, if not thousands, of instances in daily life in the USA. Stealth Jihad Muslims have used the US Constitution and it's religious freedom, together with the ACLU, Muslim legal organizations like CAIR (right arm of Hamas in the US), and misguided "progressives" to push Islamic practices into workplaces, universities, lower grade scools, textbooks, the US government, and even the Pentagon, the CIA, and the FBI.
Most Americans have no idea how far this Stealth Jihad has advanced.

Stealth Jihad, Robert Spencer.

They Must Be Stopped, Brigitte Gabriel.

Muslim Mafia, P. David Gaubatz, Paul Sperry:

Infiltration, Paul Sperry.

Center for Security Policy, Shariah : the Threat to America.

Lol. Okay. Soooo-how do you really feel? Oh, and in the future, don't scream at me and call me a liar in the same exclamation. Not only is it rude, it's arrogant and foolish. Besides, this kind of over-reaction is worthless even if you are correct.

I suggest people have a little more faith in the nation, and the God, they claim they love and trust completely. Right now, it is not Islam destroying the fabric of the nation. Far from it.
 
Lol. Okay. Soooo-how do you really feel? Oh, and in the future, don't scream at me and call me a liar in the same exclamation. Not only is it rude, it's arrogant and foolish. Besides, this kind of over-reaction is worthless even if you are correct.

I suggest people have a little more faith in the nation, and the God, they claim they love and trust completely. Right now, it is not Islam destroying the fabric of the nation. Far from it.

Now i'm really angry. I just spent 15 minutes typng up a repose to this,clicked post and the damn thing didappeared. OK look it's gooma look ugly. Tough. I'm not going to be here all day OK ?

Now I didn't call you a liar - you were incorrect. And I didn't scream at you. I've been saying FALSE ! for 5 years in forums , and no one has ever whined about it before so lighten up.

Now, if you think you are even remotely qualified to judge people's feelings anout Islamization you get 3 questions.

1. How many of the 5 books I suggested have you read ? (careful - ther ecould be a quiz)

2. Hw many of theswe people can you identify and how they'r econnected to Islamization ?

Ibin Tamiyah, the Madhi, Sheik Ahmed Yassin, Sami al-Arian, Ramadan Abdallah Shallah, Mazen al-Najjar, Richard A. Clarke, Imam Muzzamil Siddiqui, Susan Douglas, Peter DiGangi, William Bennetta, Gilbert Sewall (pg. 96), Prince Alwaleed bin Talal, al-Hajj Talib'Abur, Rashid Sahmsi Ali, Khalid Latif, Omar Mohammedi, Joe Kaufman, Chantal Carnes, Hasan al-Banna (creator of the Muslim Brotherhood-I'll give you that one), Tariq Ramadan, Siraj Wahhaj, Mozen Mokhtar, Nouman Ali Khan, Abdul Malik (pg. 103), Imam Badawi, Br. Jawad Ahmad, Hassan Abbas, Mullah Abdul Rashid Ghazi, Sheik Mjed 'Abd al-Rahman al-Firian, Prince Sultan Ibn Abd al-'Aziz, Ali al-Ahmed, Itamar Marcus, Barbara Cook, Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab, Ahmed Omar Abu Ali, Mohammed Osman Idris, Mohammed el-Yacoubi, Abu Abdullah, Baitullah Mehsud, Yunis al-Astal, Zeyno Baran (pg. 122) Aaron Klein, Muhammad Abdel-El, Sheik Yasser Hamad, Nur Mohammad, Ahmed Yassin (deceased), Sheik Abdel Rahman, Sheik Mohammed bin Rashid AL Maktoum, Abdullah Azzam, Fazlur Rehman Khalil (pg. 128), Mohammad Elachmi Hamdi, Bat Ye'or, Max Steenberghe, Anders Fogh Ramussen, Paul Jeeves (pg. 139), Yusuf al-Qarodawi, Bashar al-Assad, Robert S. Leiken, Theo Van Gogh, Michel Gurfinkel, Imam Ahmed Salam, Piet Hein Donner, Miguel Angel Toma (pg.152), Salah Yassin, Hassan Nasrallah, Ahmed Assad Barakat, Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, Bashar al-Assad, Adolpho Aguilar Zinser, Joseph Farah, Nabil al-Marabh, Raed Hijazi, David Harris, Syed Mumtaz Ali, Omar Ahmad, Ibrahim Hooper, Sheikh Mubarak Ali Gilani, Dr. Paul Williams (pg. 167), Hassan al Turabi, Clement Rodney Hampton-El, Kevin James, Warner MacKenzie, Sayeed Abdul A'la Maududi, Abdullah Yusef Ali, Mohammed Marmaduke Pickthall, Nessim Joseph Dawood, Mohammed Habib Shakir, Arthur John Arberry, Aqsa Parvez, Atefeh Rajabi, (pg. 179), Francis Bok, Michael Coren, Homaidan Ali Al-Turki, Sheik Saleh Al-Fawzan, Paul Marshall, Koenraad Elst, Tom Clancy, Phil Alden Robinson, Michael Graham, Thomas Klocek, STEPHEN COUGHLIN, Hasham Islam, Steven Emerson, Mordechai Nisan, Abduraman Alamoudi, Ramadan Abdallah Shallah, Musa Abu Marzook, Keith Ellison (pg. 200), Abdullah al-Arian, ,
Jamal-al-Din al-Afghani, James Woolsey, Walid Phares, Guy Rodgers, Brigitte Gabriel, Robert Spencer,

3. How many of these things related to Islamization can you identify and say how they are related ?

Hijra, jizyah, Istanbul, Al-Quds, Al-Aqsa mosque, Napoleon Bonaparte (pg. 36), treaty of Al-Hudaybiyah, Oslo Accords, the Mahdi, Al-Ansar, 2006 Pentagon report : "Motivations of Muslim Suicide Bombers" (pg.63), "The Project", the Muslim Brotherhood, the Ikhwan, Taqiyya (pg. 76), Da'wa, Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR), Holy Land Foundation trials - 2007 & 2008, Khalil Gibran Academy, US Treasury Dept. (Office of Foreign Asset Control), Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), Muslim American Society (MSA), United States Counterinsurgency Manual FM 3-24, US Justice Dept. report - 2004 (pg. 82), US Justice Dept. report - 2007, abeds, North American Islamic Trust, Islamic Council for North America, United Association for Studies and Research, Muslim American Youth Association, the Hamas Charter, Islamic Academy of Florida (pg. 89), Palestinian Islamic Jihad, American Youth Academy, New Horizons Schools, DawaNet—to link • to serve: Home with sections entitled "How to Make America an Islamic Nation" and Da'wa in Public Schools, Excelsior Elementary School, Thomas Moore Law Center, Islamic Saudi Academy, "The Islam Project" by the Council on Islamic Education, the Arab World History Notebook, "Across the Centuries", California Academy of Sciences, "World Cultures : A Global Mosaic", American Textbook Council (pg. 96), "Islam and the Textbooks", Arab American Family Support Center (AAFSC), Mosque of Islamic Brotherhood's Boy Scout program (MIB), Americans Against Hate, CAIR Watch, the Young Muslims, Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA), Jamaat-e-Islami, Young Muslim Sisters (YMS), Middle East Media Research Institute (pg. 105), US Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF), Freedom House, Institute for Gulf Affairs, Palestinian Media Watch (pg. 110), "Contemporary Problems", "History of the Arabs and the World in the 20th Century", Reading and Text Part II, Association of Independent Schools, ISA accreditation, Center for Religious Freedom, Hizb ut-Tahrir al-Islami, Islamic Party of Liberation, Al-Aksa TV of Hamas, Hudson institute (pg. 119), Popular Resistance Committee, "Schmoozing With Terrorists", US House of Representitives, Abu Dhabi Investment Authority (pg.124), "Eurabia, the Euro-Arab Axis", European Union, the Arab League,"Foreign Affairs" - "Europe's Angry Muslims", Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC), Sharee Council of Dewsbury, West Yorkshire, Immigration and National Security Program at the Nixon Center (pg. 140), Sukuk, Sharia compliant banks, Saxony-Anhalt, piggy banks in England, foot washing basins (Kansas City Airport & University of Michigan), "Britain's Daily Mail" - "Multiculturalsim Drives Young Muslims to Shun British Values", Nationa Intelligence Council, www.islamonline.net, "Valeurs Actuelles", the triple border region, UN Security Council, House Homeland Security Committee subcommittee on investigations report : "A Line In the Sand: Confronting the Threat At the Southwest Border", OTMs, Jamaat ul-Fuqra (pg. 156), Muslims of the Americas, the FBI, Canadian Security Intelligence Service, "TD Monthly", halal chicken, ACLU, the Date Frappuccino, Open Society Foundation, Whiting Foundation, hijab, Transportation & Safety Admin. (TSA), "New Media Journal" report - "In the Belly of the Beast: Jamaat ul-Fuqra, Jamaat ul-Fuqra mosque (Brooklyn, NY), Koran: 4:34, honor killings, the Alec file (pg. 167), Jamiyyat Ul-Islam, It's the Ideology Stupid,Tad-ru-bu-hu-nna, Human Rights Commission of Pakistan (pg. 177), UN Children's Fund, the Population Council - 2003 survey, m'uta, Haratines, Janjaweed, Dinka tribe, "Escape From Slavery" (pg. 185), Toronto Sun online - "Slavery Lives in the Sudan", Middle East Forum - "The Problem with Slavery", Saudi Arabia Senior Council of Clerics, Human Rights Watch, Middle East Forum, Copts, Baha'i sect of Islam, "Islam : From Toleration to Terror" (pg. 188), Hizb ut-Tahrir, Jyllands-Posten, "The Sum of All Fears" (pg. 193), University of South Florida, Palistinian Islamic Jihad, "Future Jihad" (pg.215),

Beginning to get an idea of how much you don't know ? or how unqualifed you are to use words like "over-reaction" ?
 
What is a "fear-dependent income" Kev316?

Julian Assange?
 
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What is a "fear-dependent income" Kev316?

Julian Assange?
It's cheese related.

People fear being without cheese, and thus...

Holy ****...my mind thinks of strange things at 5:45 AM
 
I disagree. I read that website and the man's biography and I am not convinced...

If you have read through that site, among many others, and are still not convinced, then you appear to have made up your mind and no amount of documentation will suit you.

Though I agree Islam does in fact call for violence so does the bible.

With the difference being, of course, Christians are not committing terrorism throughout the world in the name of their religion. Muslims are.

The bible does preach intolerance against homosexuality and women. Not to mention justifies slavery and extreme violent punishments. Does that mean the fundmental principles of Christianity is wrong? No but same could be said of Islam.

While there is indeed intolerance in the Bible, women, Gays, adulterers, as well as children, are not being stoned to death today, not are Christians trying to commit terrorism on several levels.

This desperate search for relativism between Christianity and Islamic terrorism in some sort of 'they all do it' game is becoming more and more foolish. The airport security checks people have to go through these days has not come about as a result of any violence and murder inspired by the Christian Bible.
 
If you have read through that site, among many others, and are still not convinced, then you appear to have made up your mind and no amount of documentation will suit you.



With the difference being, of course, Christians are not committing terrorism throughout the world in the name of their religion. Muslims are.



While there is indeed intolerance in the Bible, women, Gays, adulterers, as well as children, are not being stoned to death today, not are Christians trying to commit terrorism on several levels.

This desperate search for relativism between Christianity and Islamic terrorism in some sort of 'they all do it' game is becoming more and more foolish. The airport security checks people have to go through these days has not come about as a result of any violence and murder inspired by the Christian Bible.

Absolutely right. Islamapologists, please give up on the "Christian bible says it too" line. It's stupid. Everybody knows its a cop-out, and by resorting to something that can be easily refuted, as Grant just did (and dozens of others before him), you guys weaken your argument, not strengthen it. Although I'm quite well aware of the hate, genocide, misogyny, brutality, etc. called for (if not commanded) in the Koran, and I'm not as well aware of these bad things being in the Christian bible, even they even are (I don't ever see examples given, that might even come close to matching the Koran and Hadith), the crux of all this is what is happening in the world today (as well as over the past 1400 years),

Still wouldn't matter even if they were there. Bottom line is, there isn't any Christian, or any other religion outside of Islam that has a Muslim Brotherhood type organization that is actively seeking to conquer and eradicate all other religions, and set up a world-wide caliphate. The many offsring organizations which the Muslim Brotherhood is parent to (ex. Al Qaeda, Hamas, etc) are doing exactly that with violence, while others like CAIR, the Muslim Student Association, and the Islamic Society of North America due it quietly, through Steath Jihad.
 
Beginning to get an idea of how much you don't know ? or how unqualifed you are to use words like "over-reaction" ?

Okay, I get it. You despise Islam and want it destroyed. That's fine. But for all your resources, I suggest you have never spent time in a place like Lebanon, for example, standing between Christians and Muslims in Beirut. Ironically, you get to know average people over time, whether Christian or Muslim. There were kind, hard working people on both sides of the civil war (started by radicals bent on proclaiming the other evil). There were a few real bastards, too, but overall? Not so much.

I'm not defending the doctrines of Islam that were written "by the devil himself". I'm defending people that, like most Christians, really don't buy in to the insane parts of the whole thing, like US Congressmen influencing the "Kill the Gays" legislation in Uganda, for instance. Average Muslims despised the neighborhood cleansing that went on in Iraq, too.

A relatively few ideologues can make a real mess for the majority.

Uganda Kill The Gays Bill | US Evangelists

Uganda's "Kill the Gays" Bill Tied To Rick Warren Mentor | PEEK | AlterNet

So seriously, if you want to prepare yourself for a sudden onslaught of Sharia law, be my guest. But a radical is a radical regardless of politics or religion, and we all need to stop painting with these broad brushes, imo. Big problems have many parts.

Now, when the truck bombs exploded the morning of October 23, 1983, in our compound and that of the French, nobody went looking for Muslims to kill. Nobody blamed the local Muslim population for anything. We blamed Islamic Jihad (Hezbollah) and Iran. The reason for this is clear: you gain unqualified support with religion and patriotism. The far-right and far-left always pulls this crap and everyone always falls for it. Truth is, people are people, mostly.
 
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Absolutely right. Islamapologists, please give up on the "Christian bible says it too" line. It's stupid. Everybody knows its a cop-out, and by resorting to something that can be easily refuted, as Grant just did (and dozens of others before him), you guys weaken your argument, not strengthen it. Although I'm quite well aware of the hate, genocide, misogyny, brutality, etc. called for (if not commanded) in the Koran, and I'm not as well aware of these bad things being in the Christian bible, even they even are (I don't ever see examples given, that might even come close to matching the Koran and Hadith), the crux of all this is what is happening in the world today (as well as over the past 1400 years),

Still wouldn't matter even if they were there. Bottom line is, there isn't any Christian, or any other religion outside of Islam that has a Muslim Brotherhood type organization that is actively seeking to conquer and eradicate all other religions, and set up a world-wide caliphate. The many offsring organizations which the Muslim Brotherhood is parent to (ex. Al Qaeda, Hamas, etc) are doing exactly that with violence, while others like CAIR, the Muslim Student Association, and the Islamic Society of North America due it quietly, through Steath Jihad.

The actual Biblical argument - the one that should be used by Christians - is simply this:

Matthew 5:43-48 You have heard that it has been said, You shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy. But I say to you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which spitefully use you, and persecute you; That you may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love them which love you, what reward have you? Do not even the publicans the same? And if you salute your brothers only, what do you more than others? Do not even the publicans so? Be you therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Christianity, should one practice it correctly, is a faith of tremendous discipline. It's not really about bemoaning the sin of the world. It's more about bemoaning our own shortcomings, individually, and walking in love toward all our fellows whether they deserve it or not. It's not on them, it's on us. Sorry, I didn't write it.
 
The actual Biblical argument - the one that should be used by Christians - is simply this:

Matthew 5:43-48 You have heard that it has been said, You shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy. But I say to you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which spitefully use you, and persecute you; That you may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love them which love you, what reward have you? Do not even the publicans the same? And if you salute your brothers only, what do you more than others? Do not even the publicans so? Be you therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Christianity, should one practice it correctly, is a faith of tremendous discipline. It's not really about bemoaning the sin of the world. It's more about bemoaning our own shortcomings, individually, and walking in love toward all our fellows whether they deserve it or not. It's not on them, it's on us. Sorry, I didn't write it.

It's a nice thought. Loving your enemies. Only problem is, loving jihadists, whether they be violent now, or Stealth Jihadists ("moderate" now, violent later) is asking to have millions of people killed, subjugated, enslaved, pedophiled, etc. As a protectionist, that is unacceptable to me, and I don't care who said it.
 
Only problem is, loving jihadists, whether they be violent now, or Stealth Jihadists ("moderate" now, violent later)

Stealth Jihadists...

That sounds like a pre-emptive condemnation for anyone (of the islamic faith) not out terrorizing the neighborhood... due to the assumption that they could become active one day. Yes?

Do you also take that stealth position to other criminal activities where a particular demographic accounts for a significant majority of those who commit a given offense? Say... blacks & murder (and the non-killers are just killers in waiting) or... caucasian men and DUI's (and the non-drunk drivers are just soon to be "over the limits")? I guess I'm asking just how far does that "protectionist" arm span out...

What's your solution btw?
 
Stealth Jihadists...

That sounds like a pre-emptive condemnation for anyone (of the islamic faith) not out terrorizing the neighborhood... due to the assumption that they could become active one day. Yes?

Do you also take that stealth position to other criminal activities where a particular demographic accounts for a significant majority of those who commit a given offense? Say... blacks & murder (and the non-killers are just killers in waiting) or... caucasian men and DUI's (and the non-drunk drivers are just soon to be "over the limits")? I guess I'm asking just how far does that "protectionist" arm span out...

What's your solution btw?

So you don't know what the term Stealth Jihad means, quite obvioulsy. That's OK. Neither do most Americans. Stealth Jihad is not covered too much in the MSM, and rarely, if ever, in liberal media like MSNBC, NPR, etc. If the the average American depended on knowledge about it in order to pay their rent/mortgage, we'd be a nation of homeless people.

Stealth Jihad is the highly organized effort (originating from the Muslim Brotherhood) of hundreds of Muslim organizations, individuals, and aided by clueless "progressives" acting in ways that introduce Islam bit by bit into American society, and impose it upon American society (same with European countries), to where, eventually, Islam will (they hope) become dominant, Sharia law will replace the US Constitution in American, and the US will be an Islamic state. The ultimat e goal is a world-wide caliphate > ie, the whole world under Islam. It can well be defined by the author of the book "Stealth Jihad", Robert Spencer :

"Those who are working to advance the hegemony of Islamic law do so in innumerable ways, including by introducing it, bit by bit, into American society and demanding that Americans accomodate it; by shouting down any and all who dare to discuss the supremacist impulse within traditional and mainstream Islam; and by engaging in efforts to transform and control Western economies."

Referring to the Stealth Jihadists, Spencer says also : "...one of the key characterisics distinguishing them from their violent counterperts is that they carry out their business openly, carefully constructing a facade of moderation. Whay is stealth about these operatives is their ultimate agenda - they are not seeking to protect Muslims' "civil rights" from the rampant "Islamophobia" that ostensibly plagues Western societies, as they claim. Rather, they are leading a full scale effort to transform pluralistic societies into Islamic states..".
"The stealth jihadists have already made significant inroads into American life. They are well-funded, well-organized, and persistent. They will not be pacified by negotiations, compromises, or concessions; they cannot be bought off. And every day, they are advancing their agenda - while most Americans don't even know they exist".


Because Stealth Jihad is such a decentralized thing, to understand it, it's best to read a few of the good books written about it. Here's a few, in order of when to read, with comprehensive overview first, and then going to more specific.

1. They Must Be Stopped, Brigitte Gabriel.

2. Stealth Jihad, Robert Spencer.

3. Muslim Mafia, P. David Gaubatz, Paul Sperry:

4. Infiltration, Paul Sperry.

5. Shariah : the Threat to America, Center for Security Policy.

As for the solution, that's simple. Simply preserve your country as it is (ex. the US Constitution), and do not give way to demands by those (Muslims or anyone else) who want to change it to suit themselves.
Carefully preserve the truth in school textbooks, beware of Islamizing propaganda, don't settle out of court when Islamizing file suit, and above all, read these books.
Be aware that those who call for protection of their religious freedom are advancing a cause (Islamization) which would abolish religious freedom, and the entire US Constitution along with it.
 
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So you don't know what the term Stealth Jihad means, quite obvioulsy. That's OK. Neither do most Americans. Stealth Jihad is not covered too much in the MSM, and rarely, if ever, in liberal media like MSNBC, NPR, etc. If the the average American depended on knowledge about it in order to pay their rent/mortgage, we'd be a nation of homeless people.

Excuse my lateness regarding a reply... I had to pick my eyes up after rolling them so hard.

The traditional Christian approach (love thy enemy) to what you and others call stealth jihad doesn't seem as if it will create violence from a strategy based on "terrorism without bombs". You're talking about the advancement of a radical agenda, which (as you should know) doesn't stand a chance to a moderate islam that supports western democracy while recognizing a secular system with no protest. You direct me to numerous outlets that all seem to portray an aggressive & dangerous threat to western civilization... with... no significant instances of actual threats to legal equality & freedom of speech that can be considered to advance a point?

One author even goes on to say that a muslim President can create changes that introduce sharia law into our society. Really? We're to assume that, at that time, we'll no longer have congressional oversight? What a crock...
 
Excuse my lateness regarding a reply... I had to pick my eyes up after rolling them so hard.

The traditional Christian approach (love thy enemy) to what you and others call stealth jihad doesn't seem as if it will create violence from a strategy based on "terrorism without bombs". You're talking about the advancement of a radical agenda, which (as you should know) doesn't stand a chance to a moderate islam that supports western democracy while recognizing a secular system with no protest. You direct me to numerous outlets that all seem to portray an aggressive & dangerous threat to western civilization... with... no significant instances of actual threats to legal equality & freedom of speech that can be considered to advance a point?

One author even goes on to say that a muslim President can create changes that introduce sharia law into our society. Really? We're to assume that, at that time, we'll no longer have congressional oversight? What a crock...

What evidence do you have to support the idea that radical Islam "doesn't stand a chance to a moderate islam"? Is that anything more than a hope?
 
What evidence do you have to support the idea that radical Islam "doesn't stand a chance to a moderate islam"?

What evidence have you encountered that indicates a prevalent mentality that attempts to push a radical agenda? Where are the massive (or atleast significant) calls for an inclusion of theology w/ state legislation from the oh so intrusive radical islam? It appears that atheists are more apt to remove God from governing institutions at a rate that out-paces muslims trying to include it (if it even exists). How large is the muslim caucas in this country?

My evidence shows itself in the lack of meaningful instances people can point to that suggests an aggressive movement of radicalized islam in this country.
 
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