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Wikileaks founder Julian Assange arrested in London

Kal'Stang said:
Thank you for showing that you have no idea what socialism is. And obviously it won't matter what I say socialsim actually is since you apparently don't care to educate yourself on the subject matter. As shown in your post..the part which I have bolded.
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You loves you some socialism. I get it.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Where have I stated (or acted) that there's a "big box of hearts just waiting to be used"?

Facts are facts. All I have to do is show ONE person that did not recieve a heart due to no coverage and your whole arguement is out the door. Shall we continue?
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And if I show one person who did get one, you're whole argument is out the door. America has the best healthcare system in the world, as much as you socialists don't want to acknowledge it.

How about Canada, where they wait so long for their turn, they die in waiting? Is that your ideal, or are you guys still spouting Cuba as the medical nirvana of the world.
 
j-mac said:
Apt? You think that giving a Socialist sympathizing Anarchist that want's to dissemble classified intel for the purposes of creating chaos to bring down governments in the world is deserving of a Nobel Peace prize? Who else is on your short list? OBL?


j-mac
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I get that for you being a socialist is akin to being a devil-worshipper, but there is nothing particularly negative about socialism. Your similarly negative attitude towards anarchism suggests that what is really at play here is a distrust of anything that opposes authority. Equating a whistleblower with a terrorist is even more indicative of this subservient attitude.

Assange, through Wikileaks, has helped to expose a number of illegal actions by members of the U.S. government and others around the world. If that brings down governments who are exposed to be acting in an abusive and corrupt manner than that is something more deserving of such a prize than many others in the past.

Erod said:
But simply put, it's the idea that government knows better than people about what's best for them. There's your fifth-grade definition, and in fact, the most ACCURATE one.
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Actually no, the most accurate definition is the idea of the people owning and managing the means of production and allocation of resources in a democratic manner. The U.S., along with many of the major world powers, despised and waged war against socialism long before the Soviets gave it a bad name. It was not because socialism and its counterparts anarchism and communism represented some sort of tyrannical system, but rather the opposite. Elites in business and government feared the kind of loss of control that such ideology demanded. The radical left was associated with labor agitators who disrupted the activities of big business and rebelled against government.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Mostly, what we've gotten, is that you lack understanding of the subject of this thread. Was that what you intended?
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We're on page 30. ALL DP threads do this eventually, LOL.

Ok, back to the arrest of liberal superhero, Julian Assaunge. Looks like he's headed here for a proper waterboarding.

Carry on.
 
Moderator's Warning:
This thread is about this
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not this
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Get it back on track with the topic or consequences will occur
 
Sorry posted before I saw moderator warning. I have edited to get rid of what I said in respect to our mods.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Just because there is a trial does not mean that there will be a conviction.

In any case what would really be the point? Wikileaks has already stated that no matter what happens with Assaunge they will continue to operate as they have been. In this case chopping off the head of the snake is not going to kill the body.
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It just might send a message to other spys.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
word games are lame. He helped the enemy by leaking our secrets. What do you call that?
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He also helped the rest of the world findout what our government has been doing.

I have yet to see evidence of how he has helped the enemy in any way beyond making things a bit easier for them to find some information that they were no doubt gathering anyways.

I find it odd that no one in your position has yet to deny that any of the sites listed in that list could not have been found out in another way just as easily or through someone like Manning directly. At most that list is probably nothing more than just a confirmation of what they already knew.
 
Kal'Stang said:
He also helped the rest of the world findout what our government has been doing.
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More that he showed how two faced the rest of the world is.


They now will react differently to us. is this a net gain?


I have yet to see how he has helped the enemy in any way beyond making things a bit easier for them to find some information that they were no doubt gathering anyways.

I find it odd that no one in your position has yet to deny that any of the sites listed in that list could not have been found out in another way just as easily or through someone like Manning directly. At most that list is probably nothing more than just a confirmation of what they already knew.
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speculating?
 
Kal'Stang said:
He also helped the rest of the world findout what our government has been doing.
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One of the terms for doing that is spying. Why do you think spy satellites do? What do you think Julius and Ethel Rosenberg did? Kim Philby? They helped others to find out what a government had been doing. That is what made them spies.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
It just might send a message to other spys.
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I think the purpose of trying and if possible convicting people is to do justice. If Assange is guilty of crimes, he should be tried, convicted and punished because he is a criminal, not because we don't like him or to send a message, but as a desire to have justice. If it sends a message that is a bonus.
 
Demon of Light said:
Your similarly negative attitude towards anarchism suggests that what is really at play here is a distrust of anything that opposes authority. Equating a whistleblower with a terrorist is even more indicative of this subservient attitude.
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I find it an alarming trend. It's as if people have lost the capacity to exercise independent thought.

When a government begins to classify large numbers of not very important documents, it creates a climate of secrecy. Punishing a muckraker or journalistic outlet for publishing those not-very-secret secrets has a stifling effect on overall criticism of the government. Cockroaches flourish in the dark.

Our system of government relies on informed voters for its maintenance. Keeping the people in the dark and feeding them bull**** does not lead to greater freedom or success.
 
Redress said:
One of the terms for doing that is spying. Why do you think spy satellites do? What do you think Julius and Ethel Rosenberg did? Kim Philby? They helped others to find out what a government had been doing. That is what made them spies.
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So, the people aren't supposed to know what the government is doing on our behalf? It's a fine line, Redress. Cross it on the one side, and troops are endangered. Go too far on the other extreme, and you encourage corruption, abuse of power, and ultimately, the collapse of democracy.
 
Redress said:
If it sends a message that is a bonus.
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What message should be sent? That publishing leaked information about government wrongdoing should be punished? Where would that have left Woodward and Bernstein?
 
Catz Part Deux said:
I find it an alarming trend. It's as if people have lost the capacity to exercise independent thought.

When a government begins to classify large numbers of not very important documents, it creates a climate of secrecy. Punishing a muckraker or journalistic outlet for publishing those not-very-secret secrets has a stifling effect on overall criticism of the government. Cockroaches flourish in the dark.

Our system of government relies on informed voters for its maintenance. Keeping the people in the dark and feeding them bull**** does not lead to greater freedom or success.
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There are ways to change the system. Randomly releasing classified material is not one of them. In point of fact, if transparency is your goal, this will work to make things worse, since the US and other governments are going to work harder at securing classified documents and keep them safe.

Some one has to decide what can and should be secret. The only person whose judgment I absolutely trust is mine(and even that is not really absolute). I do trust our government more than some foreign guy to decide what is best kept secret, especially when that foreign guy has shown that he is hostile to the US.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
What message should be sent? That publishing leaked information about government wrongdoing should be punished? Where would that have left Woodward and Bernstein?
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Woodward and Bernstein did not publish classified material. They got almost all of their information from interviews(Woodward still does).
 
Redress said:
I think the purpose of trying and if possible convicting people is to do justice. If Assange is guilty of crimes, he should be tried, convicted and punished because he is a criminal, not because we don't like him or to send a message, but as a desire to have justice. If it sends a message that is a bonus.
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Deterrment is also part of our legal system. :prof
 
Catz Part Deux said:
So, the people aren't supposed to know what the government is doing on our behalf? It's a fine line, Redress. Cross it on the one side, and troops are endangered. Go too far on the other extreme, and you encourage corruption, abuse of power, and ultimately, the collapse of democracy.
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Correct, there is a fine line. Assange is not some one I trust, nor are other random people to make the determination.
 
Redress said:
Woodward and Bernstein did not publish classified material. They got almost all of their information from interviews(Woodward still does).
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Those interviews covered material that was considered classified. Whether the document is published in its entirety, or the information is provided in a verbal conversation that includes the details of the information, it's the same, legally speaking.
 
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