• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

McCain: 'Don't Ask' Repeal May Cause Troop Exodus

You do know that gays can serve in the military. They simply don't want them to be open about it because men live in close quarters and this can be for long periods. The place isn't a social experiment, it's a professional military of men trained to neutralize the enemy. They don't need friction amongst one another.

.

Rubbish. People were being discharged even when third-partied outed them, or when, some time in the past, they had made their homosexuality known on the internet.
 
I served for seven years, Army, in very good units. While there will be issues and adjustments, I do not think there will be a mass exodus. FYI, in the higher-testosterone units, the only gays that will succeed there will be those who choose to stay quiet and subdued about issues of their sexuality anyway.

Pentagon report has statements from special forces units who have/had gay members. One said, and I quote, "he's big and mean and kills lots of bad guys, and noone cared that he was gay."

SpecOps guys are high-testosterone, right?
 
Pentagon report has statements from special forces units who have/had gay members. One said, and I quote, "he's big and mean and kills lots of bad guys, and noone cared that he was gay."

SpecOps guys are high-testosterone, right?

Right, and the gay guy is hi-test too. It looks like the special forces man you quoted really appreciated that.
 
Sounds to me like, in the face of this rather conclusive study, Navy now needs to shut the **** up about what the troops supposedly want.

The troops have spoken, and a super-majority of them don't give a rats ass about who is or isn't gay.

The wrong question was asked my left wing friend...The question is not how do we cancel DADT its should DADT be canceled.......You will get amd entirely different answer if you ask the latter..........
 
Pentagon report has statements from special forces units who have/had gay members. One said, and I quote, "he's big and mean and kills lots of bad guys, and noone cared that he was gay."

SpecOps guys are high-testosterone, right?

You are cherry picking one example of a big mean gay guy who likes to kill the bad guys. Did you serve with Special Ops units ?

Let me 'splian this a little bit better, in the hopes that you won't resort to sniping posts. Most Speicail Ops folks are very high-professional. There are no dummies there, and priorities are exceedingly highly honed. Where gays will face the most difficulties will be in the line units. The grunts. Lots of testosterone there.

As I asked, did you serve ? Are you gay ? Do yuo have close family members who are gay ? What validates your sniping opinions here, except that you have a right to it ? Thanks.
 
Last edited:
The wrong question was asked my left wing friend...The question is not how do we cancel DADT its should DADT be canceled.......You will get amd entirely different answer if you ask the latter..........

Navy, do you think of the people who said it would have a positive or no affect on military readiness or unit cohesion, a large majority in the study, also think that DADT shouldn't be canceled anyway? If you don't believe in the reasons the program exists why would you support the continued existance of the program?!?!
 
You are cherry picking one example of a big mean gay guy who likes to kill the bad guys. Did you serve with Special Ops units ?

I'm saying this idea that gay guys can't serve in "high-testosterone" units without hiding themselves is clearly incorrect, especially considering the overwhelming number of even marine combat units that said there wasn't a problem with their gay members. (84%)

Is 84% cherry picking?
 
The wrong question was asked my left wing friend...The question is not how do we cancel DADT its should DADT be canceled.......You will get amd entirely different answer if you ask the latter..........

But, in 1940, would you have asked military personnel how to integrate black people into combat and flying units?

Or would you have asked, should we integrate black people...?

I think you and John McCain might have choosen the latter.
 
The wrong question was asked my left wing friend...The question is not how do we cancel DADT its should DADT be canceled.......You will get amd entirely different answer if you ask the latter..........
You can't ask the first without implying that the latter is a given - thus one would assume that any reasonable person, if they opposed canceling DADT, would answer the question of "what effect will this have (canceling DADT)" with "really bad things will happen".

Or are you saying the majority of our armed forces are too stupid to process that?
 
I have a question for you Zimmer.

Military unit cohesion is based on trust, right? How can you trust someone if they are forced to hide who they are from you?
Good question, especially for Obama and most Democrats. They hide and lie about who they are and what they want to do.

Unit cohesion isn't disrupted because someone has to keep their unusual sexual orientation to themselves. I use "unusual" because it's not usual. Homosexuality isn't the norm and can cause friction as the Commaders have testified.

I have another question for you.

Why should a straight person be able to be open and honest about themselves but a gay person doing the same gets discharged?
Not too complicated; because it's the societal norm for eons. If we have gays, why not have transvestites? They're people too.


One last question:

Even combat marines are overwhelmingly not against it, when you ask the guys who've actually served with homosexuals. Why should we listen to the small minority who hasn't?
Watch the video. And strange with all this support, congress doesn't have the votes to pass it.

There's pretty much nothing from the right wingers that surprises me anymore.
ROTFLOL... What... that we usually disagree with the socialists?

.
 
Last edited:
Pentagon Chiefs Tell Senate Panel: Repeal 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'

WASHINGTON (Dec. 2) -- Senate Republicans, led by Arizona's John McCain, today raised the specter of a mass exodus of offended troops if gays are allowed to serve

openly in the military.

In a preview of a debate McCain hopes to keep from reaching the Senate floor for a vote this month, opponents vehemently rejected a 10-month Pentagon study that found there would be minimal disruption in the ranks if Congress repealed the "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

At a hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee, they told Pentagon leaders they did not take seriously enough resistance from Army and Marine Corps combat and special-operations units. They also questioned whether the Pentagon survey of 115,000 troops was large enough to be representative.


McCain urged against a "rush to repeal." Citing "alarming" statistics in the report, he predicted as many as 265,000 service members, or 12 percent of the military, would leave the service if the policy were changed. And he asked why the 103-question survey of troops did not ask directly whether the policy should be repealed.

It doesn't really matter. If those people are too scared to serve with gays, I'm sure we can find more people who are willing to (and maybe even better qualified people).
 
I'm saying this idea that gay guys can't serve in "high-testosterone" units without hiding themselves is clearly incorrect, especially considering the overwhelming number of even marine combat units that said there wasn't a problem with their gay members. (84%)

Is 84% cherry picking?

The newer, more direct surveys, showe that over 60% of those in th line units dd not think it was a good idea. There will be enormous peer pressure in those units against gays who are too open about it. Their fellow soldiers will determine what is "too open". Trust me.

I am for the repeal of DADT btw. Have said so in other threads. But it will have its own special dynamics when implemented.
 
Pentagon Chiefs Tell Senate Panel: Repeal 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'

WASHINGTON (Dec. 2) -- Senate Republicans, led by Arizona's John McCain, today raised the specter of a mass exodus of offended troops if gays are allowed to serve

openly in the military.

In a preview of a debate McCain hopes to keep from reaching the Senate floor for a vote this month, opponents vehemently rejected a 10-month Pentagon study that found there would be minimal disruption in the ranks if Congress repealed the "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

At a hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee, they told Pentagon leaders they did not take seriously enough resistance from Army and Marine Corps combat and special-operations units. They also questioned whether the Pentagon survey of 115,000 troops was large enough to be representative.


McCain urged against a "rush to repeal." Citing "alarming" statistics in the report, he predicted as many as 265,000 service members, or 12 percent of the military, would leave the service if the policy were changed. And he asked why the 103-question survey of troops did not ask directly whether the policy should be repealed.

The Army is over strength and looking for ways to get rid of troops anyway.
 
Pentagon Chiefs Tell Senate Panel: Repeal 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'

WASHINGTON (Dec. 2) -- Senate Republicans, led by Arizona's John McCain, today raised the specter of a mass exodus of offended troops if gays are allowed to serve

openly in the military.

In a preview of a debate McCain hopes to keep from reaching the Senate floor for a vote this month, opponents vehemently rejected a 10-month Pentagon study that found there would be minimal disruption in the ranks if Congress repealed the "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

At a hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee, they told Pentagon leaders they did not take seriously enough resistance from Army and Marine Corps combat and special-operations units. They also questioned whether the Pentagon survey of 115,000 troops was large enough to be representative.


McCain urged against a "rush to repeal." Citing "alarming" statistics in the report, he predicted as many as 265,000 service members, or 12 percent of the military, would leave the service if the policy were changed. And he asked why the 103-question survey of troops did not ask directly whether the policy should be repealed.

McCain is just angry because he lost the erection er I mean election.
 
Gun picture in signature, very conservative label, recent registration, suspiciously nutty posting...

Yeah, I think you and I have drawn the same conclusion, a conclusion which we can't actually post here.

Recent registration? I registered March 2006. You registered February 2010. That means I registered three years and eleven months before you. Please refrain from saying retarded things.
 
Last edited:
Good question, especially for Obama and most Democrats. They hide and lie about who they are and what they want to do.

Unit cohesion isn't disrupted because someone has to keep their unusual sexual orientation to themselves. I use "unusual" because it's not usual. Homosexuality isn't the norm and can cause friction as the Commaders have testified.


Not too complicated; because it's the societal norm for eons. If we have gays, why not have transvestites? They're people too.

If you're basing what is the "norm" and what isn't based on how long it's been around perhaps you should read up on history? Homosexuality has been around for eons also.

BTW, why not allow transvestites to serve?
 
Wait, what?

Assumptions...

I was guessing that he was doing a tongue-in-cheek "suggestion" to be sarcastic - mainly because that's what I would have meant by a post like that...

But then, I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt far too often.

It was supposed to be funny, since people are repeatedly comparing DADT to racial segregation, which I find ridiculous. Africans are a race of people (who are mostly against gay marriage actually), and homosexuals are anyone who decides to lead a certain lifestyle. Of course, the flip side of that coin is now, if you're in any history class, you'll hear plenty about all japanese units or all black units that recieved dozens of medals during the world wars. Wouldn't it be hilarious if in fifty years, someone was reading about all-gay units?
 
It was supposed to be funny, since people are repeatedly comparing DADT to racial segregation, which I find ridiculous. Africans are a race of people (who are mostly against gay marriage actually), and homosexuals are anyone who decides to lead a certain lifestyle. Of course, the flip side of that coin is now, if you're in any history class, you'll hear plenty about all japanese units or all black units that recieved dozens of medals during the world wars. Wouldn't it be hilarious if in fifty years, someone was reading about all-gay units?

I didn't decide to like poon tang, poon tang decided to like me.
 
And he asked why the 103-question survey of troops did not ask directly whether the policy should be repealed.

WTF! Has McCain completely flipped his lid? Now he wants to give a referendum to our troops? In the entire history of the US military we have never done anything that stupid. Not with the integration of African Americans, Not with the integration of women. Never. He has gone senile.
 
The wrong question was asked my left wing friend...The question is not how do we cancel DADT its should DADT be canceled.......You will get amd entirely different answer if you ask the latter..........

You want to give troops a referendum on military policy. Are you serously that anti gay?
 
You want to give troops a referendum on military policy. Are you seriously that anti gay?
I was under the impression that the study was more along the lines of "we're going to do this, people, and we want to know what effect it will have", not "should we do this?".

The military is NOT a democracy.
 
As I have mentioned in the thread. I am ex-military, conservative, and think we need to repeal DADT and get on with more important issues. But for the life of me, McCain just won another six years, and should he choose to run again, will be as a cadaver. Why he is pushing a referendum vote within the military, and warning of an exodus, makes no sense right now.

John. I respect you. But its the economy stupid.
 
Good question, especially for Obama and most Democrats. They hide and lie about who they are and what they want to do.
Irrelevant partisan nonsense.

Unit cohesion isn't disrupted because someone has to keep their unusual sexual orientation to themselves. I use "unusual" because it's not usual. Homosexuality isn't the norm and can cause friction as the Commaders have testified.
This study shows that the vast majority of units surveyed suffered no ill effects. Even combat units.


Not too complicated; because it's the societal norm for eons.
Other long-term societal norms:
Women being property
Black people being property
Human sacrifice
Using leeches in medical procedures

"We've always done it that way" is not sufficient grounds to deny people rights.


If we have gays, why not have transvestites? They're people too.
See, the scary part is that you think this is some absurd idea. What? Trannies get equal rights? NOT IN MY AMERICA!!!


Watch the video. And strange with all this support, congress doesn't have the votes to pass it.
What video?
So your new argument is "congress can't get the votes therefore we shouldn't do it?" Oh, well, I guess you support Obamacare now because there's not enough votes to repeal it!!


ROTFLOL... What... that we usually disagree with the socialists?

You heard it here folks. Gays serving openly is socialism.

The newer, more direct surveys, showe that over 60% of those in th line units dd not think it was a good idea. There will be enormous peer pressure in those units against gays who are too open about it. Their fellow soldiers will determine what is "too open". Trust me.

I am for the repeal of DADT btw. Have said so in other threads. But it will have its own special dynamics when implemented.

No, I'm not going to "trust you" because the survey says otherwise. Marine combat units were the most against repeal, but 84% of marine combat units that had served with homosexuals said it didn't matter. Sorry man, I'm going with the guys who have actual experience.

As I have mentioned in the thread. I am ex-military, conservative, and think we need to repeal DADT and get on with more important issues. But for the life of me, McCain just won another six years, and should he choose to run again, will be as a cadaver. Why he is pushing a referendum vote within the military, and warning of an exodus, makes no sense right now.

John. I respect you. But its the economy stupid.

Why would you respect him? He sure doesn't seem to respect you.
 
Last edited:
The wrong question was asked my left wing friend...The question is not how do we cancel DADT its should DADT be canceled.......You will get amd entirely different answer if you ask the latter..........

Say, NP, the Navy overall had the highest favorability towards repeal of DADT, followed closely by the Coast Guard. Does this change your opinion at all, seeing as how you're a boat jockey yourself? You have often remarked that if the military was for it, you'd be ok with it. I ask because it appears as though you're backing off on that.
 
Back
Top Bottom