Jobless Rate Rises to 9.8 Percent, Highest Since April(edited)

Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

Paschendale said:

The argument here, as far as I can see, is whether or not 9.8 counts as recession. I think it does. You don't. And there's 4 posts calling me an idiot for disagreeing about a term. Bravo.

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A lot of people would agree with you... I'm guessing that 9.8% of the nation's workforce could care less what the technical definition of a recession is.

Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

Conservative said:

So then the way to increase economic activity and create jobs is to raise taxes on the rich?

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Why the need to instantly resort to a logical fallacy? I've made no mention of deficit reduction during the period of the recovery.

Now why would any business invest not knowing the cost of that investment due to Obama policies?

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This is a poor argument, and of course, another logical fallacy. The reason business investment declined was not because of these Obama policies. Lack of consumer demand trumps all.

Get your nose out of the economics book and get out into the real world talking to actual business owners.

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Good job, make it three fallacies in a row! In case you haven't noticed the cost of owning and running a business has fallen since 2008.

Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

Whovian said:

Really? His supporters think he hasn't done enough? ya think, Captain Obvious???

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Or their old standby that he was dealt such a terrible hand, and it will take a long time to overcome the excesses of Bush.

Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

Goldenboy219 said:

Why the need to instantly resort to a logical fallacy? I've made no mention of deficit reduction during the period of the recovery.



This is a poor argument, and of course, another logical fallacy. The reason business investment declined was not because of these Obama policies. Lack of consumer demand trumps all.



Good job, make it three fallacies in a row! In case you haven't noticed the cost of owning and running a business has fallen since 2008.

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Guess I will just have to live with the fact that my falacies as you call them are backed up by actual results. The Private sector is not increasing jobs at a rate that is reducing the unemployment numbers, businesses aren't investing because consumer demand isn't there because of uncertainty as to what their costs will be next year thus are saving. My comments regarding raising taxes on the rich had nothing to do with deficit reduction because raising those taxes won't affect the deficit

Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

Shooterman said:

Or their old standby that he was dealt such a terrible hand, and it will take a long time to overcome the excesses of Bush.

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LOL, the excesses of Bush? How long are liberals going to blame Bush for the mess that Obama is creating? Are liberals ever going to wake up to the fact that Obama has made them look foolish? Facts obviously have no place in the liberal world so carry on, Obama supporters.

Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

Conservative said:

LOL, yep, that indirect affect on the economy led to more than 4 million more unemployed, 3 trillion added to the debt, and uncertainty on the part of businesses as to their costs going forward.

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This is your biased opinion. Still you fail to consider the magnitude of the 2008/2009 financial crisis. We are very lucky unemployment did not reach 1930's levels.

Yep, that hope and change is sure working out perfectly. You are right, spending all that money hasn't been stimulative, so why was it done in the way it was spent?

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There is a difference between stimulative, and adequately stimulative. It was deficit hawks (who you support) that forced the inadequate stimulus.

Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

Conservative said:

How is that hope and change working out for you? Why does anyone buy the rhetoric from this Administration?

The recession ended in June 2009 and yet today we have higher unemployment each month of 2010 than we had in 2009, the last year of the recession? Are the remaining Obama supporters ever going to admit they have been duped by the rhetoric of this empty suit?

Jobless Rate Rises to 9.8 Percent, Highest Since April - FoxNews.com

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The recession didn't end. It's just that the people who government cares about (Wallstreet, banks, all the ones who donate large amounts of money, etc.) aren't feeling the pinch anymore so they think we're done and in the clear. The People had suffered before then and continue to suffer now. But it's all the same ol' same ol'. Obama ain't any different from any other Republocrat out there. People who thought so were fools. Take care of the aristocracy, **** the rest of us. That's the Republocrat motto.

Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

Dutch said:

Well, in all fairness he did increase the size, scope, and power of the federal government. The economic situation we've experienced was simply an excuse to do so. Any real american liberal/leftists knows this. So, no, no one was actually duped, except for some of the independents who actually believed his campaign promises and put him into office in the first place. It's really quite amazing just how easy it is to pull one over on political neophytes.

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You have GOT to be kidding? Increased the size of government? No new branch of government has been created under Pres. Obama that I'm aware of. If anything, he had the courage to revised, rename and re-align the department that issues offshore oil drilling permits to strengthen the permitting process, increase inspections on offshore oil rigs and strengthen the permit application and inspection processes. And yes, that meant hiring more inspectors and administrative staff, but I'd rather he had done that to help keep oil plantforms and our coastlines safer than to allow things to remain as they were prior to the BP oil spill. Those who critisize these measures...apparently you prefer another major, collosal oil spill in the GOM over doing what's right and fixing the permit and inspection processes to ensure as best we can that another major oil spill off our shores never happens again.

But if you really want to complain about the size and inefficiency of government, maybe you should look into our intellegence agencies, i.e., the Department of Homeland Security. Mind you before you come to the department's defense, you must first know how much unnecessary redundency and duplication we have in our intelligence and counterterrorism agencies and how many millions of U.S. dollars they waste every year. Of course, no one complains much or enough about it because the waste is heavily defended (mostly by the Right) in the name of protecting the homeland and defending our national security.

I'm not against doing these things (defending our shores against terrorism). I just think our foreign and domestic intellegence aporatus can work much more efficiently without so much waste and un-necessary redundency. But like I said, few want to talk about this issue because anyone who brouches the subject of waste and inefficiency within our intellegency agencies must be "non-patriotic/unAmerican". :eyeroll:

Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

Conservative said:

Guess I will just have to live with the fact that my falacies as you call them are backed up by actual results.

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You brought up something completely irrelevant to the discussion for one, you attacked a strawman for two, and used an ad ohm in three so to avoid making a competent statement. Reading comprehension is necessary for discussion.

The Private sector is not increasing jobs at a rate that is reducing the unemployment numbers, businesses aren't investing because consumer demand isn't there

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Correct up to this point.

because of uncertainty as to what their costs will be next year thus are saving.

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This is only partially correct. Some people are saving (which includes consumer deleveraging), others have seen their incomes fall close to zero. Consumption demand falls in a 1:1 fashion with income. Unemployment benefits are necessary to prevent demand from falling further, as they push consumption up by providing a limited income for necessities.

My comments regarding raising taxes on the rich had nothing to do with deficit reduction because raising those taxes won't affect the deficit

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Raising taxes during this stage does not help short/medium term growth outlooks. Once the unemployment rate is at an acceptable level, tax increases combined with spending reductions are a requirement for a sustainable government.

Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

Ikari said:

The recession didn't end. It's just that the people who government cares about (Wallstreet, banks, all the ones who donate large amounts of money, etc.) aren't feeling the pinch anymore so they think we're done and in the clear. The People had suffered before then and continue to suffer now. But it's all the same ol' same ol'. Obama ain't any different from any other Republocrat out there. People who thought so were fools. Take care of the aristocracy, **** the rest of us. That's the Republocrat motto.

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Why anyone would take posts like your seriously is beyond me. We live in a country where there is plenty of room at the top for all but it takes work, hard work, risk taking, initiative, and drive which many aren't willing to do. It is always someone else's fault for personal failures. Please tell me how Wall Street, Banks, or anyone else hurt you or your family personally? Why would anyone work so hard to destroy the greatest economy on the face of the earth by promoting class warfare and envy?

Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

Conservative said:

My point is if you spend a couple trillion dollars and get these kind of results you would be fired and that is what should happen to Obama. All Obama did was increase unemployment and the debt for his trillions in spending and that doesn't bode well for anyone.

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Whether you believe the stimulus was ineffective or insufficient -- it failed. Obama promised that unemployment wouldn't go above 8%... and now it's over 9% for the longest period in history, with no end in sight.

So yes, unless we see a *big* turnaround in the next couple of years, it will certainly make it very difficult for Obama to be reelected... but you never know, what if his opponent is a Republican version of John Kerry?

Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

Conservative said:

Please tell me how Wall Street, Banks, or anyone else hurt you or your family personally?

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So you have drive, initiative, you worked hard, you took risks, and because some banks made bad bets you lost your house due to no fault of your own, you also lost your medical care because little Timmy got sick, and your premiums skyrocketed...

tell me how that's fair, and shouldn't have been changed and regulated?

Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

Taylor said:

Whether you believe the stimulus was ineffective or insufficient -- it failed. Obama promised that unemployment wouldn't go above 8%... and now it's over 9% for the longest period in history, with no end in sight.

So yes, unless we see a *big* turnaround in the next couple of years, it will certainly make it very difficult for Obama to be reelected... but you never know, what if his opponent is a Republican version of John Kerry?

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Obama fooled a lot of people with his rhetoric and put them in a trance so they ignored his resume. He won the election with 52% of the vote, today his approval rating is about 40% so he lost 12% of his support. Those people woke up, others never will.

Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

Jetboogieman said:

So you have drive, initiative, you worked hard, you took risks, and because some banks made bad bets you lost your house due to no fault of your own, you also lost your medical care because little Timmy got sick, and your premiums skyrocketed...

tell me how that's fair, and shouldn't have been changed and regulated?

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So how did you lose your house through no fault of yours? Who forced you to buy a home you couldn't afford?

How many people went bankrupt because they couldn't get care for their sick child? Stop with the typical liberal bs.

Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

Conservative said:

Why anyone would take posts like your seriously is beyond me. We live in a country where there is plenty of room at the top for all but it takes work, hard work, risk taking, initiative, and drive which many aren't willing to do. It is always someone else's fault for personal failures. Please tell me how Wall Street, Banks, or anyone else hurt you or your family personally? Why would anyone work so hard to destroy the greatest economy on the face of the earth by promoting class warfare and envy?

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Because the point is to close off economic mobility. Economic mobility doesn't just mean that the poor can get rich through hard work. It also means the rich can get poor through stupidity. And that's the direction that the aristocracy would like to close off. Wall street and the banks hurt all of us. The removal of proper oversight and regulation along with the ability to form oligopoly (thanks to Clinton) allowed them to operate in a way which drove the system to break. Thus we all got burned. Then the government takes our money and gives it to the very people who broke the system. Hate to break it to you. The greatest economy on the face of the earth was already broken and it was broken through class warfare. Free market capitalism does not exist in the US, hasn't for some time.

And now we have near 10% unemployment, but there's no push to solve anything because the government has already protected the aristocracy. The real quesion isn't "how can one take my post seriously". But rather "how can one not consider the data on hand".

Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

Goldenboy219 said:

We are very lucky unemployment did not reach 1930's levels.

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Chicken poop.

The single worst month of job losses was Jan of '09 (779k jobs lost). We could have sustained losses like that for over two consecutive years and still not "reached 1930's levels."

Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

Objective Voice said:

You have GOT to be kidding? Increased the size of government? No new branch of government has been created under Pres. Obama that I'm aware of.

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Largest-ever federal payroll to hit 2.15 million - Washington Times

The era of big government has returned with a vengeance, in the form of the largest federal work force in modern history.

The Obama administration says the government will grow to 2.15 million employees this year, topping 2 million for the first time since President Clinton declared that "the era of big government is over" and joined forces with a Republican-led Congress in the 1990s to pare back the federal work force.

Most of the increases are on the civilian side, which will grow by 153,000 workers, to 1.43 million people, in fiscal 2010.

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The data also show that the Department of Homeland Security will grow by 7,000 a year in 2010 and 2011, and the Veterans Affairs Department will grow by 12,000 in 2010 and an additional 4,000 in 2011.

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As he left office in 2000, Mr. Clinton boasted that his administration had helped cut 377,000 government jobs, leaving the smallest civilian federal work force since 1960.

Mr. Obama, though, appears to be accepting a larger federal work force.

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Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

Taylor said:

Chicken poop.

The single worst month of job losses was Jan of '09 (779k jobs lost). We could have sustained losses like that for over two consecutive years and still not "reached 1930's levels."

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Either you are bad with math, or you fail to grasp just how how a financial collapse affects jobs.

Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

Ikari said:

Because the point is to close off economic mobility. Economic mobility doesn't just mean that the poor can get rich through hard work. It also means the rich can get poor through stupidity. And that's the direction that the aristocracy would like to close off. Wall street and the banks hurt all of us. The removal of proper oversight and regulation along with the ability to form oligopoly (thanks to Clinton) allowed them to operate in a way which drove the system to break. Thus we all got burned. Then the government takes our money and gives it to the very people who broke the system. Hate to break it to you. The greatest economy on the face of the earth was already broken and it was broken through class warfare. Free market capitalism does not exist in the US, hasn't for some time.

And now we have near 10% unemployment, but there's no push to solve anything because the government has already protected the aristocracy. The real quesion isn't "how can one take my post seriously". But rather "how can one not consider the data on hand".

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I spent 35 years in the business world and went through a number of recessions with the 81-82 being much worse than this one, try paying over 17% for a home mortgage, having a 20+ misery index, or having over 10% unemployment? Today a depression is not being able to get that new IPhone or ticket to a popular concert. To many people have adopted an entitlement mentality and using the argument of violations of their freedoms to destroy economic freedoms. We live in a country where there are negative and positive consequences for personal choices. Liberals don't like that reality.

There is a reason that democracies fail all around the world and many here are trying to make that happen in this country. Barack Obama is doing nothing to promote the private sector growth and thus there isn't any. He is making the economy worse and that is leading more and more on the left to call for more drastic actions on his part, actions that are making unemployment higher.

Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

Conservative said:

There is a reason that democracies fail all around the world and many here are trying to make that happen in this country. Barack Obama is doing nothing to promote the private sector growth and thus there isn't any. He is making the economy worse and that is leading more and more on the left to call for more drastic actions on his part, actions that are making unemployment higher.

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Please, what have any of the Republocrats done recently to "promote the private sector growth"? You want to sit there and point at Obama. Oh it's his fault, the liberals don't like this and that. Blah blah blah blah blah. The truth is we've been on a slow decline for quite some time now, and it has been the Republocrats who have been in charge over that period. It's not just the liberals fault, both Republican and Democrat are pushing for the same thing, expansion of their power and proliferation of the status quo. This recession wasn't caused on his watch, it was Bush. Obama has merely expanded upon it.

Republicans and Democrats aren't going to save us, they're the ones who put us in this hole.

Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

Grant said:

A "jobless recovery" might be part of that hopeychangey thing but the "debt recovery" situation remains far hopey and and will probably not changey.

This poor bugger is still thinking of himself as "present" rather than President. Even with a majority in power he still can't decide what to do about a simple issue like tax rates.

It was a perfect storm, from an unpopular former president to a weak Republican candidate, that got this buffoon elected. Let's just hope he doesn't do to much damage in his remaining two years in office.

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If taxes go up that will be another job killer. Obama sure is good at destroying jobs, and discouraging job growth. I'm thinking that was the goal all along. Soon everyone will have to turn to the government to save them.

Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

Barbbtx said:

If taxes go up that will be another job killer. Obama sure is good at destroying jobs, and discouraging job growth. I'm thinking that was the goal all along. Soon everyone will have to turn to the government to save them.

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Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

Barbbtx said:

If taxes go up that will be another job killer. Obama sure is good at destroying jobs, and discouraging job growth. I'm thinking that was the goal all along. Soon everyone will have to turn to the government to save them.

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Everyone does run to the government to save them. If it's not economics, it's terrorists. How many people who blaming Obama for this current mess also say the TSA is a good thing, our wars in the ME are a good thing, etc. People need to look in the mirror before they start pointing fingers.

Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

Conservative said:

LOL, the excesses of Bush? How long are liberals going to blame Bush for the mess that Obama is creating? Are liberals ever going to wake up to the fact that Obama has made them look foolish? Facts obviously have no place in the liberal world so carry on, Obama supporters.

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Don't get me wrong. George Bush was not one of my favorite people, but compared to The Clown in The Center Ring we now have, he was absolutely brilliant.

Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

Barbbtx said:

If taxes go up that will be another job killer. Obama sure is good at destroying jobs, and discouraging job growth. I'm thinking that was the goal all along. Soon everyone will have to turn to the government to save them.

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Enlighten us as to how increased payroll taxes increase the cost of labor. Not that i disagree with increased payroll taxes as a negative for growth, only your application is incorrect.