• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Mullen fires back at McCain’s ‘don’t ask’ repeal criticism

Re: McCain vs The Pentagon

Then they should have gotten those soundbites.

"The chair recognizes the Senator from Alabama"

"Chair, I object to unanimous consent."

Or something to that effect. Procedural language in the Senate doesn't make for very good soundbites.
 
Re: McCain vs The Pentagon

You don't have to read the phone book to filibuster anymore. You literally just need one single GOP senator to sit in his seat and challenge unanimous consent whenever someone moves to go to vote or whatever.

You really should have to actually filibuster. The basic tactic in the senate now is to prevent debates and votes, and constantly edit bills in committee or behind closed doors. Public debate has all but evaporated in the senate and it's really very contrary to their role as outlined in the constitution. They know what they're doing is wrong, and we know it too. We really should stop letting them do it.
 
Re: McCain vs The Pentagon

You really should have to actually filibuster. The basic tactic in the senate now is to prevent debates and votes, and constantly edit bills in committee or behind closed doors. Public debate has all but evaporated in the senate and it's really very contrary to their role as outlined in the constitution. They know what they're doing is wrong, and we know it too. We really should stop letting them do it.

They want America to fail until 2012. It's pretty sickening.
 
Re: McCain vs The Pentagon

"The chair recognizes the Senator from Alabama"

"Chair, I object to unanimous consent."

Or something to that effect. Procedural language in the Senate doesn't make for very good soundbites.

I don't know. If you ran an ad with a full thirty seconds of nothing but that, it would make a very profound point.
 
Re: McCain vs The Pentagon

Both parties are guilty of doing it. The problem is the rule not the parties.

I agree. Good luck getting them to change it though. For the most part, both parties do what they accuse each other of doing. That's politics.
 
Re: McCain vs The Pentagon

Yes, the Dems really are a giant cruiseliner of Fail. It's amazing that they allowed the GOP to control congress even as the minority party.

yes, it's because my side has the american people behind us

pros knew this BEFORE tsunami tuesday, november 2

the white house line, that it's a messaging problem, is only more self delusion

stay up
 
Re: McCain vs The Pentagon

yes, it's because my side has the american people behind us

pros knew this BEFORE tsunami tuesday, november 2

the white house line, that it's a messaging problem, is only more self delusion

stay up

No evidence that the American public is against repeal of DADT.
 
Re: McCain vs The Pentagon

No evidence that the American public is against repeal of DADT.

Powerful evidence of the opposite, in fact.
 
They want America to fail until 2012. It's pretty sickening.

The Democrats want the same thing the Republicans do. They differ on minor points, which develop into large differences, granted, but they aren't nearly as significant as the machine would have you believe.

Every 4 years we get together and vote on who we want to violate international law and continually pander to the plutocracy. They've got us convinced that there are differences worth getting really worked up over. In the end the same policies end up being enforced, no matter which wing of the corporate party, Democrat or Republican, is in power.

The same things are happening, prisoners are still at Guantanamo, the Obama Justice department has been fighting the court rulings on Bush's torture, he'll more than likely renew the Bush tax cuts, his deficit commission is even recommending cutting corporate tax and top personal tax rates 10 to 12% below what they currently are even with the Bush Tax cuts.

Does any of this sound like a big change president? They realized the public was sick of it so they ran a campaign on change and did more or less exactly the same thing.


No evidence that the American public is against repeal of DADT.

Quite the contrary. Here are some statistics from acclaimed polling organization Gallup:

xzvb522js0crafpzlc-woa.gif


7-clt_ay1uqdjyx9dajsmg.gif


That's 56% who find repealing it ASAP important within the lame-duck session, and 70% who support the repeal in general, regardless of the time frame.

You can find a link to this data here

I really hope this helps :)
 
Last edited:
Re: McCain vs The Pentagon

I agree that november 2nd was a disaster for this country.

agree with whom?

your opinion is as valid as any

the strong majority, however, strongly, with growing passion, DISagree with you

biggest wave election since 1938, the house, 700 state reps, 21 legislatures, 10 gubs, 6 senate seats...

party on, pal

and thanks
 
Re: McCain vs The Pentagon

yes, it's because my side has the american people behind us

pros knew this BEFORE tsunami tuesday, november 2

the white house line, that it's a messaging problem, is only more self delusion

stay up

Less than half of people (adults legally able to vote, in this case) in this country vote. The American people aren't behind anyone.
 
Last edited:
Re: McCain vs The Pentagon

agree with whom?

your opinion is as valid as any

the strong majority, however, strongly, with growing passion, DISagree with you

biggest wave election since 1938, the house, 700 state reps, 21 legislatures, 10 gubs, 6 senate seats...

party on, pal

and thanks

Politics works in cycles because ultimately neither party provides anything even remotely resembling what the people want. Every four or eight years the public forgets what happened the last time the opposition was in power and elect them, given that the mass dissatisfaction with the incumbent is still fresh in memory.

The only reason they manage to get a second term is because they raise the Presidency up to celebrity status when it's the House and Senate that are crutial. Politics is 100% power. And money is power. Dissatisfaction with Congress is at colossal levels, and the same people get elected because they can outspend the competition with corporate money.

The status quo is just brilliant for those in business and politics.

Within this decade there'll be another shift and it'll look like the Republicans have no chance again, it happened in 2008, and the Democrats called it the "end of the Republican Party". Ironic given that they changed barely anything.

Peace.
 
Last edited:
Re: McCain vs The Pentagon

the same people get elected because they can outspend the competition with corporate money.

tell it to ann kirkpatrick, walt minnick, ike skelton, john spratt, jim oberstar, stephonie herseth sandlin, earl pomeroy, kathy dahlkamper, michael arcuri, scott murphy, patrick murphy, chris carney, dan maffei, steve driehaus, paul kanjorski, charlie wilson, john adler, dina heck, bobby bright, suzanne kosmas, alan grayson, allen boyd, gene taylor, frank kratovil, tom perriello, rick boucher, ron klein, mary joe kilroy, phil hare, bill foster, ciro rodriguez, solomon ortiz, betsy markey, john salazar...


back atcha

stay classy
 
Re: McCain vs The Pentagon

agree with whom?

your opinion is as valid as any

the strong majority, however, strongly, with growing passion, DISagree with you

biggest wave election since 1938, the house, 700 state reps, 21 legislatures, 10 gubs, 6 senate seats...

party on, pal

and thanks

On the other hand, this "big wave" ended up with a minority in the senate and a 5% majority in the house, less than what the Democrats took in 2008.
 
Re: McCain vs The Pentagon

And they have been replaced with whom? I'm not talking about the changes from democratic to republican and vice versa, they are of little consequence. The approval of Congress will still stay significantly below 50%. Even after the elections it's still at 17%.

No significant change ever happens. Both parties essentially do the same thing, with slight deviations (The Democrats initially support reforms then cave in and pass the Republican proposal from 10 years ago, or water it down to the point where it hurts the middle/lower classes and helps the rich elite, while the Republicans don't bother with any of that). Regardless, the outcome is more or less the same, it has been for decades, and will remain so.

Congratulations. You've succeeded in getting the business agenda passed through Congress without a few months of Democrats acting like it's not what they want. I don't see how anything has changed.
 
Re: McCain vs The Pentagon

Congratulations now the Democratic wing of the corporate party will pass the policies that were going to be passed anyway... only with an excuse for its base.

What has the Democratic Party done with its 2 years in office? Well it's maintained Bush foreign policy (this was a given), the bush tax cuts will certainly be renewed, healthcare reform was nothing more than a gift to the corporate world, etc, etc. Shall I continue?

This changes nothing. I don't know if you've realized it by now but I'm not at all pro-Democratic wing, I don't know why people keep treating me like I am.
 
Re: McCain vs The Pentagon

You know what they say about opinions...Everyone has one so here is mine.

McCain looks to have flip-flopped on DADT because he said if told by top brass it was ok to repeal he would probably support the repeal.
He flat out lied. He did not think that there would ever be an ok from top brass but he looked good to voters at a time when he needed them to back him.

Now that it is IN HIS FACE he has no choice but to show his true feelings on the matter but is trying hard to not flat out say I DON'T WANT gays in the military thus all the excuses but if you look close at his face when he talks his true intent shows.

Probably in his elderly mind he thinks is doing the right thing by stopping his military from being harmed by all those who would not only feminize it but demoralize our Christian nation.
 
Re: McCain vs The Pentagon

On the other hand, this "big wave" ended up with a minority in the senate and a 5% majority in the house, less than what the Democrats took in 2008.

nonsense

a pickup of 63 house seats is the most either party has grabbed in congressionals since 1938, the year after the great roosevelt recession of 37

newt's net +54 in 1994 is second

Midterm election trends - Washington Times

boehner's broads and boys will control lower house by exactly 50 votes, 242-192

RealClearPolitics - 2010 Election Maps - House Final Results

50 is 11.5% of 434

in 2008, dems netted +21

at the state level:

While the Republican gains in the House and Senate are grabbing the most headlines, the most significant results on Tuesday came in state legislatures where Republicans wiped the floor with Democrats.

Republicans picked up 680 seats in state legislatures, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures -- the most in the modern era. To put that number in perspective: In the 1994 GOP wave, Republicans picked up 472 seats. The previous record was in the post-Watergate election of 1974, when Democrats picked up 628 seats.

Devastation: GOP Picks Up 680 State Leg. Seats - Hotline On Call

13 democrat state reps, by the way, have switched parties since nov 2

Dem State Lawmakers Defecting To GOP Post-election - CBS News

as for the senate, did you know there are 12 to 14 democrats with real reason to worry over 2012 versus only one lonely republican realistically in danger, scott brown

tester in WY, nelson in NB, conrad in ND, webb in VA, casey in PA, nelson in FL, mccaskill in MO, stabenow in MI, kohl in WI, brown in OH, bingaman in NM, klobuchar in MN...

manchin's reupped in '12, maria cantwell, lieberman

difi will be 80

If Senate Democrats think 2010 is a tough cycle, just wait two more years. They’ll probably hold the Senate majority Tuesday — with a couple of seats to spare, most analysts believe. But 2012 is a different story. By then, Republicans will be poised to take control of the Senate — with pickup possibilities scattered across the map and a much narrower base of their own to defend.

It’s not simply the lopsided mathematics — with at least 21 Democratic seats on the table in 2012, including two independents who sit with the Democrats, compared with 10 Republicans. It’s where the seats are located. Start with Democratic seats in three states where President Barack Obama lost in 2008: Nebraska, North Dakota and Montana. Then go down a list of where Democrats are poised to lose Senate battles this year — Ohio, Florida and Missouri, for example — and Democrats will be right back at it in 2012, defending seats there again. Throw in some bona fide tossup states — Virginia and New Mexico — and it’s pretty hard not to picture Republicans picking off the handful of seats needed to take control, if Tuesday goes as well for the GOP as experts expect.

Tougher road ahead for Senate Dems - Shira Toeplitz - POLITICO.com

it is what it is, history
 
Last edited:
back to the topic

yesterday afternoon, 4:21pm, eastern

The clock is running out for Senate Democrats to repeal “don’t ask, don’t tell” this month. A combination of the shrinking legislative calendar, other White House priorities and testimony Friday from two service chiefs saying now is not the right time to repeal, means the controversial policy may continue to be the law of the land.

Any chance for passage now rests with the Obama administration, and how much it wants to push to lift the ban, especially given other concerns, such as the START nuclear arms reduction treaty. But advocates Friday were not enthusiastic. “I’m very concerned that the White House waited too long to move, Democrats have not pushed hard enough, and that the pressure to do tax cuts, unemployment and START mean this won't get done,” Richard Socarides, an attorney who consulted with the Clinton White House on gay rights issues, told POLITICO.

Friday, Sen. Jon Kyl (R-Ariz.) says the defense bill containing language allowing for repeal of "don't ask, don't tell" is dead for the year because there simply isn't enough time in the lame duck session, In an interview on the Hugh Hewitt radio program, Kyl said the pending defense authorization bill — which includes conditional repeal of the gays-in-the-military ban — will not pass. "There’s not going to be time to do it this year now before Christmas," Kyl said.

A Republican staffer echoed that concern. “The administration wants START,” the staffer told POLITICO.

'Don?t ask, don?t tell' repeal loses momentum - Gordon Lubold - POLITICO.com

sorry
 
It's not new by any means for the government to go against the will of 70% of the people. They do it all the time.

At The Prof, give it at most a decade and the tables will be turned and the Republican wing will be in the same position the Democratic wing is now. Guaranteed. The Republicans are running a change campaign so if they get a victory in 2012 (likely) the chances of being reelected in 2016 are reduced quite significantly.

Not that any of this squabble between either wing makes any significant difference in outcomes.
 
Back
Top Bottom