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House Passes Middle-Class Tax Cut as Dems, GOP Try to Reach Compromise

The Giant Noodle said:
When something is not needed, people get angry. When people have an large abundance and others live paycheck to paycheck working thier ass off for 12 hours a day plus overtime or somoeone cant even find a job..... and THEN the ones with a large abundance get even MORE breaks..... you can see why people would get ticked.
These individuals deserve ZERO tax gifts. If..... IF.... they own a company.... then the company should get certain tax incentives to grow their business. Then that individual who OWNS that company should be happy as a clam.

Its common sense (only for folks that have it)
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so you essentially are a marxist

from each according to their ability

envy of those who do better

do you think kids who make straight A's in high school should have to give some of their A marks to the lazy and the stupid who earn only D's?
 
You know, the Republicans are in the wrong here, and so are the Democrats. I am going to take an extremely unpopular position, but at least it will be an honest one.

The budget needs to be balanced. That means no tax cuts for the wealthy, no tax cuts for the middle class, and no tax cuts for the poor. No tax cuts at all, but a tax increase instead. We are not going to be able to spend our way out of this one, and although spending decreases will help, it won't be enough. We will also have to raise taxes, if we are going to have any hope of balancing the budget, and once again living within our means. To do otherwise is going to be economic suicide.

But some of you will exclaim "What an order. This isn't fair". To that, I reply "Yes, it IS fair". Or would you try and tell me that none of us is responsible for his or her actions? You and I, the American people, voted for those who ran our economy off a cliff, and therefore, we are ALL responsible. The time for blaming the politicians is long past. We voted for them. Now we must accept the consequences, as a people, for our own actions.

To the rich - You are disgusting, and you make me want to puke. Stop your God damn whining, and suck it up. YOU voted for what happened.

To the middle class - You too. YOU voted for what happened, so man up, and take what's coming, ya' damn crybabies.

To the poor - YOU voted for it too. Suck it up. It is time to pay for what you voted for. Quit your damn sniveling.

To ALL of you - Did you really think for a second that we could support spending our nation into the poor house without there being consequences? Well, the consequences have now come home to roost. Quit being a bunch of damn crybabies, and start taking a little responsibility for what YOU did to our country.

And now, once again, since I have now pissed off just about everybody, it is flameproof suit time for me. :mrgreen:
 
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danarhea said:
You know, the Republicans are in the wrong here, and so are the Democrats. I am going to take an extremely unpopular position, but at least it will be an honest one.
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Wow, you must really want that asshat of the year award:D

But seriously, good post. I agree with some of it.
 
TurtleDude said:
so you essentially are a marxist

from each according to their ability

envy of those who do better

do you think kids who make straight A's in high school should have to give some of their A marks to the lazy and the stupid who earn only D's?
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I hate this ad hom garbage.

So essentially you are a fascist

the weak deserve to die off and struggle because they are by design inferior

discriminate against people who do not conform to your authoritarian and sick worldview

do you think just because you are smart and intelligent you should have special priviledge under the American democratic system?

:D see its easy!
 
Z3n said:
I know right? Look at all the millionaires and billionaires that we currently have(absurd amount of income inequality) and look at the employment levels! Rich people create jobs for bank tellers when they slap it in the bank! :D
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Valid question. The tax rate for the highest earners is scheduled to rise from 35% to 39%. How high do you think it should go? Got any limit in mind for just how high of a rate those evil bastards should have to pay? 50%? 70%? 100%...?


.
 
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I support progressive income taxation.
 
Deuce said:
Wealthy people don't create jobs just because they have the money to do it. Why is that so hard for conservatives to understand?

If demand is not sufficient to justify a new hire, there isn't going to be a new hire even if the tax rates are 0%.
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But it is never that simple and obvious to an entrepeneur in business, which is what all these small businesses are. Whatever the given demand is, government now wants to increase the risk to the entrepeneur. The gubmit cut changes the dynamic of all risk. To pretend it does not is to be ... like a Democrat !!
 
upsideguy said:
People over $250K create the jobs? This has to be one of the biggest myths of the century......

First, we are talking about taxes on personal income, not corporate income. Generally, corporations create jobs (and few pay taxes). The only job creating individuals that you could be talking about are filing as LLC or partners. Lower tax rates to those individuals actually encourage them to take money out of their business RATHER than investing in jobs. With higher tax rates, these persons would beter incented to create the job as it would actually cost them less out of pocket (as they get a tax deduction of the job and a higher tax rate means the tax deduction is worth more.)

Jobs are not created as a result of changing tax rates... they are created when businesses believe that granting a job will create a ROI rooted in increased sales or lower costs. They are created by demand for a product or service. Anyone that has ever done any investment analysis knows the taxes are no better than a tretiary consideration. I, for one, am a job creator. I started a business in 2009. I have 4 full-time employees and 20 part-time employees. Though I once was in the high tax bracket, my business, as a start-up (and person) will pay zero taxes, as I will lose money for the first 18 months. You can double, triple or half taxes and it makes zero difference to my endeavor, as I am chasing a market. Taxes, right now, are almost completely irrelevant as during my start-up phase I pay ZERO taxes (personally or corporately). Moreover, I will pay zero taxes until I fully recover my investment. So, the higher the tax rate, the better that savings to me as we start making money and recovering our investment (really close, thank you)

People that think this tax adjustment on the higher incomes will produce jobs either have no clue how business investment actually occurs, or more likely, are just intellectually dishonest. Are you serious about creating incentives for employment? Trying raising the tax rates on individuals earning...say more than $1.0 million to 50%
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Your post completely ignores the risk-reward dynamic and the burden of the usual #1 expense to any business: payroll. Higher taxes on that ROI, which is what the remaining Dems who did not lose their jobs want, increase the risk, and therefor the cost. Its very simple, unless one chooses to be dense. Those who are net recipients of government largesse tend to be dense, btw.
 
TurtleDude said:
You really have no clue what I do.

what sort of job do you have-assuming there is one
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You told me you're a civil trial lawyer or is that not your career de jour today? ;)

I run two businesses. I'm a capitalist but no overpaid.
 
danarhea said:
You know, the Republicans are in the wrong here, and so are the Democrats. I am going to take an extremely unpopular position, but at least it will be an honest one.

The budget needs to be balanced. That means no tax cuts for the wealthy, no tax cuts for the middle class, and no tax cuts for the poor. No tax cuts at all, but a tax increase instead. We are not going to be able to spend our way out of this one, and although spending decreases will help, it won't be enough. We will also have to raise taxes, if we are going to have any hope of balancing the budget, and once again living within our means. To do otherwise is going to be economic suicide.

But some of you will exclaim "What an order. This isn't fair". To that, I reply "Yes, it IS fair". Or would you try and tell me that none of us is responsible for his or her actions? You and I, the American people, voted for those who ran our economy off a cliff, and therefore, we are ALL responsible. The time for blaming the politicians is long past. We voted for them. Now we must accept the consequences, as a people, for our own actions.

To the rich - You are disgusting, and you make me want to puke. Stop your God damn whining, and suck it up. YOU voted for what happened.

To the middle class - You too. YOU voted for what happened, so man up, and take what's coming, ya' damn crybabies.

To the poor - YOU voted for it too. Suck it up. It is time to pay for what you voted for. Quit your damn sniveling.

To ALL of you - Did you really think for a second that we could support spending our nation into the poor house without there being consequences? Well, the consequences have now come home to roost. Quit being a bunch of damn crybabies, and start taking a little responsibility for what YOU did to our country.

And now, once again, since I have now pissed off just about everybody, it is flameproof suit time for me. :mrgreen:
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Not once do you mention to reduce spending. Even the debt commission recommended a formula that was 3:1 spending cuts to tax increases. The American people will not, and should not, absorb tax increases while we have a Democrat congress and assclown in the WH that have been the most fiscally irresponsible in the history of the Republic.
 
danarhea said:
You know, the Republicans are in the wrong here, and so are the Democrats. I am going to take an extremely unpopular position, but at least it will be an honest one.

The budget needs to be balanced. That means no tax cuts for the wealthy, no tax cuts for the middle class, and no tax cuts for the poor. No tax cuts at all, but a tax increase instead. We are not going to be able to spend our way out of this one, and although spending decreases will help, it won't be enough. We will also have to raise taxes, if we are going to have any hope of balancing the budget, and once again living within our means. To do otherwise is going to be economic suicide.

But some of you will exclaim "What an order. This isn't fair". To that, I reply "Yes, it IS fair". Or would you try and tell me that none of us is responsible for his or her actions? You and I, the American people, voted for those who ran our economy off a cliff, and therefore, we are ALL responsible. The time for blaming the politicians is long past. We voted for them. Now we must accept the consequences, as a people, for our own actions.

To the rich - You are disgusting, and you make me want to puke. Stop your God damn whining, and suck it up. YOU voted for what happened.

To the middle class - You too. YOU voted for what happened, so man up, and take what's coming, ya' damn crybabies.

To the poor - YOU voted for it too. Suck it up. It is time to pay for what you voted for. Quit your damn sniveling.

To ALL of you - Did you really think for a second that we could support spending our nation into the poor house without there being consequences? Well, the consequences have now come home to roost. Quit being a bunch of damn crybabies, and start taking a little responsibility for what YOU did to our country.

And now, once again, since I have now pissed off just about everybody, it is flameproof suit time for me. :mrgreen:
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everyone should pay the same rate then. the middle class has far more votes and uses far more resources than the rich so they ought to pay the same rate. everyone ought to pay 20% tax rate. The rich will still pay far far more than their share and the poor will still pay far far less

but you have to prove tax hikes will mean more revenue

I doubt you can prove that
 
EnigmaO01 said:
You told me you're a civil trial lawyer or is that not your career de jour today? ;)

I run two businesses. I'm a capitalist but no overpaid.
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in other words you aren't very successful
 
Z3n said:
I support progressive income taxation.
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why? it is unfair and allows the dems to buy the votes of people like you
 
EnigmaO01 said:
What ever makes you feel superior, but I do just fine and I sleep just fine at night.
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you libs confuse being economically successful with superiority. I am economically superior to you but I never claim that makes me a better person. But I tire of the envy that permeates much of the raise the taxes crowd
 
Cole said:
Valid question. The tax rate for the highest earners is scheduled to rise from 35% to 39%. How high do you think it should go? Got any limit in mind for just how high of a rate those evil bastards should have to pay? 50%? 70%? 100%...?


.
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How about the rate it was prior to the time it was passed By A Single Vote....Cheneys.
 
TurtleDude said:
why? it is unfair and allows the dems to buy the votes of people like you
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If you make more, you should pay more in taxes. If you think that that disincentivizes someone to not as work hard and earn a nice buck, than you are more than welcome to take a minimum wage job and pay 'less taxes'
 
donc said:
How about the rate it was prior to the time it was passed By A Single Vote....Cheneys.
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Really not asking for a "how about". What do you (or any others if favor of raising taxes on the highest earners) think is the correct number? What rate do you think is the fair contribution from the those folks? Is 39% enough...?




.
 
Z3n said:
If you make more, you should pay more in taxes. If you think that that disincentivizes someone to not as work hard and earn a nice buck, than you are more than welcome to take a minimum wage job and pay 'less taxes'
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why? I don't pay more for a car than you do. I don't use as many government services as you probably do.

so tell me why I should pay more if I don't use more

and a flat tax would still mean I pay much more than you

but it also means you cannot elect people who will raise my taxes without raising yours as well
 
Cole said:
Really not asking for a "how about". What do you (or any others if favor of raising taxes on the highest earners) think is the correct number? What rate do you think is the fair contribution from the those folks? Is 39% enough...?
.
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How about a rate that had an average growth of 4.0 percent per year for the eight years of his Presidency; That seen The economy grow for 116 consecutive months, the most in history. Created more than 22.5 million jobs.The cherry on top of this pie was,it was the first federal budget surplus since 1969.


This was accomplished in spite of republicans in congress saying that the tax increase would only make matters worse.Kinda sounds like the same song, different verse doesn’t it?

Yes, I believe that a tax rate of 39.6% that we had during the 1990'swould do the job. :2wave:
 
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This back and forth that everyone has over tax cuts/hikes however you want to say it bores me and it is like watching the newest 3 Star Wars movies--you know what is going to happen and you just keep watching like maybe it will magically not happen. This is what will happen:

All Bush tax cuts will get a year extension, then the ones on the 250k+ will revert back to pre-Bush era, everyone elses will stay the same. Why do people talk about this though like they aren't sure this will happen?

About 2 presidents from now they will likely add in a new tax bracket or two as well. That part though is just me guessing.
 
EnigmaO01 said:
You told me you're a civil trial lawyer or is that not your career de jour today? ;)

I run two businesses. I'm a capitalist but no overpaid.
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"career de jour today" is redundant
 
Deuce said:
Wealthy people don't create jobs just because they have the money to do it. Why is that so hard for conservatives to understand?

If demand is not sufficient to justify a new hire, there isn't going to be a new hire even if the tax rates are 0%.
Click to expand...

Its actually both. If they have no money to hire, they're not going to, but at the same time they can have money, but not see any real justifiable reason to hire.
 
danarhea said:
You know, the Republicans are in the wrong here, and so are the Democrats. I am going to take an extremely unpopular position, but at least it will be an honest one.

The budget needs to be balanced. That means no tax cuts for the wealthy, no tax cuts for the middle class, and no tax cuts for the poor. No tax cuts at all, but a tax increase instead. We are not going to be able to spend our way out of this one, and although spending decreases will help, it won't be enough. We will also have to raise taxes, if we are going to have any hope of balancing the budget, and once again living within our means. To do otherwise is going to be economic suicide.
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You know what, I have no problem with this in theory. I've said before, I support a situation where we institute a 2% national sales tax on all non-food related items where the money is used for nothing but paying down the debt.

As I said with the federal employee pay freeze, I will HAPPILY sacrifice a bit of my money to get control of the defecit and debt. That is, IF the Congress actually does their part as well. Sadly, after freezing federal employee pay because they need to save money they turn around and try to pass a multi-billion dollar government expansion bill with the recent school lunch legislation. Don't give me this hogwash of needing to get the deficit under control and thus people need to sacrifice and give more money to the government when the governmetns showing its going to simply use it to spend more and more money frivolously.

As I've said before...tie a temporary tax increase to spending DECREASES. Make it so that if congress doesn't decrease the budget each year by 3% after adjusting for inflation then the temporary tax is null and void for the following year. That way, if CONGRESS is serious about it then the American People will be serious about financing our debt correction. However, if Congress can't stop their binge spending and irresponsability then they're not going to get to just use the American People as a seemingly unending piggy bank built on guilt
 
donc said:
How about the rate it was prior to the time it was passed By A Single Vote....Cheneys.
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First, it was passed by 51 votes, not 50. Its dishonesty in your attempt to seemingly imply that somehow Cheney alone caused this to occur.

Second, exactly why is it so fair, just, and right that the "Rich" pay the same price they were paying prior to the Bush Tax Cuts however apparently everyone else should get the benefits of it.
 
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