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House Passes Middle-Class Tax Cut as Dems, GOP Try to Reach Compromise

Conservative said:
Which side have you EVER looked at? How do you think deficits occur?
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Well I know how the government looks at it: THEY up their spending - and merely blame it on US that there's a deficit.
 
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Conservative said:
Which side have you EVER looked at? How do you think deficits occur?
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Since you have asked, I would work on both sides both cutting spending in one of the biggest areas of the budget - Defense especially stupid foreign wars - there is a trillion right there for you.... plus I would raise taxes on the wealthy, both income tax and FICA tax.
 
Conservative said:
Exactly, we aren't "giving" them enough money to satisfy their appetite for social spending.
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But at the same time many individuals started to cut back on expenses - to protect theirselves in the short and long term . . . and then the government blames *that* for our slow recovery.
 
haymarket said:
Since you have asked, I would work on both sides both cutting spending in one of the biggest areas of the budget - Defense especially stupid foreign wars - there is a trillion right there for you.... plus I would raise taxes on the wealthy, both income tax and FICA tax.
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You are really upset over the wars, aren't you? How did they affect you or your family. I had three family members there, what is your experience? Now as for the budget, here is the 2009 Budget with amounts so tell me what you would cut and how much?

Expense line items

Defense 662.8
International Affairs 38.6
Gen. Science, Space 29.9
Energy 4.6
Natural resources/env 45.7
Agriculture 14.0
Commerce 292.5
Transportation 84.4
Community Dev 26.2
Education/Train/Social 78.2
Health 334.3
Medicare 430.1
Income Security 533.9
Social Security 683.0
Veterans Benefits 95.5
Justice 53.4
General Govt. 17.6
Net Interest 190.9


Total 3615.6

So how will raising the taxes on the rich affect the deficit and show me any example of more revenue going to the govt. paying down the deficits?
 
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you seem to think that I am an expert on the budget... I will indulge you


Defense 662.8 cut 1/3
International Affairs 38.6 cut 15%
Gen. Science, Space 29.9 cut 10%

Commerce 292.5 cut all corporate welfare - whatever that comes to


I would pop the cap on all income and earning for FICA tax purposes. I would raise both income taxes on the rich as well as close corporate loopholes permitting big corporations to off shore their income and profits. I would place a tax - the Founding Fathers called it a tariff - on foreign made products that used to be made here but are not made overseas by corporatists committing economic treason against the people.

How much did I save? I don't know but its a lot
How much did I add in income? Bunches and bunches. And I know its a lot because you folks squeal like stuck pigs when it is proposed.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
But at the same time many individuals started to cut back on expenses - to protect theirselves in the short and long term . . . and then the government blames *that* for our slow recovery.
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Don't feel guilty about it...:)
The wife and I stimulated the economy more than our share the last 3 years, closed out almost all of my tax deferred savings to pay for a retirement house in Utah, while still maintaining a house in AZ. No new cars, tho. We still have ample income and more than enough savings in the wife's accounts. BUT, we are done with that for a while, until we NEED a new car.
Smart people take care of themselves, and their personal economies. We can't take pesonal responsibility for the national economy.
 
UtahBill said:
Surely it isn't just social spending we should worry about?
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Uh, yes, it certainly was, Great Society? I am sure you remember the program, just not the spending which continues today and the results which also are shown today. Amazing how spending in the name of compassion that doesn't generate compassionate results is ignored.
 
Conservative said:
You are really upset over the wars, aren't you? How did they affect you or your family. I had three family members there, what is your experience?
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And you aren't upset about the wars? I am, not only about the Iraq war, but the way we fight the war on terror...
 
haymarket said:
you seem to think that I am an expert on the budget... I will indulge you


Defense 662.8 cut 1/3
International Affairs 38.6 cut 15%
Gen. Science, Space 29.9 cut 10%

Commerce 292.5 cut all corporate welfare - whatever that comes to


I would pop the cap on all income and earning for FICA tax purposes. I would raise both income taxes on the rich as well as close corporate loopholes permitting big corporations to off shore their income and profits. I would place a tax - the Founding Fathers called it a tariff - on foreign made products that used to be made here but are not made overseas by corporatists committing economic treason against the people.

How much did I save? I don't know but its a lot
How much did I add in income? Bunches and bunches. And I know its a lot because you folks squeal like stuck pigs when it is proposed.
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You didn't even make a dent in the deficit and debt but you did do a great job of reducing incentive and economic growth by raising taxes. I am sure one day you will either get a job or try and start your own business, then you can implement those pay cuts and economic policies to grow your personal income or business. Good luck. Why do you think the rich should pay more for your retirement?
 
UtahBill said:
And you aren't upset about the wars? I am, not only about the Iraq war, but the way we fight the war on terror...
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I was upset when almost 3000 lives were lost on 9/11 and the trillion dollars that one event cost this country. What is your experience regarding the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. As stated I had three family members there at different times and all came back with the same story. What makes your feelings more accurate than their first hand experience?
 
Conservative said:
I was upset when almost 3000 lives were lost on 9/11 and the trillion dollars that one event cost this country. What is your experience regarding the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. As stated I had three family members there at different times and all came back with the same story. What makes your feelings more accurate than their first hand experience?
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My experience is as a taxpayer and as a citizen who hates to see American blood and treasure wasted for nothing.
 
Conservative said:
Uh, yes, it certainly was, Great Society? I am sure you remember the program, just not the spending which continues today and the results which also are shown today. Amazing how spending in the name of compassion that doesn't generate compassionate results is ignored.
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I am aware that most social programs are rife with wishful thinking. We offer up the carrots, but no sticks. Let me remind you, surely you have heard me say it before, I HAVE SIBLINGS who are leaches on society. I also am related, by marriage, to too many "poor" who have lived beyond their means and now expect to be bailed out via bankruptcy.
But we can stop all of that and still waste money subsidizing farmers to grow corn for ethanol, give tax breaks to big business and their already rich corporate types, forcing the military to take weapons systems they don't want, and funding studies for the most inane things. Just because a part of the budget is small doesn't mean it doens't contribute to the deficit/debt situation.
Just for giggles here, tho it isn't funny, the fertizer that has hit the ventilator so far might just be a fart in a windstorm to what is coming. Watch the EU and its member countries, and imagine it happening here...
 
haymarket said:
My experience is as a taxpayer and as a citizen who hates to see American blood and treasure wasted for nothing.
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I agree, hate it when almost 3000 Americans at work are killed for no apparent reason and Americans today forget that reality.
 
UtahBill said:
I am aware that most social programs are rife with wishful thinking. We offer up the carrots, but no sticks. Let me remind you, surely you have heard me say it before, I HAVE SIBLINGS who are leaches on society. I also am related, by marriage, to too many "poor" who have lived beyond their means and now expect to be bailed out via bankruptcy.
But we can stop all of that and still waste money subsidizing farmers to grow corn for ethanol, give tax breaks to big business and their already rich corporate types, forcing the military to take weapons systems they don't want, and funding studies for the most inane things. Just because a part of the budget is small doesn't mean it doens't contribute to the deficit/debt situation.
Just for giggles here, tho it isn't funny, the fertizer that has hit the ventilator so far might just be a fart in a windstorm to what is coming. Watch the EU and its member countries, and imagine it happening here...
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What you are saying is that there is waste, fraud, and abuse in all areas of the govt. and there are people in the private and public sector abusing the system. I couldn't agree more therefore I have always proposed addressing all aspects of the problem. the problem remains too many people continue to focus on the cost of the wars and not the waste, fraud, and abuse of the biggest portion of our budget. Since the War began we have spent about a trillion dollars over 9 years or about 125 billion a year. today that 125 billion is less than 10% of the deficit so there is a bigger problem than the wars and that remains the issue. Address them all instead of focusing on just one part of the deficit and debt
 
Conservative said:
I agree, hate it when almost 3000 Americans at work are killed for no apparent reason and Americans today forget that reality.
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I suspect you want to get something off your chest?
 
Conservative said:
I was upset when almost 3000 lives were lost on 9/11 and the trillion dollars that one event cost this country. What is your experience regarding the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. As stated I had three family members there at different times and all came back with the same story. What makes your feelings more accurate than their first hand experience?
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Throw a rock in a crowd, and you will likely hit someone who has had relatives, friends, etc, who has been over there. Your situaiton isn't special, those who fight are special, but those who sit at home and talk about it are not.
And it doesn't give you any special insight, either.
Got a neighbor who spent almost 30 years in military Intelligence, retired as an O6, and guess what, he is still learning that things he "knew" during Vietnam wasn't always complete or true...
One thing I noticed in Vietnam that is being duplicated in these wars right now. Too many of OUR troops are getting killed while too few of our Arab "allies" are letting us carry the load. Too many of their men aren't fighting their enemies. They need martial law, a forced draft, and prison for draft evasion before they can show us that they deserve our help....the taliban won't go away, or Al Queda, not until they are all dead...and only native troops can do that...
 
Conservative said:
I was upset when almost 3000 lives were lost on 9/11 and the trillion dollars that one event cost this country. What is your experience regarding the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. As stated I had three family members there at different times and all came back with the same story. What makes your feelings more accurate than their first hand experience?
Click to expand...


Hmmm why don't we ask Pat Tillman what he thought about the Iraq war......
 
Conservative said:
What you are saying is that there is waste, fraud, and abuse in all areas of the govt. and there are people in the private and public sector abusing the system. I couldn't agree more therefore I have always proposed addressing all aspects of the problem. the problem remains too many people continue to focus on the cost of the wars and not the waste, fraud, and abuse of the biggest portion of our budget. Since the War began we have spent about a trillion dollars over 9 years or about 125 billion a year. today that 125 billion is less than 10% of the deficit so there is a bigger problem than the wars and that remains the issue. Address them all instead of focusing on just one part of the deficit and debt
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Agree, but too many conservatives only harp on social issues. They surely won't complain about debt/deficits as long as their ox isn't being gored...
 
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UtahBill said:
Throw a rock in a crowd, and you will likely hit someone who has had relatives, friends, etc, who has been over there. Your situaiton isn't special, those who fight are special, but those who sit at home and talk about it are not.
And it doesn't give you any special insight, either.
Got a neighbor who spent almost 30 years in military Intelligence, retired as an O6, and guess what, he is still learning that things he "knew" during Vietnam wasn't always complete or true...
One thing I noticed in Vietnam that is being duplicated in these wars right now. Too many of OUR troops are getting killed while too few of our Arab "allies" are letting us carry the load. Too many of their men aren't fighting their enemies. They need martial law, a forced draft, and prison for draft evasion before they can show us that they deserve our help....the taliban won't go away, or Al Queda, not until they are all dead...and only native troops can do that...
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Yet you have such an outrage over this war and without any special connection I find that interesting to say the least. Sounds to me like some kind of agenda to me. I wonder where all those al Qaeda leaders and members would be today had they not died or been captured in Iraq? Hmmm!

So when you bury your head in the sand these people will love us or leave us alone?
 
UtahBill said:
Agree, but too many conservatives only harp on social issues. They surely won't complain about debt/deficits as long as it isn't their ox being gored...
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That is your opinion, my point is address the trillions wasted on social programs that haven't done what was promised. That is the biggest part of the debt, not the wars
 
Conservative said:
Yet you have such an outrage over this war and without any special connection I find that interesting to say the least. Sounds to me like some kind of agenda to me. I wonder where all those al Qaeda leaders and members would be today had they not died or been captured in Iraq? Hmmm!

So when you bury your head in the sand these people will love us or leave us alone?
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you are the one claiming special connection, and inside knowledge, and you exaggerate on both counts. I have been in a war overseas....and have seen their people going about their daily business while we fight for them.
We don't need to bury our heads in the sand, but we also don't need to bury any more of our troops for the lost cause of nation building. There are 2 things we are wasting here, our money, and our children's lives...

gotta go exercise, against my will and better judgement, carry on your self rightous rightist rant without me...:2razz:
 
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There were no tax cuts considered, only tax increases. The democrats were twarted in their attempt to raise taxes. Hurrah!

A little stability is needed to get this economy going. Everything the administration has done, almost without exception, has generated an atmosphere of uncertainty around the cost of doing business in this country and reduced the availability of jobs. It started when the Dems gained control of congress, as did the current spike in the deficit. Just check the charts without political blinders on.

Attempting this sort of societal engineering in the middle of a war is unconscionable.
 
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