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Republicans block child nutrition bill

no one is saying that is not a problem
what is your answer for it?
let's solve that problem

your kind won't let us, because most of what needs to be done to solve that problem would require forcing ****ty parents to do things they don't want to do or...GASP...restricting someone's "right" to pump out as many kids as fast as they can.


in the meantime, let's also solve the very real problem that their are hungry children in school who are not getting proper nourishment. why are you so opposed to feeding hungry students born into poverty?

we already give them welfare and food stamps...when will enough be enough?
 
no one is saying that is not a problem
what is your answer for it?
let's solve that problem

in the meantime, let's also solve the very real problem that their are hungry children in school who are not getting proper nourishment. why are you so opposed to feeding hungry students born into poverty?

Why are children alledgedly going to school hungry?

Has anyone interveiwed their parent?
 
I have 3 cats. several months ago another stray wandered up and starting hanging around my barn. after about a month, the wife says, why not take it to the vet, get it checked out and give him his shots, since he is going to hang around.

vet's tests showed it had, through no fault of its own, FIV and feline leukemia. I had to "punish" that cat (put him down) in order to keep from having to punish my other 3 cats later when he infected them.

As Mr. Spock so eloquently stated, "The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few or the one"

so, to make it abundantly clear, your analogy tells us you would be willing to put down the hungry children born into poverty so that they did not survive to infect the rest of society

if i got anything wrong about your comparison, please let me know
 
Why are children alledgedly going to school hungry?

Has anyone interveiwed their parent?

maybe because parent sells food stamps for 30 cents on the dollar to buy booze and cigarettes with, instead of spending it to buy FOOD for their kids.


welfare, food stamps, medicaide, free school lunch, low income housing, low income grants and scholarships. we already give and give and give and give to these people.

when will enough be enough?
 
so, to make it abundantly clear, your analogy tells us you would be willing to put down the hungry children born into poverty so that they did not survive to infect the rest of society

if i got anything wrong about your comparison, please let me know

no, but I would be more than happy to sterilize their worthless parents so they couldn't bring more and more of the little bastards into being.
 
This bill isn't about feeding kids.
really? isn't this a child nutrition bill being discussed?

It's about the multiple pet payoffs woven within it.
please explain for those of us unfamiliar with this, exactly how it works

But when you bring up the "children", it becomes an impentrable force field.
no, when the matter of childrens' welfare is brought up, those on your side dodge that topic and try to make it something else again
 
then give us the answer
why do you want to punish the victims, the children born into poverty, too often to sorry, irresponsible parents
Other than the bleating on about 'the children' (and seriosly...why dont you just take the children and house them in state homes and get them out of those horrible existences) have you actually read the legislation? Do you know what it calls for? Do you support creating 17 new governmental agencies...undefined grant prgrams...etc? Do you advocate that the money already being paid to providers of foster kids for their sunstinence and to poor families still be paid to them while disregarding the fact that now you are advocating paying for breakfast lunch and dinner for 20+ million children year round (even during the summer?). So...no consequences...no reduction dollars to foster care providers that no longer have to sustain the children.
And if this is so all fired important to liberals what the **** is wrong with you??? Why arent you doing this already...on your own? Why havent you created private funds to take care of all poor children? Why must you INSIST that the nany state government do it all? Where is your conviction? Where is your integrity?
 
My understanding is that it serves "the people". That includes everyone equally, including the rich and poor, and so on. There is no distinction beetween various groups.
the benefits of this great nation have flowed disproportionately toward the rich. real incomes for most have been level while the wealthy have prospered greatly. the playing field is uneven, as can be seen by the results, and the progressive tax would be a mechanism to try to restore a level playing field

were the data to show that it was happening in the opposite direction, that our wealthy were being harmed while our lower and middle classes were prospering disproportionately, i would then insist the tax system was too progressive, damaging the opportunities of the rich

Why should you expect that? They can if they chose, as some do, or they can pay the same percentage of their income as everyone else, which still works out to a lot of money without being discriminatory.
they have benefitted disproportionately, thus they should contribute to the system which makes them prosperous disproportionately

It is not up to you, or anyone else, to decide what other peoples' "needs" are. That's up to the individual, not to a committee.
the purpose of government is to protect and defend the public's welfare. why is this any different?

They already have tax relief.
but they still pay more than most corporations for instance. the GAO has shown that most corporations pay no tax because of the advantages conferred by the tax system. yet that minimum wage worker pays taxes
yes, the low wage employees do have tax relief, as do the uber wealthy ... which is why the middle class is being squeezed at both ends. and we see the middle class dwindle as a result

Because they earned their money, it is their money, and they are entitled to keep what they earned. They should not have to pay a larger proportion of theor income than others. You want to be rich, than get an education and work hard. Don't waste your youth and then later complain about "the rich".
that's not the way it works. they chose to be here and enjoy the opportunities and bounties of this wonderful nation. they have an obligation to also support it so that it can continue to prosper ... all of it

Certainly children need to be fed but what alternatives have been looked at? Any?
i have no problem with alternatives that will accomplish the same end, feeding hungry students
unfortunately, we do not see the opposition party offering alternatives, we only see them say "no" to hungry kids

Or do you sincerely believe more government programs will eliminate poverty, such as The Great Society intended?
you should look at the data which indicates the middle class grew in number and affluence following the war on poverty/great society program ... just as it did after FDR's programs to assist the working people of our nation
not saying all programs were cost effective, because i happened to manage some of them that were not during my career in public service. but the results speak for themselves. our middle class grew and our poverty levels waned during LBJ (and Lady Byrd's) great society effort

Which children are hungry?
ask a teacher. my spouse is a retired teacher and she was easily able to identify those who were undernourished
Who are their parents?
sometimes they were unable to properly care for their kids because of circumstances beyond their control. too often, the parent(s) were sorry assholes who had no business being parents in the first place ... but they were likely thinking only of being sperm and egg donors at the time and not considering the potential for unplanned children
irresponsible as hell ... but why is that the resulting hungry child's fault?

What have their friends and neighbors done. Are there any volunteer organizations?
i operate a soup kitchen in an affluent community. we see a LOT of community support but we also have other affluent residents who resent that we are a magnet for the homeless and underprivileged. demand for our meals is about to outstrip our capacity to provide help (fire code occupancy is 70 while we actually seat 118 and feed 200+). and we serve a substantial number of kids - especially in the summer. the point being that there are volunteer organizations but the demand exceeds the supply. and there are also too many assholes who take the attitude that they care for themselves and their help should not be needed to assist the least among us

Answer these and you might get a better idea than just more government programs. The bureaucracy and the labor unions will like that, but not the long suffering tax payer.
i think i have answered your questions and my position is unchanged. and yes, i am also an active union official, retired bureaucrat, and remain a taxpayer. i do believe my perspective is a sound, realistic one
 
What has this bill got to do with your income? Fnding for S.3307 would come from the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) under the stimulus bill. It's not like a new tax will be initiated to pay for it. Of course, you'll say the stimulus is wasted, big government spending. Still, it's not a direct assault on your earned income. So, as I've said to others who would rather repeat the same stall rhetoric and talking points, pick up the needle on that old 45 and move it to a new position. Your "get your hands outta my pockets" banter is getting old.


Excuse me? Could you show me where in the government that the government actually makes any money that didn't originate from taking our tax dollars? You seem to think that what the government takes from me is theirs. It is NOT! That is MY money, the fact that they take it from me doesn't mean that once it leaves my paycheck it is no longer able to be scrutinized by me!

j-mac
 
because if you give free food to them because their parents are worthless, they grow up to be worthless parents who have even more kids
and your position is that we should allow kids to remain hungry and malnourished so that they will then grow up to be responsible parents?
could you please point to something which will show us this approach actually generates the outcome you have predicted

that then must be fed because it's not their fault they have worthless parents.
so, they were victimized by being born into a bad situation and you propose that we should help them by allowing them to continue to suffer hunger
i do believe you have posted the most idiotic position i have ever encountered

it's a vicious cycle and continuing to pump "free" money/food into will do nothing to break it.
on one point we agree. it is a cycle that deserves to be broken. we learn to parent from our parents and when we have crappy parents we will probably become equally crappy towards our own kids' development. but this is yet another - different problem - than the one we are discussing, which is feeding hungry children - or as the republicans insist, that we should not
you are conflating the two problems as if they are one
solve the crappy parent problem and you will have solved the hunger problem
solve the hunger problem and you will not have solved the crappy parent problem ... but you will have solved the problem of hunger and malnourishment of our kids. that's a problem which deserves to be solved
so, begin a thread on how to fix the crappy parent problem and i will join you in it. don't be surprised if we agree on many points there
but as i see it, you want to make the parents' bad decisions the kids' problem. that is not right

but that is really what this is all about. democrats wanting to increase the number of people dependent on govt...the people who tend to always vote democrat.
i keep seeing this, usually posited by that turtle dude member, that the democrats help the lower income citizens, not because they need help but because they want their votes
if that was such an effective approach, one would think the republicans would exploit that cause and effect to their own political advantage
but they don't, which causes me to dismiss that argument as one which won't hold water
instead, it would appear that those working class folks vote in their perceived self interest, recognizing that it is the democrats, more than the republicans, who support the programs which benefit them
in contrast, we see the republicans supporting the programs that are more beneficial to business and industry interests
the point being, you attribute the democrats approach to assisting the working class as being intended to help the democrats rather than the working class, and as was noted above, that proves to be a lame, unsubstantiated assessment
 
your kind won't let us, because most of what needs to be done to solve that problem would require forcing ****ty parents to do things they don't want to do or...GASP...restricting someone's "right" to pump out as many kids as fast as they can.
well then tell us ... preferably in its own thread ... what needs to be done to end the problem of irresponsible people having children they cannot afford to raise
once i know those things you would do then i could comment about whether i would find them appropriate and workable
but you offer nothing specific ... you only point to the problem itself and never offer a solution. this matter of addressing the issue of hungry, malnourished students is but a singular example of your inability (or unwillingness) to offer solutions
we already give them welfare and food stamps...when will enough be enough?
if the welfare and the food stamp programs were enough then this problem would not be one we need to address. but the reality is, this is a problem now being undertaken by the congress. why do you want to avoid reality [another rhetorical question ... we recognize it is because you have no answers, only gripes about problems]
 
Why are children alledgedly going to school hungry?

Has anyone interveiwed their parent?

do you think the congress would be addressing a solution to the problem if the problem did not actually exist?

but offer us something which will document that there is no such hunger problem in the schools, that this is a bogus issue
 
i keep seeing this, usually posited by that turtle dude member, that the democrats help the lower income citizens, not because they need help but because they want their votes
if that was such an effective approach, one would think the republicans would exploit that cause and effect to their own political advantage
but they don't, which causes me to dismiss that argument as one which won't hold water
instead, it would appear that those working class folks vote in their perceived self interest, recognizing that it is the democrats, more than the republicans, who support the programs which benefit them
in contrast, we see the republicans supporting the programs that are more beneficial to business and industry interests
the point being, you attribute the democrats approach to assisting the working class as being intended to help the democrats rather than the working class, and as was noted above, that proves to be a lame, unsubstantiated assessment


Really? That is your observation? Wow. So let me see if I have this straight in layman's terms.....You think that welfare, and handouts help these communities more so than having a job and a sense of real worth eh?

j-mac
 
maybe because parent sells food stamps for 30 cents on the dollar to buy booze and cigarettes with, instead of spending it to buy FOOD for their kids.
not saying this does not happen. in fact, i know that it does
but how does your whining about the ways in which that program is operated, which enables that black market sale of food stamps, how does that in any way address the thread topic which is the feeding of hungry children
tell us what you would do to the food stamp program which would allow those hungry kids to be properly fed

welfare, food stamps, medicaide, free school lunch, low income housing, low income grants and scholarships. we already give and give and give and give to these people.

when will enough be enough?
it will be enough when there are no more people who are without the means to provide for themselves. how do we accomplish that?
 
Really? That is your observation? Wow. So let me see if I have this straight in layman's terms.....You think that welfare, and handouts help these communities more so than having a job and a sense of real worth eh?

j-mac

bass-ackwards if you ask me.
 
no, but I would be more than happy to sterilize their worthless parents so they couldn't bring more and more of the little bastards into being.

so, your solution is to take a page out of the nazi playbook and sterilize those who you deem inappropriate to responsibly raise kids
would this be reversible, if the prospective parents get their act together or nonreversible?
at what point would you determine them to be irresponsible and deserving of sterilization?
what criteria would you use to distinguish the responsible parents from thoise who are irresponsible and should not be parents?
certainly, if you can effect an acceptable methodology for that problem then the problem of student hunger effectively goes away. so tell us your process to effect selective sterilization. also tell us why you would find that to be acceptable under the Constitution
 
This bill isn't about feeding kids. It's about the multiple pet payoffs woven within it.

But when you bring up the "children", it becomes an impentrable force field.



That's the case with any bill, but that wasan't really the objection in the original op. However, the discussion I was ahving was with someone who was amking another argument, and children was part of that.
 
no, but it is a condition/tradition that can and is passed from parents to children

Which can be passed on regardless of whether we help or not. But not passed on to anyone not in that family or tradition. And, this is important, you can help and still encourage and help people move out of that tradition. Before you can tach a person to fish, it is often good to put a little food in the belly to start with. That Maslow fellow discussed this your text books somewhere in your education I'm sure. ;)
 
Lets be absolutely blunt. The OHMIGODITSFORTHECHIIIIILDREN rhetoric aside...I will betg body parts that prior to the biased article, not a soul here knew this legislation was even being CONSIDERED. But NOW...all of a sudden...this is critical...vital...BULL****. Its kneejerk partisdan rhetoric at its finest. That article did EXACTLY what they meant it to do...cause the liberal base to get all up in arms about the eeeeeevil republicans.

If those liberals that are so up in arms about this horrible attrocity were truly as committed to 'the children' as you pretend to be...where the hell have you been PRIOR to the article? Cuz...I gotta be honest...I havent seen NARY a post or thread from ANY of you prior to this proclaiming the need for similar proposals and I DAMN sure havent seen the massive groundswell efforts to do it without the federal government.

And I'd bet you STILL havent bothered to read what is actually IN the legislation...
 
Why are children alledgedly going to school hungry?

Has anyone interveiwed their parent?

They are going to school early and eating the free breakfast because mom and dad dont have to provide it. Then they are having a free lunch...because again...mom and dad havent provided it. Its all bull**** rhetoric. They arent going to school hungry...they are already on the program. This legislation added about 110,000 foster kids. the 20 million were already ON the free breakfast and lunch programs. This legislation, in addition to growing government programs and creating more irresponsible spending adds the DINNER meal into the mix and then makes the school responsible for providing all THREE meals during the summer when school isnt even in session.
 
Lets be absolutely blunt. The OHMIGODITSFORTHECHIIIIILDREN rhetoric aside...I will betg body parts that prior to the biased article, not a soul here knew this legislation was even being CONSIDERED. But NOW...all of a sudden...this is critical...vital...BULL****. Its kneejerk partisdan rhetoric at its finest. That article did EXACTLY what they meant it to do...cause the liberal base to get all up in arms about the eeeeeevil republicans.

If those liberals that are so up in arms about this horrible attrocity were truly as committed to 'the children' as you pretend to be...where the hell have you been PRIOR to the article? Cuz...I gotta be honest...I havent seen NARY a post or thread from ANY of you prior to this proclaiming the need for similar proposals and I DAMN sure havent seen the massive groundswell efforts to do it without the federal government.

And I'd bet you STILL havent bothered to read what is actually IN the legislation...

Actually, that's not true. There's a good number of bills being considered that have been blocked by republicans for awhile now. This is just one of them. Congress has been a stand still for sometime, not eve being able to agree on the simplist of legislation. It has been quite annoying.
 
bass-ackwards if you ask me.


Me too. Almost like hearing Pelosi try to explain how unemployment supposedly helps the economy more than having a job does.


j-mac
 
Some odd things in the bill..


40 million for school gardens?


mandatory funding for recognizing "exemplary breast feeding" practices?
 
Actually, that's not true. There's a good number of bills being considered that have been blocked by republicans for awhile now. This is just one of them. Congress has been a stand still for sometime, not eve being able to agree on the simplist of legislation. It has been quite annoying.


Maybe it has something to do with even the simplest of bills containing thousands of pages with surprises tucked in them?


j-mac
 
Me too. Almost like hearing Pelosi try to explain how unemployment supposedly helps the economy more than having a job does.


j-mac

Not exaclty her point. Unemployment insurance helps more than being unemployed with no income.
 
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