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Oregon Teen Arrested in Plot to Bomb Holiday Event

This is obviously a case of entrapment. This freedom fighter was set up.
 
Kandahar said:
We need Homeland Security to set up checkpoints at every Christmas tree lighting ceremony in America to prevent future attacks that are exactly the same. They'll need to search the vehicles of every person in attendance, and possibly check the inside of their assholes for explosives as well. Sure, the next terrorist could just try some OTHER tactic somewhere ELSE, but at least there won't be any more terrorists who try to set off car bombs at Christmas tree lighting ceremonies. Sure, it will cost a huge amount of money for practically no security benefit, but we can't put a price on our lives. Amirite? :mrgreen:
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I vote, that instead of a defensive strategy--as you described--that we employ an offensive strategy, where we actively hunt down and kill more terrorists, along with their support networks.
 
Some people are just psychopaths.

A Somali-born teenager attempting to detonate what he believed was a car bomb at a packed Christmas tree-lighting ceremony in downtown Portland, Ore., was arrested by the authorities on Friday night. They had spent nearly six months tracking him and setting up a sting operation, officials in Oregon said.

The bomb, which was in a van parked off Pioneer Courthouse Square, was a fake — planted by F.B.I. agents as part of the elaborate sting — but “the threat was very real,” said Arthur Balizan, the F.B.I.’s special agent in charge in Oregon. An estimated 10,000 people were at the ceremony on Friday night, the Portland police said.

Mr. Balizan identified the suspect as Mohamed Osman Mohamud, 19, a naturalized United States citizen. He graduated from Westview High School in Beaverton, Ore., a Portland suburb, and was a sophomore engineering student at Oregon State University in Corvallis, authorities said.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/28/us/28portland.html?_r=1
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RightinNYC said:
If it didn't work in this one instance, it obviously can't be working anywhere else.

LOGIC.
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I think we need a whole new approach but no idea what.
This kid said he'd been thinking about it since he was 15. So something made him hate Americans before that.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
Just what I figured.

You haven't really changed. You just think you're being witty.
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I think this guy was railroaded. The FBI entraped him IMO. He is just a freedom fighter fighting for Allahs cause. He isn't very smart and it appears they took advantage of that.
 
Barbbtx said:
I think we need a whole new approach but no idea what.
This kid said he'd been thinking about it since he was 15. So something made him hate Americans before that.
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He hates America because America is the great satan.
 
Barbbtx said:
I think we need a whole new approach but no idea what.
This kid said he'd been thinking about it since he was 15. So something made him hate Americans before that.
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We need to kill more extremist Muslims.

Bascially, cure the disease, vice curing the symptoms.
 
zimmer said:
I thought Obama was supposed assuage the concerns of such morons? I recall something along those lines... don't others?

Seems the message isn't getting through.
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I recall a time when a bunch of loud mouthed liberals declared every exploded IED in Iraq as an excuse to call Iraq and our military a failure. They also wanted every new terrorist to mean that we are losing the "War on Terror."

Complaining that Obama is failing, and thusly the U.S., at persuading radicals to not cross the line into extremism just because a few will prove too religious or too incompetent for this world, is just as foolish and harmful. I have stated this repeatedly, but apparently nobody cares to actually assess correctly or to be above the political rabble that pretends to lead us in Washington.


"EVEN THE WORST BOXER IN HISTORY CAN MANAGE TO GET AT LEAST ONE PUNCH IN AGIANST HIS OPPONENT." We should not be so quick to behave as Europeans and declare failure at every turn. Americans have never won a war by insisting that everything means that we are losing.
 
apdst said:
We need to kill more extremist Muslims.

Bascially, cure the disease, vice curing the symptoms.
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Religious extremism is a symptom. They aren't born extremist. There are bred and taught to hate and to identify phantom enemies to explain away their region's failures. Islam, as an organizing tool, had failed in the twentieth century. Since the era of independence (post WWII), government change in this region has been through militay coup and political strong arming. Only the elite form political parties and only they have social justice. As economic systems become more and more about the few, people without any avenue of approach to peacefully change things turn to the one thing they have spent 1400 years looking towards to fix all things. Over time, the radical cry to turn towards Islam has turned into mass extremism even as it proved to fail as well. Eventually, everything imaginable has been used to justify their rage and hatreds towards the West. And when that merely produces everything negative about religion...

Middle Eastern failure is the disease.

There is an old saying.... "- You can tell when a religion is in crisis when it begins to develop more rules to reject society and less compassion towards sinners." Is there any wonder why the most successful and prosperous Muslims reside in Western countries? Why the freeest live outside the Middle East? Why the further away religion got from this region, the healthier it got and so did the civilizations? Is the great religion of Islam really so threatened by a Western author's book or a cartoonist's square that murder for God becomes the answer? How fragile must God be that another's lack of faith will insult or shatter a religion. And how weak must Allah be that he needs human beings to be his self-appointed executioners.

The disease is clear. Fix the Middle East and the symptoms begin to dissapear. But nobody wants to really look into this. They merely wish that impractical and illusive letters from our enemies can some how make sense and that peace is merely a light switch away. Anyhow, it may be too late for the Middle East. This is a path that Islamic radicals have hardened into brittle concrete.
 
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apdst said:
We need to kill more extremist Muslims.

Bascially, cure the disease, vice curing the symptoms.
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But killing more extremist Muslims is only curing the symptoms. The reason why extremist Muslims are militant is because many of them are poor and uneducated and have little way to improve their lot in life. So if you want to cure the disease, the best thing to do is to help Muslim areas promote an economic base and provide modern education rather than let them be ingrained by zealous religious leaders to be militant extremists.
 
MSgt said:
Religious extremism is a symptom. They aren't born extremist. There are bred and taught to hate and to identify phantom enemies to explain away their region's failures. Islam, as an organizing tool, had failed in the twentieth century. Since the era of independence (post WWII), government change in this region has been through militay coup and political strong arming. Only the elite form political parties and only they have social justice. As economic systems become more and more about the few, people without any avenue of approach to peacefully change things turn to the one thing they have spent 1400 years looking towards to fix all things. Over time, the radical cry to turn towards Islam has turned into mass extremism even as it proved to fail as well. Eventually, everything imaginable has been used to justify their rage and hatreds towards the West. And when that merely produces everything negative about religion...

Middle Eastern failure is the disease.

There is an old saying.... "- You can tell when a religion is in crisis when it begins to develop more rules to reject society and less compassion towards sinners." Is there any wonder why the most successful and prosperous Muslims reside in Western countries? Why the freeest live outside the Middle East? Why the further away religion got from this region, the healthier it got and so did the civilizations? Is the great religion of Islam really so threatened by a Western author's book or a cartoonist's square that murder for God becomes the answer? How fragile must God be that another's lack of faith will insult or shatter a religion. And how weak must Allah be that he needs human beings to be his self-appointed executioners.

The disease is clear. Fix the Middle East and the symptoms begin to dissapear. But it may be too late for the Middle East and all who live in it.
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People weren't born to be Nazis and Communists, either.

Simply improving the standard of living in the ME isn't going to make Islamic extremism go away. Islamic extremism has been around for fourteen-hundred-years; long before there was a United States.
 
samsmart said:
But killing more extremist Muslims is only curing the symptoms. The reason why extremist Muslims are militant is because many of them are poor and uneducated and have little way to improve their lot in life. So if you want to cure the disease, the best thing to do is to help Muslim areas promote an economic base and provide modern education rather than let them be ingrained by zealous religious leaders to be militant extremists.
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That's no ****in' excuse! Gimme a break!!!!!!
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
I'm sure they feel the same way about us.
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It is how they feel about us. The record is clear and it goes right back to the 1950s. - Before America was Israel's defender. - Before there was a base in Saudi Arabia. - Before Salmon Rushdie wrote a book. - Before Danish cartoons. Etc. The excuses are exhausting and it should tell us something about their complaints when even they can't get on the same sheet of music, yet share the same senseless hatred. Radicals believe that if the West just dissapeared that Islamic Middle East would rise again. Unfortunately, this is true, because Middle Eastern Islam simply cannot compete with a world that relies more and more on social justice and technological ingenuity for prosperity rather than God. But it would hardly bring forth an Islamic prosperous civilization. Of course, then Arabs would merely blame the Shia or the Kurd in their midst or Asia for not dissaperaing as well.
 
apdst said:
People weren't born to be Nazis and Communists, either.
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Excatly. What made them? There own failed and failing civilizations. Germany is far more healther today and this means that extremist organizations like the Nazi Party are without a means to arm itself.

apdst said:
Simply improving the standard of living in the ME isn't going to make Islamic extremism go away. Islamic extremism has been around for fourteen-hundred-years; long before there was a United States.
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This is a copout. Islamic exremism has come in waves and this current wave is by far the most dangerous,most wide spread, and most confused of any wave. Anyway, Islamic extremism will be just as present in life as Christian extremism is. Nobody has ever argued that this "War on Terror" was ever going to vanquish religious extremism. It is a false argument for either side to have.

The goal has always been to make it more manageable. Christian radicals in the U.S. are not quick to ruin their lives by breaking laws and murdering their fellow American because they live in a society where they are largely happy, represented, and have avenues of complaint that matter. Our extremists generally are content organizing amongst themselves into cults and at the most committing mass suicide through flavored sugar water. The American culture and society has given every single individual in it a way to improve upon his life. With absolutely no avenue to rely on except Islam, radicals are more quick to commit suicide in a blast if it will mean that his after life is an improvement. There is a reason that the vast majority of all suicide bombers are ueducated and full of personal family failure. Even our educated Islamic terrorists on high know this, which is why it is never them that wears the vest. Why do you think they recruit from the worst neighborhoods in the Middle East? Hell, in recent years with all of Islam looking towards Iraq's example, they have even turned towards Africa for recruits.

This is historical in terms of civilizational disasters. As society becomes more repressed and oppressed, religious people will turn towards God more and more. And as religion becomes more internally disruptive and violent, society becomes more and more abusive and suicidal. These go hand in hand. The Middle East is on a suicide path. And as it gets worse, the more deadlier it will be for our people. This is the disease. Fixing it has always been a generational effort and never the quick in and out people expected from Iraq and Afghanistan.

1) Extremists must die. They are too far gone and irredeemable.

2) Radicals must be given time to embrace the power and security of a the vote.

3) Current governments must be held absolutely accountable to their people by stronger nations.

It is our problem because as 9/11 proved, assassinating local leaders and slaughtering fellow Muslims is no longer good enough. The exportation of Islamic terror into Western nations is unacceptable and therefore we must force this change (since they will not). After all, waiting around and just sniping the never ending stream of religious terrorists is not exactly safe guarding our people.
 
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apdst said:
That's no ****in' excuse! Gimme a break!!!!!!
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You are right. It is absolutely no excuse.

But the fact that Islamic radicalism and extremism has exponentially grown as every Arab plan for prosperity failed in the 20th century is more than one can ignore. Everybody knows that ignorance amongst religious circles breeds more ignorance. This is true in any culture. We are witnessing the complete failure of the once great Islamic civilization and every radical in the region is looking for an excuse to blame anybody but themselves and their own culture. There is no coincidence that even in the religious Middle East ignorance has been breeding even more ignorance. And with this region being the most religiously focused on earth, failure here is very very bad.

A religion in crisis will always produce God's self-appointed executioners. The question then becomes, "What has caused Islam to fail in this region?" The answer here is that in a globalized Western world of free expression, creativity, individual freedom, and capitalism, Islam, as a governing tool, cannot succeed. It is as much a socialist religion as Christianity is. The difference is that Christianity doesn't govern. In the end, Islam is failing in the Middle East because the West exists and Islam's governance cannot compete. But since Islam's creator declared Islam as governance...what hope can we have for the Middle East and the rest of the world as it continues to fail?

The problem is the Islamic Middle East, not the extremist in a cave. Israelis is not governed through Islam. Turkey chose a long time ago to separate Islam for governance. Is it really supposed to be a mere coincidence that these two are the only prosperous and forward leaning governments in the region with the least amount of corruption? Would Turkey be a nation that seeks inclusion in the EU today had it not made the relgious separation 85 years ago? Or would it be like the rest, torn between loyalty to God and creating a modern prosperous society in the 21st century?
 
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samsmart said:
That may be true. However, killing them all won't fix anything either.
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I never said anything about killing them all, unless you mean killing all of the Islamic extremists; plus, it'll be a quicker than putting them all on welfare.
 
MSgt said:
Excatly. What made them? There own failed and failing civilizations. Germany is far more healther today and this means that extremist organizations like the Nazi Party are without a means to arm itself.


This is a copout. Islamic exremism has come in waves and this current wave is by far the most dangerous,most wide spread, and most confused of any wave. Anyway, Islamic extremism will be just as present in life as Christian extremism is. Nobody has ever argued that this "War on Terror" was ever going to vanquish religious extremism. It is a false argument for either side to have.

The goal has always been to make it more manageable. Christian radicals in the U.S. are not quick to ruin their lives by breaking laws and murdering their fellow American because they live in a society where they are largely happy, represented, and have avenues of complaint that matter. Our extremists generally are content organizing amongst themselves into cults and at the most committing mass suicide through flavored sugar water. The American culture and society has given every single individual in it a way to improve upon his life. With absolutely no avenue to rely on except Islam, radicals are more quick to commit suicide in a blast if it will mean that his after life is an improvement. There is a reason that the vast majority of all suicide bombers are ueducated and full of personal family failure. Even our educated Islamic terrorists on high know this, which is why it is never them that wears the vest. Why do you think they recruit from the worst neighborhoods in the Middle East? Hell, in recent years with all of Islam looking towards Iraq's example, they have even turned towards Africa for recruits.

This is historical in terms of civilizational disasters. As society becomes more repressed and oppressed, religious people will turn towards God more and more. And as religion becomes more internally disruptive and violent, society becomes more and more abusive and suicidal. These go hand in hand. The Middle East is on a suicide path. And as it gets worse, the more deadlier it will be for our people. This is the disease. Fixing it has always been a generational effort and never the quick in and out people expected from Iraq and Afghanistan.

1) Extremists must die. They are too far gone and irredeemable.

2) Radicals must be given time to embrace the power and security of a the vote.

3) Current governments must be held absolutely accountable to their people by stronger nations.

It is our problem because as 9/11 proved, assassinating local leaders and slaughtering fellow Muslims is no longer good enough. The exportation of Islamic terror into Western nations is unacceptable and therefore we must force this change (since they will not). After all, waiting around and just sniping the never ending stream of religious terrorists is not exactly safe guarding our people.
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Again, that's no excuse. Nor, was it accepted as an excuse when we defeated the Nazis and the Communists.
 
MSgt said:
You are right. It is absolutely no excuse.

But the fact that Islamic radicalism and extremism has exponentially grown as every Arab plan for prosperity failed in the 20th century is more than one can ignore. Everybody knows that ignorance amongst religious circles breeds more ignorance. This is true in any culture. We are witnessing the complete failure of the once great Islamic civilization and every radical in the region is looking for an excuse to blame anybody but themselves and their own culture. There is no coincidence that even in the religious Middle East ignorance has been breeding even more ignorance. And with this region being the most religiously focused on earth, failure here is very very bad.

A religion in crisis will always produce God's self-appointed executioners. The question then becomes, "What has caused Islam to fail in this region?" The answer here is that in a globalized Western world of free expression, creativity, individual freedom, and capitalism, Islam, as a governing tool, cannot succeed. It is as much a socialist religion as Christianity is. The difference is that Christianity doesn't govern. In the end, Islam is failing in the Middle East because the West exists and Islam's governance cannot compete. But since Islam's creator declared Islam as governance...what hope can we have for the Middle East and the rest of the world as it continues to fail?

The problem is the Islamic Middle East, not the extremist in a cave. Israelis is not governed through Islam. Turkey chose a long time ago to separate Islam for governance. Is it really supposed to be a mere coincidence that these two are the only prosperous and forward leaning governments in the region with the least amount of corruption? Would Turkey be a nation that seeks inclusion in the EU today had it not made the relgious separation 85 years ago? Or would it be like the rest, torn between loyalty to God and creating a modern prosperous society in the 21st century?
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Poverty in the ME is older than Islam, itself. The whatever standard of living that exist in the ME, is of their own doing.
 
apdst said:
Again, that's no excuse. Nor, was it accepted as an excuse when we defeated the Nazis and the Communists.
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Well, no one here as tried to legitmize the excuse. However, there is far more to this than just swimming in ignorance and boasting that simply killing a few will fix the problem. One must understand the problem first. And since you feel that you have to equate Nazis and Soviets to religious fanatics in the Middle East, you clearly do not. You may as well try to convince me that McVeigh is just like Bin Laden. Or that Thomas Muntzer is just like Napoleon. Killing an old extremist in a cave will not end this never ending stream of Islamic extremism.
 
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apdst said:
Poverty in the ME is older than Islam, itself. The whatever standard of living that exist in the ME, is of their own doing.
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This is very good. Now what?

It's very easy to state that they did this to themselves and close the book. Before 9/11 we could simply dismiss their social issues. But now? Things have become a little more international. There continued path will produce more 9/11s. And with nukes being the weapon of choice in the future? How many Americans have to die before people like you think more than the sophomorics of this issue?
 
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