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Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

Frankly, they can be if it isn't an emergency...

First untruth.

the federal patient-dumping law entitles you to three things: screening, emergency care and appropriate transfers. A hospital must provide "stabilizing care" for a patient with an emergency medical condition. The hospital must screen for the emergency and provide the care without inquiring about your ability to pay.

Know your emergency room rights - MSN Money

and if they aren't and can't pay, we pay one way or another.

Yep, we do pay through higher insurance rates, and hospital charges. However, that does not curtail their access as you claimed in the earlier post.

And believe it or not, many people really don't go because they know they can't pay for it.

This is their choice. The restriction of access in this case is self imposed.

You should spend some time in a free clinic if you can find one. My very conservative sister did in the Chicago area recently. She was shocked. If you do, I promise it will be an education.

Yep, I have a daughter that is 22 yrs old. and doesn't have health care, so when she gets sick, she either has to go and sit in the clinic for the entire day just to get some anti biotics, or pay to go to an outpatient care. Neither are good, but she still has access.

j-mac
 
No, they were involved in the smuggling. We turned a blind eye even though we knew. So, I ask again: So, anyone who does something wrong, like say the US government allowing Saddam to suggle oil, loses all ceredibility and can't be trusted, . . . is that what you're saying?



Show me proof of that
 
Frankly, they can be if it isn't an emergency, and if they aren't and can't pay, we pay one way or another. And believe it or not, many people really don't go because they know they can't pay for it. You should spend some time in a free clinic if you can find one. My very conservative sister did in the Chicago area recently. She was shocked. If you do, I promise it will be an education.


They can go to the free clinic

Can't be no worse then medicaid where you go to the county health department.
 
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They can go to the free clinic

Can't be no worse then medicaid where you go to the county health department.

You should visit one, especially in large cities, and you might well have an education.
 
Show me proof of that

I was unaware anyone didn't know this.

The US turned a blind eye to the former Iraq regime's $8bn trade in smuggled oil, a new US Senate report says.
The report says the US was well aware of both the smuggling and the kickbacks Iraq solicited from players in the UN's oil-for-food programme.


BBC NEWS | Americas | US 'ignored Iraq oil smuggling'

Documents obtained by CNN reveal the United States knew about, and even condoned, embargo-breaking oil sales by Saddam Hussein's regime, and did so to shore up alliances with Iraq's neighbors.

Documents: U.S. condoned Iraq oil smuggling - CNN

''The tendency has been to turn a blind eye because the Turks are benefiting from it at a time when the Turks are complaining anyway about sanctions on Iraq,'' one Administration official said. The smuggling is creating jobs and helping the economy of southern Turkey, which has been badly hurt by the trade sanctions. ''While Saddam is making money on it, the Turks and Kurds are too,'' the official said.

IRAQ IS SMUGGLING OIL TO THE TURKS UNDER GAZE OF U.S. - NYTimes.com
 
You should visit one, especially in large cities, and you might well have an education.

My son is on medicaid and goes to the county health department I have been there several times. The health care is sub standard, there are few specialist that take medicaid and the doctors at the health department are over worked.

My son is Autistic and medicaid does not cover dental. We are looking at a sedation dentist to have his teeth cleaned and checked. I have to take him for a surgery physical and put down a $2500 deposit. That does not include if he has cavities
 
I was unaware anyone didn't know this.

The US turned a blind eye to the former Iraq regime's $8bn trade in smuggled oil, a new US Senate report says.
The report says the US was well aware of both the smuggling and the kickbacks Iraq solicited from players in the UN's oil-for-food programme.


BBC NEWS | Americas | US 'ignored Iraq oil smuggling'

Documents obtained by CNN reveal the United States knew about, and even condoned, embargo-breaking oil sales by Saddam Hussein's regime, and did so to shore up alliances with Iraq's neighbors.

Documents: U.S. condoned Iraq oil smuggling - CNN

''The tendency has been to turn a blind eye because the Turks are benefiting from it at a time when the Turks are complaining anyway about sanctions on Iraq,'' one Administration official said. The smuggling is creating jobs and helping the economy of southern Turkey, which has been badly hurt by the trade sanctions. ''While Saddam is making money on it, the Turks and Kurds are too,'' the official said.

IRAQ IS SMUGGLING OIL TO THE TURKS UNDER GAZE OF U.S. - NYTimes.com

Not surprised the democrat leaked the documents. Notice it is the Clinton admiistration that turned the blind eye. It was the Bush Administraion that put a stop to it.
 
My son is on medicaid and goes to the county health department I have been there several times. The health care is sub standard, there are few specialist that take medicaid and the doctors at the health department are over worked.

My son is Autistic and medicaid does not cover dental. We are looking at a sedation dentist to have his teeth cleaned and checked. I have to take him for a surgery physical and put down a $2500 deposit. That does not include if he has cavities

That's better than a free clinic. And for many, that $2500 would be prohibative, and that means it would not be done.



FYI. Not sure where you live, but my wife works for a place here in Iowa called Opportunity Village.

Opportunity Village - Home
 
Not surprised the democrat leaked the documents. Notice it is the Clinton admiistration that turned the blind eye. It was the Bush Administraion that put a stop to it.

It was done before clinton if you read it. And republicans were also aware. And Bush didn't put an end to it until he decided to invade. But you're skipping the point. regardless of who was in power, that was the US government, so I ask again: does that mean that the US government can't be trusted?
 
That's better than a free clinic. And for many, that $2500 would be prohibative, and that means it would not be done.



FYI. Not sure where you live, but my wife works for a place here in Iowa called Opportunity Village.

Opportunity Village - Home

This is government healthcare. Welcome to Obama care. How is it better when you can not find a specialist that accept medicaid?
 
It was done before clinton if you read it. And republicans were also aware. And Bush didn't put an end to it until he decided to invade. But you're skipping the point. regardless of who was in power, that was the US government, so I ask again: does that mean that the US government can't be trusted?

From you NY Times link

But the Clinton Administration has decided not to try to stop the smuggling even though the United States is trying to hold together a coalition in support of economic sanctions against Iraq.

Pretty much I don't trust the government. Do you?
 
I was unaware anyone didn't know this.

The US turned a blind eye to the former Iraq regime's $8bn trade in smuggled oil, a new US Senate report says.
The report says the US was well aware of both the smuggling and the kickbacks Iraq solicited from players in the UN's oil-for-food programme.


BBC NEWS | Americas | US 'ignored Iraq oil smuggling'

So, Carl Levin with new found majority status felt it necessary to investigate what he says was known about US apathy to OIF? Doesn't make sense.

Documents obtained by CNN reveal the United States knew about, and even condoned, embargo-breaking oil sales by Saddam Hussein's regime, and did so to shore up alliances with Iraq's neighbors.

Documents: U.S. condoned Iraq oil smuggling - CNN

I see, so Jordan had no other viable alternative to Iraqi oil, and between them and Turkey were giving us intel on Iraq, so we should have cut them off. I see....Seems pretty thin if you ask me.

''The tendency has been to turn a blind eye because the Turks are benefiting from it at a time when the Turks are complaining anyway about sanctions on Iraq,'' one Administration official said. The smuggling is creating jobs and helping the economy of southern Turkey, which has been badly hurt by the trade sanctions. ''While Saddam is making money on it, the Turks and Kurds are too,'' the official said.

IRAQ IS SMUGGLING OIL TO THE TURKS UNDER GAZE OF U.S. - NYTimes.com

From your own article here: "The officials say the Clinton Administration has chosen to look the other way..."

So I think I get it....During that time the far left was screaming how we were starving the children of Iraq, and when the tide shifted and Bush came in and unseated Hussein, and caught that austere body, the UN, with their hand in the cookie jar, they had to look for scapegoats instead of admitting that they were, are, and continue to be corrupt. Got it.


j-mac
 
You should visit one, especially in large cities, and you might well have an education.

Yeah, it's a vision of what universal healthcare would end up like. No thanks.
 
From you NY Times link

But the Clinton Administration has decided not to try to stop the smuggling even though the United States is trying to hold together a coalition in support of economic sanctions against Iraq.

Pretty much I don't trust the government. Do you?

yes, Clinotn is part of it. I have nothing different. But don't excuse republicans who are also part of it.

And if you distrust government as you say, you ahve to distrust Bush and his reasons for war as well. I suspect you've very selective in your distrust. ;)
 
So, Carl Levin with new found majority status felt it necessary to investigate what he says was known about US apathy to OIF? Doesn't make sense.

:conused: It was reported in 1998? Carl was sure planning ahead.


I see, so Jordan had no other viable alternative to Iraqi oil, and between them and Turkey were giving us intel on Iraq, so we should have cut them off. I see....Seems pretty thin if you ask me.

If we thougth Saddam was a threat and him getting rich was the problem. Yes, if not, then the Iraq war makes no sense. but this is all meaningless to the point I'm making above. You could try and address that point, . . . if you can.


From your own article here: "The officials say the Clinton Administration has chosen to look the other way..."

So I think I get it....During that time the far left was screaming how we were starving the children of Iraq, and when the tide shifted and Bush came in and unseated Hussein, and caught that austere body, the UN, with their hand in the cookie jar, they had to look for scapegoats instead of admitting that they were, are, and continue to be corrupt. Got it.

Again, no where do I exclude Clinton here. So, you have no point that contradicts me here.
 
This is government healthcare. Welcome to Obama care. How is it better when you can not find a specialist that accept medicaid?

clearly the answer is to do what Obamacare did; and cut reimbursement rates by 27% so that neither specialists NOR general practicioners will accept medicaid, medicare, or tricare!


right?
 
Well, the "free" clinic is government run. How do you think it got that way?

No, few free clinics are "government run." Some may have some government aid, but they are starved of resources, and it is often those who fight such funding that starve them. Most are funded anyway they can be, through private donations, any government aid they can get, volunteers, pop cans, haiving docotros donate free samples, or any other aid they can get. They're pissing in the wind, of course, but for far too many, that is the best they can get.
 
No, few free clinics are "government run." Some may have some government aid, but they are starved of resources, and it is often those who fight such funding that starve them. Most are funded anyway they can be, through private donations, any government aid they can get, volunteers, pop cans, haiving docotros donate free samples, or any other aid they can get. They're pissing in the wind, of course, but for far too many, that is the best they can get.

You ofcourse have documentation of this, No? You really wouldn't expect us to just take your word for it? Nah, not you Joe....

j-mac
 
You ofcourse have documentation of this, No? You really wouldn't expect us to just take your word for it? Nah, not you Joe....

j-mac

They accomplish this through the use of volunteer health professionals and community volunteers, along with partnerships with other health providers.” Some free clinics rival local government health departments in size and scope of service with multi-million dollar budgets, specialized clinics and numerous locations.

Free clinic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The clinics receive as much as $17,000 per year from the cities where they are located, but are funded primarily with donations coming from private foundations, corporations and local church and civic groups. The Danbury clinic is also helped by a partnership with Ridgefield-based Boehringer Ingelheim, a pharmaceutical company, that gives medication and medical products.

Free clinics hit with more patients, less funding - Health - Health care - msnbc.com

The clinics' average operating budget was $287,810. A total of 58.7% received no government funding. Funding was most often through charitable donations (90.6%), civic groups (66.8%), churches (66.3%), foundations (65.1%), and corporations (55.1%).

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/723562

The Obstacles

Resources, resources, resources. Every free clinic is in need of more resources. And the hardest thing to come by is often physician specialists. The complex medical problems these patients present require consultations with specialists with limited availability for this population. The patients’ common conditions create a constant need for general surgeons, orthopedists, gynecologists, cardiologists, gastroenterologists, urologists, endocrinologists, dermatologists and psychiatrists, among others. When these specialists are unavailable, there is often no alternative to sending the patient to a local emergency room—an expensive, inefficient approach.

Another source of frustration is that because there are not many specialists available, not only do the patients miss their expertise, so do I. At the clinic I work at, I think I may have observed a pattern of a benign, but unusual liver condition in many of the patients who are Russian emigres. It should not affect their health in any way, but if it is an actual finding and not a coincidence, it suggests there may be a genetic predisposition in that population, something not described in the medical literature. It’s an interesting hypothesis, but one that is not likely to be tested simply because the resources and personnel are not available to do so. Little things like that make you miss the resources of the major medical center.
Other resources are commonly in short supply—testing equipment, bandages and minor surgical instruments. Once I worked in a treatment room where someone had donated some medical textbooks that were available for reference. Unfortunately, a 1946 edition of Common Surgical Problems and a 1949 copy of Gynecology for the General Practitioner were of little help.

Chicago Life
 
You ofcourse have documentation of this, No? You really wouldn't expect us to just take your word for it? Nah, not you Joe....

j-mac

J, if you want something, just ask for it. :coffeepap
 
Not true. No one gets turned away unless it is determined that they are just looking for a warm bed for the night, which happens.

I know several doctors, and the liability is just too high to turn people away, even if someone comes in with a bad bruise.

You are 100% WRONG. Its been doccumented on just not the news but VIA other media outlets. Another example of the Conservatives not knowing reality.
 
WHY... do people insist on touting the UN rankings, when they are a freaking decade old, and the UN doesn;t even bother anymore?!?!?!!!

I have only challenged people to offer any objective (or even subjective) evidence to the contrary. You can't...... Its a typical "head-in-the-sand" conservative response that cannot comprehend the US being 2nd rate on anything. However, until you can look yourself in the mirror and do an honest self-assessment and see you strengths and your shortcomings, you are 2nd rate. The US healthcare system, in terms of delivering quality healthcare to its citizens IS 2nd rate by any objective measure. It costs more than any other in the world and produces mediocre results.

Life_expectancy_vs_spending_OECD.jpg

I await a more sophisticated response than "the UN isn't credible", if you can.
 
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