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Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

ptif219 said:
Wrong medicaid is for the poor. Emergency rooms must see you. to say no medical care is available is a lie
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That is only for emergencies. People do go with out proper care on a regular basis. Sorry, but you're confusing things.
 
Boo Radley said:
That is only for emergencies. People do go with out proper care on a regular basis. Sorry, but you're confusing things.
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no you are. if you are poor get medicaid. otherwise make healthcare a priority or go without it is your choice. drugstores like CVS and Walgreens now have nurse practitioners on staff. People make their own choices you are distorting that.
 
ptif219 said:
no you are. if you are poor get medicaid. otherwise make healthcare a priority or go without it is your choice. drugstores like CVS and Walgreens now have nurse practitioners on staff. People make their own choices you are distorting that.
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I'm sorry, but medicaid does not cover all who can't afford healthcare. It only covers the very poor. And nurse practioners is not enough, nor adequate enough to cover all the needs. Hell, I know more than the nurse parctioner I recently saw at Wlagreens, and that is not saying much.
 
Boo Radley said:
I'm sorry, but medicaid does not cover all who can't afford healthcare. It only covers the very poor. And nurse practioners is not enough, nor adequate enough to cover all the needs. Hell, I know more than the nurse parctioner I recently saw at Wlagreens, and that is not saying much.
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So you set the standards? You distort this because many choose not to get insurance. I seldom go to doctors does that mean I fit into your problem even though I have my own insurance?
 
ptif219 said:
So you set the standards? You distort this because many choose not to get insurance. I seldom go to doctors does that mean I fit into your problem even though I have my own insurance?
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No, the numebrs say this. Sure, some make a choice, but not all. And some choose wrong, and we pay for them when the do. And no, you have insurance, so if you're stupid, you and your insurance company can deal with it. It you didn't have insurance, and you were stupid, you'd go to the er and I and others would pick up the tab one way or another.

But don't confuse two separate issues. The fact is many work but can't afford insurance. They can't afford care. And they aare left in the middle, with no good option.
 
j-mac said:
Compromise to a radical liberal like Obama always means dropping your opposition, and seeing things his way.

j-mac
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Typical, useless, pandering, fallacious, conservative comment.
 
Boo Radley said:
No, the numebrs say this. Sure, some make a choice, but not all. And some choose wrong, and we pay for them when the do. And no, you have insurance, so if you're stupid, you and your insurance company can deal with it. It you didn't have insurance, and you were stupid, you'd go to the er and I and others would pick up the tab one way or another.

But don't confuse two separate issues. The fact is many work but can't afford insurance. They can't afford care. And they aare left in the middle, with no good option.
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The fact is you are showing you are just another elitist lefty that thinks he knows what is best for everyone else. Keep talking we see what you are. This attitude by the left is turning us into a police state
 
Jetboogieman said:
Now I understand your point about government involvement.

Yes, I can see it all clearly now.

Life_expectancy_vs_spending_OECD.png


You spend more then any other country on Health Care, and get worse results...

Who's sustainable?

(aren't you guys almost fully bankrupt?)
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On the other hand, we also have the most screwed up legal system which forces doctors to do stupid CYA things and run up medical costs. When you do health for profit, it is not in the best interests of the system to keep people healthy. The system only profits when people are sick. I don't understand why so-called capitalist conservatives can't understand the simple concept that the financial motivations of the current health care system are in opposition to having people be healthy.
 
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zip98053 said:
On the other hand, we also have the most screwed up legal system which forces doctors to do stupid CYA things and run up medical costs. When you do health for profit, it is not in the best interests of the system to keep people healthy. The system only profits when people are sick. I don't understand why so-called capitalist conservatives can't understand the simple concept that the financial motivations of the current health care system are in opposition to having people be healthy.
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How does Obama care change that?
 
ptif219 said:
It appears Obama is not willing to compromise. Yet he expects others to

Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts | Reuters

With time running out and high political and economic stakes, Obama is pushing Democratic leaders to determine if they can win an acceptable extension of the cuts, which he could sign into law.

Resurgent Republicans are demanding that all the tax cuts be renewed, including those for wealthier Americans -- individuals making more than $200,000 and families above$250,000.

Obama favors renewing the tax cuts only for those at or below those level, saying the nation cannot afford to renew them for wealthier Americans.
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An Obama is right. Seems that the conservative definition of "compromise" is "do it my way". Obama needs to stand up to the people who do nothing but demand compromise and even when a compromise if offered, it isn't enough. It will never be enough for the dogmatic Republicans and Obama needs to side with the major of Americans who believe that, given the excessive deficit, letting the tax cuts for the wealthy laps is the right thing to do.

Poll: Most Americans Want Tax Cuts for the Rich to Expire - Political Hotsheet - CBS News


The Plum Line - New poll: Tax cut fight is winner for Dems in battleground states


Gallup poll finds majority favor ending tax cuts for the rich - The Hill's On The Money

It will be a very interesting game of chicken. Obama will accept extensions for everyone but the wealthy and the Republicans hold out for the wealthy. If the cuts laps because of the lack of "compromise" who is going to get skewered? Not Obama. The Republicans refusal to compromise on this issue at the expense of the vast majority of Americans probably will not sit all that well with the 95% of people who will see their taxes go up because the Republicans are looking out for their wealthy buddies (and themselves).
 
ptif219 said:
How does Obama care change that?
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It doesn't change the legal system. However, it does encourage health. Just like my medical plan at work. They are starting to spend on preventative medicine. Get everyone on insurance, then the insurance people will be encouraged to keep people healthy. There are protections in Obamacare to make sure that the insurance companies do not get to sacrifice people's health for the profit of the insurance companies. It would be leas of a problem if there was a single-payer system or even a public option so that we did not have to so closely monitor the insurance folks.

Obamacare does a lot to re-balance the financial equation to emphasize health and not health care. Keeping people healthy is much less expensive than caring for them when they are sick.

On the negative side, there's all those extra years of social security that they will be collecting.
 
American said:
We get increased life expectancy through death panels. :ssst:
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How clever of you. Nothing like repeating a cliché from Sarah who doesn't even know that the so called "death panel" is end of life counseling that was first proposed by a Republican Senator. Damn Republicans complain when the Democrats don't do what they want and they complain when they do.

Seems that Republicans are more interested in spreading lies than seeking the truth.

Sarah Palin's 'Death Panels' "Lie of the Year" - Associated Content from Yahoo! - associatedcontent.com
 
zip98053 said:
An Obama is right. Seems that the conservative definition of "compromise" is "do it my way". Obama needs to stand up to the people who do nothing but demand compromise and even when a compromise if offered, it isn't enough. It will never be enough for the dogmatic Republicans and Obama needs to side with the major of Americans who believe that, given the excessive deficit, letting the tax cuts for the wealthy laps is the right thing to do.

Poll: Most Americans Want Tax Cuts for the Rich to Expire - Political Hotsheet - CBS News


The Plum Line - New poll: Tax cut fight is winner for Dems in battleground states


Gallup poll finds majority favor ending tax cuts for the rich - The Hill's On The Money

It will be a very interesting game of chicken. Obama will accept extensions for everyone but the wealthy and the Republicans hold out for the wealthy. If the cuts laps because of the lack of "compromise" who is going to get skewered? Not Obama. The Republicans refusal to compromise on this issue at the expense of the vast majority of Americans probably will not sit all that well with the 95% of people who will see their taxes go up because the Republicans are looking out for their wealthy buddies (and themselves).
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class warfare is the dem elites stock in trade. people who don't pay taxes should have no say in the rates of income tax others pay.
 
TurtleDude said:
class warfare is the dem elites stock in trade. people who don't pay taxes should have no say in the rates of income tax others pay.
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First, it is actually the Republicans who are the champions of class warfare. They conduct it and it is the Democrats who try to keep the wealthy from winning the battle. So far, the Republicans have done a much better job of conducting the class warfare as is evidence from the growing gap between the rich and poor in this country.

Next, I pay taxes, and I'm in the group of people would have to pay more under the Obama plan. I say, let them laps.

Finally, Congress decides about taxes. All the voters get to do is elect the members of Congress. I suspect that if Congress doesn't behave sensibly, the voters will take action, just like they did this year.
 
zimmer said:
ROTFLOL... you might THINK you're not a socialist, but you line up on that side over, and over and over.

It must be terrible when you've been fooling yourself and are the last person to know the truth about yourself. But you're young. You've got time to learn about yourself.

As for Universal Healthcare, it is a vile socialist program where the government acts as an intermediary to remove wealth from one group and give it to another. It's slow, corrupt, centralized and inefficient. It's why the Quebec Supreme Court ruled waiting lists do not constitute care. And why Kanuckistani's go to the US for serious and not so serious medical conditions. All this rot in not too many decades!!! OH! Kanuckistan!

Milton Friedman called pre-ObamaKare "communist" in nature.

Welcome to your Socialist Outing Party!

As for your little chart, Americans try to and do save lives that other countries call lost causes.

J-Mac,
Not only countries have found the system unsustainable, slow and corrupt, but it's been the bane of auto companies in the US.



.
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You can't be a socialist and also a communist.
 
zip98053 said:
First, it is actually the Republicans who are the champions of class warfare. They conduct it and it is the Democrats who try to keep the wealthy from winning the battle. So far, the Republicans have done a much better job of conducting the class warfare as is evidence from the growing gap between the rich and poor in this country.

Next, I pay taxes, and I'm in the group of people would have to pay more under the Obama plan. I say, let them laps.

Finally, Congress decides about taxes. All the voters get to do is elect the members of Congress. I suspect that if Congress doesn't behave sensibly, the voters will take action, just like they did this year.
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thanks for that admission. the rich prosper because they engage in behaviour that society finds valuable be it investing, playing a guitar, throwing a baseball, making a movie, or building a company that sells a product many want. That isn't committing warfare against the poor anymore than a hard working student getting an A average is waging war against the slackers and dullards who can manage only a D avereage. You admit that the dems then try to keep the wealthy from "winning" meaning the dems try to handicap and hamstring those who wn.

Let them laps? OMG

And you are naive if you think that tax policy doesn't influence how people vote. If it didn't, your dem masters wouldn't constantly whine that the rich need to pay more taxes.
 
zip98053 said:
I'm disinclined to become involved in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.
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its funny but many liberals have this attitude towards those of us who don't need the government to take care of us. How is craving a nanny state indicative of intelligence?
 
TurtleDude said:
thanks for that admission. the rich prosper because they engage in behavior that society finds valuable be it investing, playing a guitar, throwing a baseball, making a movie, or building a company that sells a product many want. That isn't committing warfare against the poor anymore than a hard working student getting an A average is waging war against the slackers and dullards who can manage only a D average. You admit that the dems then try to keep the wealthy from "winning" meaning the dems try to handicap and hamstring those who wn.
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Nice misdirection. This isn't about the small percentage of folks who are in the entertainment or even those folks who build a company from scratch. There are too few of them to matter. This is about those folks who make money by moving money. It is about those folks who invent new investment schemes and get some rating company to declare it investment grade so that people like me who just want some safe place for their 401K dollars to go will invest, even though the investment is garbage. It is about those CEOs who have their pay set by other CEOs and who get inflated salaries so that it becomes the norm, for CEOs. It is about the hedge fund managers who get to claim all their income is capital gains. Fundamentally, it is about all those assholes who took the economy to the brink so that they could make a buck. I want to see them taxed. I am willing to pay more just to see those bastards pay more.

It is not true that people accumulate wealth because their contribution to society is of value to society. It is naive to think that there is a correlation.


Let them laps? OMG
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I would like to buy a vowel. (I'll also stop looking to correct your spelling mistakes and will be glad to ridicule you for a typo in the future).

And you are naive if you think that tax policy doesn't influence how people vote. If it didn't, your dem masters wouldn't constantly whine that the rich need to pay more taxes.
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I don't think that I said anything to imply that tax policy doesn't influence voting. I think that it affects voting quite a bit which is why I think that the Republicans might end up regretting their defense of the tax breaks for the wealthy.

I will admit that Democrats are fricking awful at finding the sound bytes that help them frame their arguments for the masses. The Republicans are much, much better at this. Instead of letting the Republican's frame this as a tax increase, the Democrats should call this what it is, a termination of the tax breaks for the wealthy.
 
TurtleDude said:
its funny but many liberals have this attitude toward those of us who don't need the government to take care of us. How is craving a nanny state indicative of intelligence?
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Why is if that so many conservatives think that, because they can't feel anything for anyone other than themselves, that no one else can either. The Constitution says "promote the general welfare" which means ALL of us.

I know that we aren't all given the same opportunities in this life. I also know that sometimes people need help. It is in my best interest that people are given help when they need it. It is cheaper to give people help when they need it than it is to defend myself from those people when they feel that they need to attack me for their survival.

I don't need the government to do anything for me, other than to make sure that people who will do anything to make money don't do something that will threaten my life or my nest egg.
 
zip98053 said:
An Obama is right. Seems that the conservative definition of "compromise" is "do it my way". Obama needs to stand up to the people who do nothing but demand compromise and even when a compromise if offered, it isn't enough. It will never be enough for the dogmatic Republicans and Obama needs to side with the major of Americans who believe that, given the excessive deficit, letting the tax cuts for the wealthy laps is the right thing to do.

Poll: Most Americans Want Tax Cuts for the Rich to Expire - Political Hotsheet - CBS News


The Plum Line - New poll: Tax cut fight is winner for Dems in battleground states


Gallup poll finds majority favor ending tax cuts for the rich - The Hill's On The Money

It will be a very interesting game of chicken. Obama will accept extensions for everyone but the wealthy and the Republicans hold out for the wealthy. If the cuts laps because of the lack of "compromise" who is going to get skewered? Not Obama. The Republicans refusal to compromise on this issue at the expense of the vast majority of Americans probably will not sit all that well with the 95% of people who will see their taxes go up because the Republicans are looking out for their wealthy buddies (and themselves).
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Obama has never compromised in fact he has a habit of shutting out the GOP
 
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