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Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

Depends on what you call worse. Cost is but half the equation. Paying more for more is better than paying more for less, which is where we are now. Though, before all is said and done, this may not actually cost more. We'll have to see what goes on from here.

Obama care will create a doctor shortage so things like MRI may take months to get. Then if Obama cuts medicare pay to doctors they will no longer accept it.
 
That is honestly the worst rebuttal to an argument I've ever heard. That might convince one of your children, but on a debate politics forum you're going to have to actual provide an educated rebuttal with some sources. Please list exactly what insurance companies are doing to "correct it", explain why a business would do anything that doesn't profit the company monetarily, and why their measures to correct the problem would be more effective than "Obamacare" in getting health care for children with preexisting conditions, making sure patience with terminal illnesses such as cancer can't get dropped from their plans.

Then you know nothing of health care insurance companies promoting healthy life styles and preventive care for the last few years
 
To give a tax break to the very wealthy is the DUMBEST thing this Country could do. Its like a Socialist handout! More of the Conservative Socialist crap they bash the OTHER side for. And how about those Socialist ear marks fropm the COnservatives?????
The majority of Conservatives are dishonerable liars that provide government handouts to the very wealthy.... the ones that generally DONT pay much around tax time because they hide their money or can AFFORD great tax guys they get them a refund. Dont tell me Im wrong! Ive seen it for OVER 20 F-in YEARS!!! Lying to the government or just not telling them about CERTAIN things. They are as bad as people on welfare!

They bitch.... GIVE ME! GIVE ME! More tax breaks! More business write-offs! Sure I already make $145,000 after taxes but I STILL WANT MORE!!!! GIVE ME! GIVE ME!


I vote for people that will give ME the sweet deals!! I know the Republicans will give me what I want! The Lobbyists will boost MY stock profile! The gov't will do things to make ME money!! But since I have lots of money and have a high paying job its NOT called Socialism..... I'll call it economic relief (from the gov't)!!!

Conservatives are Socialist. They want free stuff too!

Please discuss! :thumbs:
 
Obama care will create a doctor shortage so things like MRI may take months to get. Then if Obama cuts medicare pay to doctors they will no longer accept it.

Have you heard the Apocalypse is soon coming? Make sure your bomb shelter is ready for use. You'll need it soon.

All that is pure propaganda. I don't know about you but I don't want my children denied because they have pre-existing conditions. I don't want the insurance companies to wiggle out of coverage because of some fine print they conveniently forgot to mention. I don't want my kids in college to have pay through the nose for separate health insurance.
 
Obama care will create a doctor shortage so things like MRI may take months to get. Then if Obama cuts medicare pay to doctors they will no longer accept it.

LOOK folks..... I dont want universal healthcare!
But you Conserva-haters (copyrighted name) are like little girls running around screaming the sky is falling..... and BECAUSE ya'll are so frightened YOU may not get the same care you then.... like little girls start speading lies on the playground.
I just feel like its a total cry-baby bitch fest. Conservatives need to GROW A PAIR and man up.
Look the Canadian system works VERY well.... I have friends and family up there and they have had ZERO problem with the ER.... short-term and/or long-term care!

But I personally dont like MORE government unlike Republicans and Democrats.
 
Have you heard the Apocalypse is soon coming? Make sure your bomb shelter is ready for use. You'll need it soon.

All that is pure propaganda. I don't know about you but I don't want my children denied because they have pre-existing conditions. I don't want the insurance companies to wiggle out of coverage because of some fine print they conveniently forgot to mention. I don't want my kids in college to have pay through the nose for separate health insurance.

Thats the point we need a few regulations not a government take over. Obama care will make our healthcare system worse with long waiting lines
 
LOOK folks..... I dont want universal healthcare!
But you Conserva-haters (copyrighted name) are like little girls running around screaming the sky is falling..... and BECAUSE ya'll are so frightened YOU may not get the same care you then.... like little girls start speading lies on the playground.
I just feel like its a total cry-baby bitch fest. Conservatives need to GROW A PAIR and man up.
Look the Canadian system works VERY well.... I have friends and family up there and they have had ZERO problem with the ER.... short-term and/or long-term care!

But I personally dont like MORE government unlike Republicans and Democrats.

Healthcare was better here than in Canada that will not be the case when the government takes it over.

Comparison of the health care systems in Canada and the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

» Canadian Premier Comes to U.S. For Health Care - Big Government

Canadians visit U.S. to get health care | freep.com | Detroit Free Press
 
Wait Time Alliance — About Us

WAIT TIME ALLIANCE | Kids wait for surgery too

Canadian Wait Times Alliance Urges Speed in Reducing Health Care Wait Times in Canada

Shortage of Family Doctors Adds to Wait Times

Long wait times in N.S. for joint replacement - *News - MSN CA

there are 100's more

google "canadian health care wait time alliance cbc"

google "canadian health care wait time alliance canada online"

google "canadian health care doctor shortage"

etc

it's quite a problem above the parallel, apparently
 
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Compromise to a radical liberal like Obama always means dropping your opposition, and seeing things his way.

j-mac

Are you paying attention? Obama has compromised his position to the point he looks weak. The guy has had all the cards, yet continues to play like he has a weak hand. If Obama would have had 1/2 of the Bush swagger, he would not have lost the house and still have his job approval well north of 50%. Sorry, Obama;s idea of compromise is to fold.
 
Are you paying attention? Obama has compromised his position to the point he looks weak. The guy has had all the cards, yet continues to play like he has a weak hand. If Obama would have had 1/2 of the Bush swagger, he would not have lost the house and still have his job approval well north of 50%. Sorry, Obama;s idea of compromise is to fold.

Obama has not folded on anything, he has locked out the GOP and rammed his agenda forward. He no longer can do that since he lost his senate fillibuster proof majority and the house.
 
Obama care will create a doctor shortage so things like MRI may take months to get. Then if Obama cuts medicare pay to doctors they will no longer accept it.

Actually, the doctor shortage is artificial. And Obama's plan has in it some incentives to increase the number of doctors.
 
Obama has not folded on anything, he has locked out the GOP and rammed his agenda forward. He no longer can do that since he lost his senate fillibuster proof majority and the house.

That would not be entirely true. We don't have a public option, and the mandate was a republican idea he adopted. There are others. So, while at one point the republicans were locked out, having shown no real interest in working on this, it would not be true that concessions weren't made.
 
Actually, the doctor shortage is artificial. And Obama's plan has in it some incentives to increase the number of doctors.

Seriously? Do you read what you write?

Either the shortage is real or Obama is wasting everyone's time and money with unnecessary incentives.

Which is it?
 
Seriously? Do you read what you write?

Either the shortage is real or Obama is wasting everyone's time and money with unnecessary incentives.

Which is it?

There's a shortage because we limit how many can go to medical school. Do a basic search and you'll find that I'm right. This healthcare bill has incentives to increase the number. Remember, there are seldom just two options. ;)
 


Interesting part of the article:

A list of about 500 concierge doctors throughout the country is available on Dr. Knope’s Web site, www.conciergemedicinemd.com.
Is the care worth the money? Harold and Margret Thomas, who are in their mid-70s and live in Cincinnati, spend the winter in Tucson. After many phone calls, the couple were unable to find an internist in Tucson who took new Medicare patients, so they signed with Dr. Knope in 1996. Five years ago, when Mrs. Thomas developed a blinding headache, her husband called the doctor at 8 o’clock one night, and he, suspecting an aneurysm, insisted they get to the emergency room immediately.
The doctor met them and ordered an M.R.I. and a CT scan. The tests revealed an aneurysm, and Dr. Knope found a surgeon who quickly operated. Medicare paid for the emergency room, the surgery and the hospital stay.
 
That would not be entirely true. We don't have a public option, and the mandate was a republican idea he adopted. There are others. So, while at one point the republicans were locked out, having shown no real interest in working on this, it would not be true that concessions weren't made.

It is true Obama got what he wanted and it is a bad bill
 
Now I understand your point about government involvement.

Yes, I can see it all clearly now.

Life_expectancy_vs_spending_OECD.png


You spend more then any other country on Health Care, and get worse results...

Who's sustainable?

(aren't you guys almost fully bankrupt?)


Clever, who is that little disingenuous graph from? The UN and its skewed report? yeah ok, go socialism on a global scale! Right?

j-mac
 
Clever, who is that little disingenuous graph from? The UN and its skewed report? yeah ok, go socialism on a global scale! Right?

j-mac

You should really learn what socialism is. I'm just saying. :coffeepap
 

You do realize this is nothing more than an opinion piece, right? Allow me to give you some reading in return:

One of the basic distinctions which Fein makes in the first chapter of his monograph on the physician shortage is that measuring the supply of physicians is one thing and measuring the supply of physician's services is quite another. From this distinction he derives the hypothesis that increasing the number of physicians is not necessarily the best solution to the current manpower problem. The remaining four chapters test this hypothesis by defining the terms of the physician manpower controversy, summarizing past arguments, and placing the manpower problem in a meaningful context of demand and supply.

JAMA -- Excerpt: The Doctor Shortage: An Economic Diagnosis, November 20, 1967, Balfe 202 (8): 849

THE NATIONAL shortage of physicians continues to receive widespread attention. Although many people agree there are locations in need of physicians, it has been difficult to determine satisfactorily the total national need for additional physicians.

JAMA -- Excerpt: Is There A Doctor Shortage?, March 25, 1974, Cooper 227 (12): 1410

Since AMA's creation of the Council a century ago, the U.S. population (75 million in 1900, 288 million in 2002) has increased in size by 284%, yet the number of medical schools has declined by 26% to 123.[8] [9] In terms of admissions limits, the peak year for applicants at U.S. schools was 1996 at 47,000 applications with a limit of 16,500 accepted. [10] This works out to roughly 64% of applications rejected. [11] On a micro level, for the last six years the University of Alabama (hardly a beacon of prestige in the medical discipline) has averaged about 1,498 applicants per year with an average of about 194 accepted. This is about an 87% rejection rate. The sizes of the entering classes have been of course even smaller, averaging about 161.

AMA would likely argue that there's nothing necessarily wrong with very high rejection rates. This is correct, except for the fact that these rates are being applied to pools of candidates who are cream-of-the-crop in quality and have put themselves through a very costly admissions process. [12] Current admissions practices could still be justified by what Milton Friedman (1982, p. 153) refers to as a "Cadillac standard." (Getting away from the pop-culture anachronisms of the 1960s, let's say "Lexus standard" a la the government decides that every driver today deserves nothing less than Lexus quality.) Applied to health care, the benefits of a Lexus standard could supposedly offset the costs of rejecting many ostensibly qualified applicants.

100 Years of Medical Robbery - Dale Steinreich - Mises Daily
 
No, he didn't. He wanted a public option. What we ahve is the compromise.

What we have is a bill that took bribes, lies, parliamentary tricks, and passage without even being read... even after MA voted Brown in to send a message to the Dems.

Milton Friedman called the pre-ObamaKare healthcare system Communist in nature, but ObamaKare doesn't rise to the level of socialist?
LA: Is there an area here in the United States in which we have not been as aggressive as we should in promoting property rights and free markets?

MF: Yes, in the field of medical care. We have a socialist-communist system of distributing medical care...

Hillsdale College - Imprimis Issue

And what compromise? ROTFLOL...
The House voted 219 to 212 to approve the measure, with every Republican voting no.
The 34 Democratic defectors...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/21/AR2010032100943.html

.
 
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